BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?

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Dinah-sore

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I don't even know where to begin or what to say or how to make sense of this, and I need to post, but I also can't freaking remember half of what just happened.

I talked to BPDm on the phone. She wanted to know if we could get together tonight for dinner. I said not tonight; I have other plans and we are not ready yet. I was super pleasant. She started crying hard. Telling me that I don't want anything to do with her, that I am pushing her out of my life, I am hurting her. We used to go to dinner regularly every week one night at least. We haven't done that regularly in more than a year; it has become maybe a once a month type thing, because she was tired, and we would get busy, etc. We went a few weeks ago, when she totally gaslighted my DD and I left frustrated and couldn't remember what happened. But tonight, she decided that I am the one bailing on her.

Then she brought up that I didn't read something that she wrote last week, and I had told her that day she asked me that I was super busy. She got all mad and said that she ALWAYS reads things that I write, which I don't dump things on her last minute. And it is very very rare that I ask her to read something for me. It has been maybe once in the last year. But I was busy.

She said a lot of things about how my personality and actions are hurting her. She cried so freaking hard. And I was mad, because it got me mad. So I probably had a raised voice (stern, not abusive), telling her over and over and over "I am not doing anything intentionally to hurt you." She mentioned that I haven't "liked" anything on her facebook for over a month. I have no clue what she is talking about. It may be subconscious. But again I say, "I am not doing anything intentionally to hurt you."

She said that she loves me so much and she thinks about me 24 hours a day, and I don't care about her. She says she wants to be as close as we used to be and asked me if I could try harder to call her.

I said I don't want to have a relationship with her out of obligation like that. That I want to call her because I love her and want to talk to her, not because she cries and makes me feel guilty (was that okay to say?). I reminded her that I called her yesterday. She said that when I called her yesterday, I didn't talk to her about her life and ask her questions about her weekend.

She mentioned that we don't get coffee anymore. I pointed out that I have been very busy. She then snapped at me when I listed my activities (when I Jaded), and said, "I know what you do!" A

She pressed and pressed and I finally mentioned that I get frustrated because a lot of times when we are together she is very grumpy. She said that the reason she is grumpy is because she has to walk on eggshells with me because I have pulled away so much. (okay, my thoughts on this--1. this felt like she was blaming her grumpiness on me. 2. If she thinks I am pulling away, wouldn't she try being nicer?)

I think what she really wants if for me to become enmeshed again. She mentioned how I used to tell her everything and include her in all aspects of my life. I have pulled away, but you guys know, not even enough for my own health. I am sure if any of you remember any of my other posts, you remember that many of you have told me I need to pull away even more than I have.

I finally told her that the conversation was making me sick to my stomach, that we see things different, that I heard her and will pray and think about what she shared with me. But that I don't want to take on blame for things that I am not doing to hurt her. I also don't want to make promises to make more contact with her. We got off the phone with her still crying.

All because I said we couldn't get dinner tonight. Like I have done at least 25 times this year. Like she has also done, when she is tired after work and just wants to go home. It isn't like a regular thing anymore.

I did tell her that I am sick of her crying and implying I should feel guilty when I go a day without talking to her.

I was just getting to the place where I thought we were finding a new normal. Where we don't talk everyday, often throughout the day. Where I can kind of find out who I am apart from her and find some peace.

She freaking told me that she is upset that I go to the store without her. She cried and said that I used to call her and ask her to go to the store together. Are you kidding me? I am not supposed to go to the store on my own? I only have a few memories of going to the store with her. I have gone to the store at least 2-3 times a week for YEARS on my own. I think part of it is that I spent the day this weekend with a friend of mine. Who is very close to me, but this week we had the very rare opportunity to spend time together without our kids and husbands. We had a girls day (which is why I was too busy to read what she wrote) and she may feel jealous? But I see her often still! You guys know this, because I usually come here to complain after! LOL.

I didn't grey rock or medium chill. I argued. I rejected. I don't know.

She will use it against me as evidence that I am rejecting her. When she cries, I argue. She says that this is killing her.

