BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?

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practical

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2017, 07:49:40 PM »
Yes, she tried a different tactic, catching bees with honey instead of using a stick, she tried to confuse and bamboozle you. And she still did cry, still tried to appeal to your pity and her insistence that only you can rescue her, it is all so sad and sick. You did stand your ground on not being there to rescue her or fill her needs, now you have to keep repeating it every time she brings it up or better say "Mom, we have talked about this. You have to do this yourself. We are not rehashing this." and switch the conversation, this way you spare yourself any more tears and scenes hopefully.

One thing that struck me was that the sweet times she brought up were when your kids were little, so not only were you still enmeshed, they were still adoring her too, hadn't individuated yet. I think she wants it both ways, for you to be still a little dependent child, who adores her and thereby she gets her self-worth and at the same time you should be the adult and rescue her. It is something I have noticed with each of my parents, the good times they like to remember are when I was little and believed they were the greatest parents, at the same time I'm called upon to be the parent/spouse to them.

Her neediness isn' yours to fix, nor can you ever, even if you tried your darndest and gave your last breath to her. As the 3C's Rule says ""I didn't cause it, I can't cure it and I can't control it."

You took another step forward today and whatever we have said, the step you take has to be yours and fitted to your strength. :hug:
“If I’m not towards myself, who is towards myself? And when I’m only towards myself, what am I? And if not now, when?” (Rabbi Hillel)

"I can forgive, but I cannot afford to forget." (Moglow)

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all4peace

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2017, 08:37:41 PM »
Wow, you did great!

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VividImagination

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2017, 10:08:02 PM »
Will post more later, but you are a rock star!!!!!
There are three solutions to every problem: accept it, change it, or leave it. If you cannot accept it, change it. I f you cannot change it, leave it.

Sometimes you're damned if you don't and damned if you do, so damn well do what's best for you.

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Terichan

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2017, 11:28:08 PM »
You did great, Dinah! I think you handled that very well.

Now the next thing is to keep up your boundary, that you won't continue the conversation if she starts crying and guilting you and telling you you don't call enough, etc. And then follow through. When she starts up, just say "Ok, mom, I have to go now" and then hang up the phone. You might have to do it more than once, probably quite a few times, but if you keep steady it will get through to her eventually. At least one can hope so! 

Your mother's tactic of saying you two "don't talk enough" while you're talking to her -- her using that time not to talk, but to complain that you don't talk enough... it reminds me of the way my BPD mother used to behave, too. Last Mother's Day, my FOC, my brother, and I all went to visit her at her apartment. We brought her flowers, cake, cards, presents -- she had her son, and her daughter, and her son-in-law, and her grandchildren all right there with her, to celebrate her on her special day. And what did she say, when we all sat down at a table outdoors with her to celebrate?

*high-pitched, waify, crying voice*  :dramaqueen: "Oh, I thought I was going to spend this whole day allllllllll alooooooooooooonnnnnneeeeeee!"  :dramaqueen: 

Yeah, thanks, mom, we're really glad we came too!  :roll:

They make it really hard, don't they?
“Sometimes your joy is the source of your smile, but sometimes your smile can be the source of your joy.”
― Thich Nhat Hanh

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VividImagination

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #44 on: October 20, 2017, 12:08:56 AM »
You did so well...I think I speak for everyone when I say we're really proud of you!

And there is no right way to do this...you know your situation and your PD best...the most successful way I've seen to manage things is to glean what info you can from the advice given here and modify it to what will work best for you. You did exactly that, and it worked.

You're exactly correct...she changed tactics. Let's break it down, shall we?
 - Call daughter over and over and over, angry because...whatever
 - Daughter doesn't answer phone
 - Getting angrier! Calling more! Nasty texts!
 - Daughter doesn't respond
 - Go to Plan B - waify, sobby, self-deprecating apologies. "There's something wrong with me! I need help!" 
     (Notice she doesn't claim responsibility for her actions - there's something wrong with her, therefore someone else must fix her. Not her fault!)
 - Daughter refuses to entertain Plan B, sets boundaries
 - Off to formulate Plan C...

So both you and your mother learned an important lesson tonight. You learned that if you don't answer the phone, toxic waste will NOT erupt from it. Nothing will happen except your mother working herself into what Woman Interrupted calls "a froth".

Your mother learned that Plan A, bullying Daughter with raging and screaming, doesn't work. Daughter no longer responds in the expected way, so other tactics must be utilized. Plan B, sobbing waif, got her some attention but didn't get her back to the level of co-dependent, parasitic Siamese twin that she craves.

As other people have mentioned, it's like dealing with a giant senior citizen toddler. I have a real toddler at home, and if one tactic to get what he wants doesn't work he will try 4332871 other ways to get it. If I am persistent in blocking the attempts, he will eventually give up and see something else nice, shiny, (and usually dangerous) that catches his eye.

PDs are EXACTLY the same way. They will work on you for awhile, trying every tactic they can think of to keep you as supply, working like mad to get around your boundaries. But finally (mine tapered off to almost nothing after a year) they will see another source of supply and pounce on that for awhile, only remembering you every once in a while, pressing a button to see if your supply is still dried up. My NM went through five or six supply sources in a period of three years after my siblings and I went LC/NC...usually after about six months those alternate sources of supply (employees or hired companions) would run screaming for the hills and the Eye of Sauron would swing back to one of us to see if we were juicy again.

You did really well...just keep pulling back, drastically reduce the number of calls/texts you respond to, and if she starts the "Rescue MEEEE!" garbage again, tell you're not a therapist.

And it wouldn't hurt thee at all to get to Al-Anon. Your mother is a dry drunk.
There are three solutions to every problem: accept it, change it, or leave it. If you cannot accept it, change it. I f you cannot change it, leave it.

Sometimes you're damned if you don't and damned if you do, so damn well do what's best for you.

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WomanInterrupted

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #45 on: October 20, 2017, 01:57:27 AM »
You did amazingly fantastic!  I'm so proud of you!    :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :drinks: :chestbump: :yourock:

There are no one-size fits-all  answers for these situations.  None of us are cookie cutter people, with cookie cutter lives - although many of the PDs in our lives act and speak like they pass around some kind of playbook!   :wacko:

You know your mom best, so you made a call - and it turned out to be the right one!  You CAN trust yourself!  You DO make good decisions!   :yahoo:

You've put her on notice and called out the bad behavior for what it is, and laid it out clearly that only SHE can work on herself.   :like:

She won't do anything about it other than keep switching tactics, trying to push your buttons to find one that works and gets you scrambling again.

You already turned off the GPS, which was probably one of THE hardest things you've ever done - and the world didn't end, even though she insists it HAS.

So today, you took another step, were incredibly brave and spelled out more boundaries.  Again, the world isn't going to end and I'll tell you something - putting up boundaries often leads to putting up even MORE boundaries, when it comes to unacceptable behavior, actions and language.   :yes:

You'll find it gets *easier* with time - and even the most minor successes.   :)

But those boundaries are *never* going to stop her from trying new tactics to get you back up on that shelf, where she thinks you *belong* until she needs you.  Then you just snap into action, do what she wants, and get back on your shelf.   :roll:

Nothing is going to change her from seeing you as an OBJECT.

When she inevitably "forgets" about this conversation or the boundaries you spelled out, don't hesitate to remind her and initiate a *consequence.*

She calls and starts screaming blue murder?  "We've discussed this.  I'm not going to listen to you.  Goodbye."

And don't be afraid to put her in time-outs for bad behavior.  When she starts pushing for more, the consequence is she gets LESS.

I have a feeling you're going to be writing things like, "You guys are NOT going to believe what she did today!"

Yeah.  We will!   :grouphug:   People like your mom have NO shame when it comes to getting what they want and will go to extreme measures for a supply - constant doctor/ER visits for vague, fake symptoms, hospitalizations for the same, bribery, threatening to cut you out of the will, smear campaigns to ALL who will listen (including the people at your church - she *knows* who the gossips are and they'll be the first to hear her lies, because she knows they'll spread like wildfire!), claims to you and others that you've CHANGED and she's afraid of you, your DH is controlling you, trying to stage an "intervention" for that drug/alcohol problem she's "suddenly" convinced is consuming you, filing false charges with CPS, and probably about ten thousand others that elude me at the moment.

The sky is the limit when it comes to getting what they want, and many unBPDs are unbelievably vengeful people who hold grudges forever.  At their center is a white-hot ANGER, if not RAGE that *something* is missing from their lives and somebody - YOU - better figure out what it is, *every single time* - because they can only be happy for a few minutes before they find fault with the last thing we did or said, and it's on to the next intangible, unknowable "something."

The thing you really have to keep asking yourself, while all this is going on is, "Why would somebody who claims to love me want to hurt and manipulate me, and somehow think it will make us CLOSER?"