I believe she is hurting, but do you also think that the crying is intended to get me to enmesh again. And that it makes it worse when I don't, when she can tell instead of me fawning, I get upset. How do I handle this stuff. Because I must not be doing something right, since she keeps doing this to me.

She just texted me about this again. :(
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 11:00:31 PM by Dinah-sore »
"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

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Dinah-sore

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2017, 11:09:41 PM »
The worst part of this is that she knows I have plans later this evening with my family. And she pulls this while i am getting ready. Now I am so freaking dizzy and having some kind of anxiety attack or emotional flashback. So dizzy. And here writing about this, when I need to be putting my make up on and getting ready to leave. Because of this, I haven't even had dinner at home yet. My kids are hungry. I need to go feed them real quick, but it just sucks that she didn't get her way, so instead of letting me off the phone so I could get ready, and eat dinner at home real quick and enjoy the evening. She has to park it on the phone and cry and bring up every possible thing I have done wrong to her for 20-30 minutes. And leave me in a state where I can't just get off the phone and put my thoughts and feelings aside. I feel like I got hit by an emotional freight train. Boom. I got to stuff it all down now and get moving. On my dizzy way.
"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

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VividImagination

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2017, 11:35:52 PM »
You are not responsible for your mother's feelings. You are not responsible for your mother's feelings.

Repeat after me. You are not responsible for your mother's feelings.

To PDs, feelings are facts. If she FEELS that you aren't doing X, then that means you aren't doing X. Period. No proof, no arguing, no JADEing on your part will change it. It is her reality.

She feels that every time you went to the store in the past twenty years, she accompanied you. This is what happened in her disordered mind (or what she is using to gaslight you). The fact that you actually went to the store most of the time without her is meaningless. In her mind, THAT NEVER HAPPENED, and you are pulling away from her emotionally by selecting your own produce.

You cannot change her "reality" by discussing it, arguing, or presenting facts. She is mired in her own emotional waste cesspool and will never get free, and she is intent on dragging you back into it with her. You aren't sharing every minute detail of your life with her. YES! This is called GROWING UP, and you are finally doing it well into adulthood!

First off, don't tell her your plans, so she can't get jealous. Second off, it's always going to be your fault in her mind, even though it's not. Third, don't answer the phone or look at her texts before you're going out or doing something fun with her family. She will ruin it with a tantrum...you learned that lesson tonight.

You are too "available". Pull back some more. She is going to have to adjust to the new normal. If you only answer her calls, look at her texts, and visit with her when YOU want to, what can she do to you? Take your keys? Ground you? Spank you?

That's right...you're 40+ years old. There is NOTHING she can do.
There are three solutions to every problem: accept it, change it, or leave it. If you cannot accept it, change it. I f you cannot change it, leave it.

Sometimes you're damned if you don't and damned if you do, so damn well do what's best for you.

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MIB

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2017, 11:44:10 PM »
I am often guilty of what it sounds like you did - say on the phone and JADE, hoping your rational arguments will make sense. They don't and won't to her, and it seems to just make things worse.  :stars:

Do yourself a favour (and I promise you and me that I'm going to do the same in future if/when I talk to my parents next) - set a timer for 10 mins and get off the phone when it rings ("love you Mom, but I really need to go..."), and if they start to get blamey/mad etc, get off the phone ASAP ("it sounds like you're upset, let's talk when you're feeling better").

And the previous poster is right - you aren't responsible for her feelings. As long as you're doing the best you can to be calm and polite, you're doing your best :).  Hugs

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practical

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2017, 11:44:28 PM »
Quote
Because I must not be doing something right, since she keeps doing this to me.
It is her pushing your boundaries. She is refusing to accept them and so comes up with different strategies, today it was crying and blaming you for her hurt. She may continue to do so, and you may continue to have to stand your ground for quite some more. If she is hurt and I don't doubt she is, she has to help herself. By clinging onto you like a barnacle for life support, she is disabling herself, hurting herself. The kind of enmeshment she wants is neither healthy nor normal, for neither of you. You aren't doing anything wrong, you are individuating which should have happened in your teenage years.

Quote
I feel like I got hit by an emotional freight train. Boom.
You were, and you were having an emotional concussion.

Sorry, I have to run myself, just wanted to let you know you did well, setting and defending boundaries is hard work. Maybe the next time when she starts crying this could be your cue to get of the phone? "M, you are clearly upset, why don't we talk another time when you feel better?" - yes, it will be held against you as further evidence, - but so is pretty much anything short of you going back to being enmeshed daughter -, and at least you don't have to engage in an argument, listen to her guilt trips etc. It will also make it clear to her that this strategy isn't working. And if you cannot say that, simply tell her your kids need you, which would have been absolutely true tonight and a very good reason to get off the phone.

And absolutely what VividImagination suggested, don't pick up her calls, look at her messages when you are busy, need to focus on your own life. Maybe let her calls go to VM and check them later and let her texts get separated too, so you only deal with them when you have the energy to do so? None of these are emergencies, so putting her stuff aside and focusing on your stuff is an important step out of her reach.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 11:49:21 PM by practical »
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all4peace

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2017, 12:17:00 AM »
I can't remember, do you see a therapist? Is this a possibility? Could you consider finding an excellent therapist who can help you work on boundaries, tools for dealing with your M, and anything else that might be helpful?

This forum has been amazing, but sometimes it's pretty powerful to have a professional tell you that your parents' behavior is NOT normal and that you have the right to set boundaries, and then help you figure out how to do so.

I'm really sorry you have to deal with this. I can only imagine how upsetting and exhausting it must be.

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daughterofbpd

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2017, 12:28:45 AM »
I know it doesn't feel like it but I think you did really great. It sounds like you validated her feelings but also refused to take responsibility for HER feelings. The one thing I would do differently was to stop the conversation right in the beginning "Mom, I'm sorry that you are upset but I have plans tonight and need to get ready. I promise we can discuss this tomorrow night." I know that's hard to do because your mom was upset, but really, she's upset much of the time anyway so you've just gotta let go and let her deal with it. She is the only one that can make herself feel better.

I bet you are spot on about you M being jealous of your time spent with your friend.

Have you read "Walking on Eggshells"? I think the things you said were spot on with the advice in that book.

I know this is difficult but you are doing great! Take care and try to enjoy your evening.
How starved you must have been that my heart became a meal for your ego
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WomanInterrupted

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2017, 02:17:10 AM »
I think you did remarkably well, especially in that this is starting to *anger* you.

Anger is a perfectly normal reaction to her overblown performance - and I do mean that.  It's a PERFORMANCE.   :dramaqueen:

People like unBPD Didi and your mom are *extremely* manipulative, devious and utterly shameless when it comes to getting what they want - they'll pull out ALL the stops, like calling you before you're going to do something with your FOC, to make sure she ruins it for you, because you *ruined* her night by choosing them over her, proving, in her feelings-are-facts mind, that you don't love her.

Vivid's  post is spot-on, as usual - and she gives some great advice.   8-)

Don't answer every call.  You don't have to.  There's no law that says, "Thou must pick up thine phone when thine mom calls."

If you don't want to call her back for a week - don't call her back for a week. 

If she shows up?  Make sure your locks are changed and locked and she doesn't have a key.  She can stand outside and bang on the door until she either gets tired, or you get sick of it and call the cops on her.

And I *would* call the cops on her because maybe she'll learn a bloody lesson about not hassling the living hell out of you on a constant basis.   >:(

Yes - if you haven't changed your locks, I recommend you do it.  No more of this just walking in stuff for her. 

Call her back when *you* feel emotionally ready to handle it and if she gets upset?  Tell her you can't talk to her when she gets like this and end the call, whether she's still crying or not.

If, for some reason, you goof and tell her you're doing something or going somewhere and she calls right before you're about to do/go - *definitely* don't pick up the phone.  Call her later, when you *feel you can handle it.*   :yes:

Tell her absolutely *nothing* about your comings and goings, your life, the things you do, the places you go - none of it.  It's just going to come back to bite you on the hiney and be used against you in another, "You don't love me!" rant.