It makes NO sense - unless you're unBPD, I guess.   :roll:

And yes, of course she brought up times when you were little and still dependent on her.  Didi did the same thing to me, but never once cited ONE incident of closeness from when I was an adult.

If you  went to Didi and Ray's house, you would have seen all my school pictures on display and a collage of my wedding when I was 18 - and then thought DH and I had died in some kind of tragic or mysterious circumstance.

They HAD the pictures - and put them in a drawer, *face down* - like we were being punished for growing up and having lives of our own.  I had to laugh when I found them - it reminded me of a friend's old-school  Italian grandmother, who'd put statues of saints in the closet when she thought they hadn't answered her prayers!   :rofl:

I really think these people do NOT see us as adults - that's why they talk to us the way they do - like we're naughty *children.*

Your mom might actually surprise you and behave for a while before she starts pushing again.  You lay down a boundary and she might behave again - but those windows will keep getting shorter and shorter, until NO time passes before she's at it again.

Or she might just start in with different tactics, to keep you completely off balance.

Be surprised by *nothing.*   :yes:

I just hope she's not like Didi, where it became an all-out WAR for who was in control of my life.

However, it was an easily winnable war, because by that time, I was *seriously pissed off* and not putting up with *anything* she had to throw at me.

You want more and keep pushing for it?  You get less and less and less, until you get ZERO.

Don't be surprised if you eventually wind up going down the same road.

 :hug:

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Shockwave

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #46 on: October 20, 2017, 06:23:44 AM »
Borderline is gonna borderline.  :blink:

By the way, you're doing better than great.  By all accounts, you're doing wonderful. Hang in there! One more thing: give yourself permission to feel angry. You've been suppressing it for a mighty long time because you felt like she denied it.  You're not a child at her mercy anymore and what she is doing deserves such a response.  But do not react out of said anger. That feeds the borderline and she's got you there. Give nothing to her emotionally and become the gray rock. 
"Because he's the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not a hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A Dark Knight."
-- James Gordon, The Dark Knight

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Blueskies

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #47 on: October 20, 2017, 06:31:44 AM »
You did really well. Well done for being so strong and having good boundaries. Sounds like she totally waifed out. She seriously needs some therapy. The demonisation switching to idealisation is very borderline. You are either all good or all bad. 

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SunnyMeadow

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2017, 01:32:04 PM »
I agree with everyone, your replies to her were Spot On! I only hope I can react so well when the time comes.  :like:


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bopper

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #49 on: October 20, 2017, 05:07:54 PM »
Also, tape this by your phone:

'I see you are upset.  We can talk another time when you are not upset. Talk to you later." <hang up>
Just because they are incapable of loving you, doesn't mean that you are unlovable.
Anything makes the false self appear real is supply.

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Dinah-sore

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2017, 11:22:28 PM »
I can’t tell you what joy your comments brought to me these last few days. Thank you so much!!!!! I am someone who when I do something “good” will ruminate about how it wasn’t “good enough.” Or whatever, I think it has to do with her always doing that to me. But I honestly know that that conversation with her could NOT have happened six months ago. And I am truly changing and getting clearer and stronger and braver. I know that soooooo much of that growth is due to the information and support shared in this group. It is worth so much to me.

I know I will continue to grow in all these areas as I learn and heal and deal with stuff, but I am so thankful that you were here to celebrate with me. You. People who get it. Who understand this process. I appreciate you so much.

I will write back more later. My husband is on a business trip, so I have been busy, but this time I am all alone!!! :D My mom no longer comes to stay the entire time he is gone, sleeping with me in my bed!!!! And it is no longer even a discussion. Wow. So much has changed...
"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

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raindrop

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2017, 11:54:28 PM »
Dinah, I've been following this thread and just caught up on the update about your convo and all the well deserved congrats - I just wanted to add mine in as well - you did AWESOME and were sooooo brave! I'm really proud of you.

 :udawoman:

Do something good for yourself to celebrate this huge achievement - go out for hot chocolate or something. You deserve it big time. Well done!
"Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
"Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
Piglet was comforted by this.
- A.A. Milne.

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Spring Butterfly

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Re: BPDm crying, wanting me to enmesh, what am I doing wrong? What do I do?
« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2017, 10:14:45 PM »
 
My husband is on a business trip, so I have been busy, but this time I am all alone!!! :D My mom no longer comes to stay the entire time he is gone, sleeping with me in my bed!!!! And it is no longer even a discussion. Wow. So much has changed...
WOW what a wonderful journey so far!

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