You know what really strikes me?  Your mom cannot accept you GREW UP and no longer need her constant input, approval, love, attention, affirmation - not that you got any of that from her while you were growing up, because in her mind, she's The World's Most Perfect Mother and you'll never convince her otherwise.   :stars:

She wants her Little Dinah Sore back and that's just not possible, so she's determined to emotionally hobble you by overreacting to everything and act like a jealous suitor about your independent adult life and *time spent with your FOC.*

I honestly think if this woman could suture herself to you, she would!   :aaauuugh:

And that's NOT normal and it's *definitely* unhealthy.    She calls it anxiety? 

Hon, I've got other words:  You have an OBSESSIVE STALKER for a mother.

If you tell me she's got a shrine to you in your old bedroom, I'd start getting *very* worried.   :spooked:

Another thing that stands out is she does not trust ANY decision you make - hence the GPS, the possible keylogger on your computer (please have that checked, ASAP), the desire to track your DH, needing to know every little detail of your life so she can comment, etc...

You know what that says to me?  On some level, she knows she was a TERRIBLE mother, and because she was such a terrible mother, you could fling the door open, not look both ways before crossing the street and run right out in to traffic while holding scissors!   :roll:

Because she did such a terrible job, she's convinced you could DIE at almost every moment, because of her failure to teach you how to survive - and instead of trusting you've figured it all out, she wants to micro-manage and *babysit* you.

Because you could DIE!  And she is obsessive and *extremely nosy.*

That's another part of the puzzle, I think - disguised under the word "anxiety."

She's just plain nosy.   :roll:

I'd like you to try something - go back and read some of your posts, but pretend they were written by somebody else.  Every time you see the word "mother" or "mom", replace it with "boyfriend."

Maybe you'll start to see the situation in a new light.

 :hug:

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Dinah-sore

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2017, 02:47:00 AM »
You are not responsible for your mother's feelings. You are not responsible for your mother's feelings.

Repeat after me. You are not responsible for your mother's feelings.

To PDs, feelings are facts. If she FEELS that you aren't doing X, then that means you aren't doing X. Period. No proof, no arguing, no JADEing on your part will change it. It is her reality.

She feels that every time you went to the store in the past twenty years, she accompanied you. This is what happened in her disordered mind (or what she is using to gaslight you). The fact that you actually went to the store most of the time without her is meaningless. In her mind, THAT NEVER HAPPENED, and you are pulling away from her emotionally by selecting your own produce.

You cannot change her "reality" by discussing it, arguing, or presenting facts. She is mired in her own emotional waste cesspool and will never get free, and she is intent on dragging you back into it with her. You aren't sharing every minute detail of your life with her. YES! This is called GROWING UP, and you are finally doing it well into adulthood!

First off, don't tell her your plans, so she can't get jealous. Second off, it's always going to be your fault in her mind, even though it's not. Third, don't answer the phone or look at her texts before you're going out or doing something fun with her family. She will ruin it with a tantrum...you learned that lesson tonight.

You are too "available". Pull back some more. She is going to have to adjust to the new normal. If you only answer her calls, look at her texts, and visit with her when YOU want to, what can she do to you? Take your keys? Ground you? Spank you?

That's right...you're 40+ years old. There is NOTHING she can do.

I saw this comment before the event I went to tonight started. And just reading you repeat "You are not responsible for your mother's feelings" over and over again, helped calm me down. Thank you for reminding me that her feelings are "facts" to her, and nothing I can say will change that.

She texted me maybe 5 times before I got to the event, and I texted back telling her I was at the event and couldn't talk so she texted me a few more times asking if we could talk about this tomorrow. I feel like a freaking child. But you are right. I am over 40 years old. I think I am just going to tell her that I don't want to talk about this anymore. Either that or I am going to fully lay it out that this needs to stop. That there will be no more calling me crying about how often we bond. Who knows. I really need to think about what to say tomorrow. What I really want to do is just focus on all the work I have to do, the chores after work, my kids homework, laundry, and my FOC. I don't want to have to have a "talk" tomorrow.
"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

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Dinah-sore

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2017, 02:50:46 AM »
I am often guilty of what it sounds like you did - say on the phone and JADE, hoping your rational arguments will make sense. They don't and won't to her, and it seems to just make things worse.  :stars:

Do yourself a favour (and I promise you and me that I'm going to do the same in future if/when I talk to my parents next) - set a timer for 10 mins and get off the phone when it rings ("love you Mom, but I really need to go..."), and if they start to get blamey/mad etc, get off the phone ASAP ("it sounds like you're upset, let's talk when you're feeling better").

And the previous poster is right - you aren't responsible for her feelings. As long as you're doing the best you can to be calm and polite, you're doing your best :).  Hugs

Thank you for the encouragement. I have done that one time before. When she came to my house and cried hysterically at my kitchen table and wanted to tell me that she is scared of me and my anger. When she complained about how my house was decorated and I told her (with a laugh) not to tell me how to decorate my house. I did say, maybe you should leave mom and we can talk about this when you are not so upset. She looked at me like I had pushed the nuclear launch codes and it was going down. And I held my ground and said, I don't want to argue like this in front of the kids, that we need to talk when she is not so upset. She straightened up real quick. Not wanting to leave.

But yeah, sometimes i forget that I can say, let's talk later. I am not a kid anymore. I LOVE the timer idea. I will use the oven timer, so she can hear it and think I need to go and pull something out of the oven!!!! <3
"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

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Dinah-sore

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2017, 02:56:31 AM »
Quote
Because I must not be doing something right, since she keeps doing this to me.
It is her pushing your boundaries. She is refusing to accept them and so comes up with different strategies, today it was crying and blaming you for her hurt. She may continue to do so, and you may continue to have to stand your ground for quite some more. If she is hurt and I don't doubt she is, she has to help herself. By clinging onto you like a barnacle for life support, she is disabling herself, hurting herself. The kind of enmeshment she wants is neither healthy nor normal, for neither of you. You aren't doing anything wrong, you are individuating which should have happened in your teenage years.

Quote
I feel like I got hit by an emotional freight train. Boom.
You were, and you were having an emotional concussion.

Sorry, I have to run myself, just wanted to let you know you did well, setting and defending boundaries is hard work. Maybe the next time when she starts crying this could be your cue to get of the phone? "M, you are clearly upset, why don't we talk another time when you feel better?" - yes, it will be held against you as further evidence, - but so is pretty much anything short of you going back to being enmeshed daughter -, and at least you don't have to engage in an argument, listen to her guilt trips etc. It will also make it clear to her that this strategy isn't working. And if you cannot say that, simply tell her your kids need you, which would have been absolutely true tonight and a very good reason to get off the phone.

And absolutely what VividImagination suggested, don't pick up her calls, look at her messages when you are busy, need to focus on your own life. Maybe let her calls go to VM and check them later and let her texts get separated too, so you only deal with them when you have the energy to do so? None of these are emergencies, so putting her stuff aside and focusing on your stuff is an important step out of her reach.

Thank you so much. You are right, if I get off the phone when she starts crying, she will have to learn that this strategy does the opposite of what she wants. She may stop it???? Who knows.

As far as her calls going to VM. I have been doing that. And that is part of what she is upset about. Even tonight. I missed her two first calls. When we did talk I explained that I was getting ready and doing my hair. She said I never answer the phone when she calls.

I am not saying I won't follow this advice (because I totally will), but right now, because she pointed it out as something that is "deeply hurting her" I feel dizzy when I think of letting her calls go to VM. I will still do it. But her crying did do some work on me in the inside. I do feel "trained" like maybe I could a little better for her. Which makes me sooooooo mad. My mind is at least recognizing this reaction though so I can figure out how to manage it without it affecting my behavior.

Thank you so much for taking the time to leave that comment even though you were in a hurry and had to run <3
"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

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Dinah-sore

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2017, 03:02:13 AM »
I can't remember, do you see a therapist? Is this a possibility? Could you consider finding an excellent therapist who can help you work on boundaries, tools for dealing with your M, and anything else that might be helpful?

This forum has been amazing, but sometimes it's pretty powerful to have a professional tell you that your parents' behavior is NOT normal and that you have the right to set boundaries, and then help you figure out how to do so.

I'm really sorry you have to deal with this. I can only imagine how upsetting and exhausting it must be.

I was seeing a T, but I stopped about a month ago for two reasons. 1) I am in debt and it was sinking me deeper. 2) She was starting to play devil's advocate with my mom, trying to give her behavior the benefit of the doubt. "Maybe your mom doesn't mean to do xyz?" She was really good about helping me get my mom off my GPS, and helping me with some other practical stuff. But I think I want someone who can help me with some of the anxiety, and past trauma, and how it affects me. More than just giving my mom the benefit of the doubt. It started to feel like chatting with a girlfriend, or complaining. When I needed a bit more for the money. She was kind though. I might find another T later, when I have more money. Or even try her again later.
"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

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Dinah-sore

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2017, 03:03:54 AM »
I know it doesn't feel like it but I think you did really great. It sounds like you validated her feelings but also refused to take responsibility for HER feelings. The one thing I would do differently was to stop the conversation right in the beginning "Mom, I'm sorry that you are upset but I have plans tonight and need to get ready. I promise we can discuss this tomorrow night." I know that's hard to do because your mom was upset, but really, she's upset much of the time anyway so you've just gotta let go and let her deal with it. She is the only one that can make herself feel better.

I bet you are spot on about you M being jealous of your time spent with your friend.

Have you read "Walking on Eggshells"? I think the things you said were spot on with the advice in that book.

I know this is difficult but you are doing great! Take care and try to enjoy your evening.

I have read "Walking on Eggshells" but not for a few months so I barely remember! LOL. I need to go back and review!!!!

Thank you for the encouragement <3 and advice.
"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

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Dinah-sore

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2017, 03:20:28 AM »
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I think you did remarkably well, especially in that this is starting to *anger* you.

Anger is a perfectly normal reaction to her overblown performance - and I do mean that.  It's a PERFORMANCE.   :dramaqueen:

WomanInterrupted, thank you so much for your comment. This made me feel so much better. I get angry, but then I feel guilty for being angry. But I am only angry because I am being scolded for doing nothing wrong.

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I honestly think if this woman could suture herself to you, she would!   :aaauuugh:

And that's NOT normal and it's *definitely* unhealthy.    She calls it anxiety? 

Hon, I've got other words:  You have an OBSESSIVE STALKER for a mother.

I do feel like she is a stalker in so many ways. And I probably am not liking her Facebook posts as much this last month, but not on purpose. But it probably is happening, but she is keeping track!!!! :aaauuugh: I know her, she literally went back through all her posts and looked to see the last time I liked one of her posts. She told me when it was tonight.

But when I go on Facebook and I see her leaving comments on people's posts that are MY FRIENDS, that she has NEVER MET, and I am not even close to, but she has ADDED them as friends and is always "praying" for them. And I sit here thinking, WTH? How do you even know this person????? Or my friends that she HATES, that she runs down, and tries to get me to hate, she will comment "praying" on their posts too. It feels suffocating. Usually by the time I see a few of her comments on MY FRIENDS posts, I close the tab and get outa there because I feel upset that I can't freaking escape her.

Even now, typing that I feel like such a mean person. I am not jealous or territorial, it is just weird to me. She commented on three posts this weekend of a friend of mine that I used to be an aquaintance with 15 years ago, who the last time I went to dinner with them was 2008. And they are my age. And I don't think my mom has ever even had a conversation with them in real life. I asked my husband why he thought this was happening, and he agreed that it was really strange. If I mention it to my mom, she will act like a wounded puppy. So I just get off Facebook after quickly checking my notifications and messages. It is such a bummer too, I have friends out of state that this is the only place I can keep in touch easily, and I am at the point where I just want to completely close my account. All of my memories are on there too :( I have posted so many cute moments with my kids. It is almost like a memory book for me. But now I hate it.
"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

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RapunzelNoMore

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2017, 03:28:56 AM »
I was shaking my head as I read your posts because this is what I've dealt with from my MIL. Almost exactly.

When she says it's "hurting" her, what she means is that she is uncomfortable because you are becoming an individual, separate from her, and she is desperate to keep you locked in. BPDs fear abandonment, but unfortunately they view any individuality as being abandoned.

Repeat this to yourself every time she whips up the tears and "agony":

"Sometimes crazy looks like sad to suck you back in."
And at last I see the light, and it's like the fog has lifted

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Dinah-sore

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2017, 03:38:14 AM »
Repeat this to yourself every time she whips up the tears and "agony":

"Sometimes crazy looks like sad to suck you back in."

Wow. That is so profound. Thank you.
"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

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RapunzelNoMore

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2017, 03:39:13 AM »
Repeat this to yourself every time she whips up the tears and "agony":

"Sometimes crazy looks like sad to suck you back in."

I take no credit, it's from Big Bang Theory lol  ;D ;D

Wow. That is so profound. Thank you.
And at last I see the light, and it's like the fog has lifted

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foggyme

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2017, 04:53:01 AM »
Dinah-sore, my mother stalks whoever she thinks is involved in my life as well, that's why I (try to) keep her at bay. She befriended MIL, she got H's phone no from her and whenever I don't answer the phone soon enough for her she calls him. Eventually he blocked her calls. Sometime ago I decided - with H - that I'll never be alone with her - so she behaves better now in person, but first time I did this she squirmed a lot about, as she put it 'us, mother and daughter', being alone. Haha, right. So she can torment me more.
Ten years ago she visited without prior notice my best friend's mother since she knew the address (not the exact floor and apt no, but she figured it out I don't know how) twice - and she had no relationship with that woman. She only saw her before once or twice when I was leaving to my college city and we picked friend up (the daughter) with luggage and her mother came out the building as well to help with luggage. The second time my mother was following me around town and showed up at friend's place ringing the doorbell. I panicked immediately, told friend and her M I think my M is at the door, and, I kid you not, everybody shut the hell up and pretended not to be home. To this day - especially by contrast with other people that would kill me with advice about giving M a slack about her bad behaviour because SHE IS YOUR MOTHER - I cherish that woman. She was the only woman from M's generation that didn't tell me to go along with M's behaviour. Even people that are annoyed with her tell me that ..
I apologise,  I have have hijacked your thread.

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Blueskies

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2017, 06:30:43 AM »
Yep, you are NOT responsibile for your mother's feelings. She is dumping them all on you and expecting you to meet all her expectations and needs. You are not hurting her, she is hurting herself - it's not adult behaviour.

she is being incredibly demanding.  It is totally unreasonable and inappropriate.

My M is also foul and grumpy to me rather than nice. It's entitlement and just pushes me away further. This sounds an awful lot like BPD - the 'I hate you don't leave me' thing.

She is acting like a toddler with the crying and enmeshment demands. Remember, you didn't cause this and you can't cure it. You need to look after your own mental health. There's a lot of blame and guilt trips going on - but you don't need to take it on.

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Zebrastriped

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2017, 08:16:06 AM »
Dinahsore, my word, alot of this is familiar to me.  I can remember needing to write down immediately after interactions with uBPDmom what exactly happened and what was said so I could remember it.  Still, sometimes, I forget things in my attempts to flee fast.  Many other things you wrote I identified with, so don't feel alone.

The thing with the garlic reminds me of what uBPDmom does to my dad.  Just berate and berate him over something the rest of the world would find inconsequential.  Oh, by the way, if she keeps harping about it, there is a term for that here - antique injustice.

I generally back away from any histrionics uBPDmom has.  She must have learned I won't respond, because she still has them in front of my sister.

If you don't want to have the "talk", don't do it.  I wouldn't discuss my relationship with my mother with her.  Just the idea of that kind of vunerablity gives me the heebie jeebies.

You are making great progress.  Be kind to yourself.