Classic N behaviour in friends

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eternallystuck

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Classic N behaviour in friends
« on: October 22, 2017, 05:26:29 AM »
I have noticed a lot of N behaviour in friends is the same. Very calculated. Here are a few common ground scenarios I have found amongst them.

-Belittling you or asking inflammatory/nosey questions on the way to somewhere. They will bring it up on the way to an event you are both attending so that you can't confront them there & then without the day being awkward or you having to leave.

-Things going missing around them. Although they look for it with you, you have a gut feeling they know where it is. I would say, keep note of how many things go missing no matter how small & listen to your instinct! If you find 1 or more of these items in their bag at a later date....there you go!

-Constantly letting you down last minute. Despite the fact that the N always makes the plans with you, they leave you hanging & cancel at the last minute. This keeps you in a state of confusion & shows they don't respect your time.

-Cosying up to people who you have serious grievances with. N in question will suddenly get friendly with someone you can't stand & act innocent about it. They may cry or guilt trip if you tell them it is incredibly disloyal & disrespectful as they don't know this person. Its very odd to get friendly with someone you are aware your friend has been hurt by.

-Getting overly friendly with your ex partner (that they have often been around). You realise their jokey banter with partner in question is getting a little too flirty for your liking. 3 months later it turns out are indeed screwing them. They don't see anything wrong with it, you're not with them anymore!

-Splitting bills in a restaurant or night out. Oh this is a classic with N's! They will try to confuse you in order to cut you short. They may do this a few times during the night. "If I give you this 20 then you can give me blah blah or if you pay this I will pay that". Suddenly when you get home you realise you are 60 short & for some reason you always spend more around this 'friend'. I no longer fall for this trick by stating I will pay for my share only with my own money separately. If they have an issue with that, Its very clear to me what their agenda is.   

I usually find these sorts of people think they are very slick when it is wildly obvious they are untrustworthy. The fact is I am always observing but probably not acting soon enough.

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notrightinthehead

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Re: Classic N behaviour in friends
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2017, 05:54:01 AM »
It would also take me a while to figure someone like this out. Because my basic assumption is, most people are good in their heart. And I have decided to stick with this belief. But now you have figured this person out and it sounds like you have enough reason to mistrust their intentions...
I can't hate my way into loving myself.

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eternallystuck

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Re: Classic N behaviour in friends
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2017, 05:57:41 AM »
notrightinthehead

I agree. I want to believe I have it wrong & I'm being silly but after a while you realise they are capitalising on your good nature

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SmolderingDragon

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Re: Classic N behaviour in friends
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2017, 11:22:38 PM »
notrightinthehead

I agree. I want to believe I have it wrong & I'm being silly but after a while you realise they are capitalising on your good nature

That used to be the M.O. of an ex-friend of mine.  Looking back on her behavior I'm fairly certain that she was BPD.  She used to prey upon people who had kind and generous natures by dropping hints about things and allowing these people to buy her things or lend money, etc.  Then afterwards she would justify her manipulations by saying, "I didn't *ask* them to do that!  They volunteered it!"  :thumbdown:

And the cancelling at the last minute drives me nuts, especially if it's something like going to a concert or event where you've already purchased the tickets, now you are out all that money.  >:(

Along the same lines, my former bff from school (many N traits) used to talk about seeing movies that I also had an interest in and then when I expressed an interest she'd tell me she'd let me know when she planned on going so I could come along, too.  Then she would go and never contact me.  Later she'd talk about how great the movie was to me.  >:(   It was so infuriating and really sent the message that I didn't matter very much to her.
"Some people bring joy wherever they go, and some people bring joy whenever they go." -- Mark Twain

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eternallystuck

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Re: Classic N behaviour in friends
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2017, 10:48:41 AM »
She used to prey upon people who had kind and generous natures by dropping hints about things and allowing these people to buy her things or lend money, etc.  Then afterwards she would justify her manipulations by saying, "I didn't *ask* them to do that!  They volunteered it!"  :thumbdown:

Smouldering dragon I have noticed this behaviour too. You will do them a favour just to be nice & they will act ungrateful or entitled & say 'well I didn't make you do that'....no you didn't but you could at least show gratitude with ya selfish ***. They are used to getting their own way without forcing us. Its only when you start to evaluate how one sided the friendship has got that you realise you've been taken for a ride.  For me its not always what the N is doing but what they're not.  They're all take, take, take- me, me, me.

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Mintstripes

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Re: Classic N behaviour in friends
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2017, 11:22:04 AM »
For me, the hallmark of an N former friend was turning every conversation back to herself.
I remember one example, I was pregnant and overdue, had a very stressful week because H was sick and bedridden, I had some very important legal things to take care of that week, between doctors appointments and late pregnancy ailments and had no one to help me... I got it all done, but it was a lot to handle. Her response? Im stressed TOO Then she proceeded to tell me ALL about her family drama du jour and other pettiness. I should have gone NC that day.
She also expected me to be available all day long, texting back and forth, calling etc. I finally realized I was giving so much energy to a black hole. She just needed me as a sounding board and was an emotional vampire. I remember thinking that none of my other friends required so much of my time. I also didnt want her around my child in the future, so I cut ties. At first, I felt guilty but I dont miss her at all now.

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Adrienne25

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Re: Classic N behaviour in friends
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2017, 03:26:08 PM »
Interesting list!  How about when you attempt to draw the line and say "The holidays..lets just forgo the gifting and choose a nice Christmas card that expresses our friendship (me looking at The Grinch Cards, Ha) and let the meaning of Christmas  show thru. First there is 'hurt':  I LOVE buying you gifts!  Its the Season! Don't be such a drag", but they agree. Come the Holiday, they send you some stupid trinket  ornament 'From the Dogs". I have not had a tree up in 14 years.  Or they cosy up to your family and spill something you said in confidence months before, stirring up all kinds of turmoil, then acting like "I didn't know (sing song voice here ..) that your folks had no idea that you had a biopsy". I can't tell you how happy I broke it off with by VERYYYYY BEST FRIEND in the whole world last January.[/b]

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eternallystuck

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Re: Classic N behaviour in friends
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2017, 04:42:54 PM »
Mintstripes, got to agree with you there. Have you noticed whenever you have a serious issue they seem very dulled by it. They give you that droning 'ohhhhh, realllly' aka I do not care at all response or like you said, they turn it back on themselves. A real friend should have enough emotional intelligence to recognise when they need to give support & maybe shelve their own drama for the meantime.

Its funny these are also the type to seem shocked when you finally pull the plug.....................erm HELLO?!

Nowadays I really evaluate how I feel after being around a friend....do I have feel irritable? Belittled? Ignored?

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Mintstripes

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Re: Classic N behaviour in friends
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2017, 05:04:47 PM »
Eternally, yes exactly if a friend is going through a life crisis or something really upsetting, Im not going to start talking about myself! Its not the time or place!

I have another friend who interrupted me several months ago just when I was telling her about Hs controlling ways and emotionally abusive behavior. Im done with her as well. I was already really upset and she just didnt care and started talking about something really trivial. I learned my lesson.

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SmolderingDragon

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Re: Classic N behaviour in friends
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2017, 06:04:08 PM »
I just thought of a few more.  Suspected BPD ex-friend would always expect me to talk for literally *hours* at a time on the telephone.  Just because she was unemployed and had no life doesn't mean everyone else is, too.  Then if you tried to get off the phone because you had things to do, she'd get upset and cry that "no one ever puts me first". :roll:

Another thing about her:  usually she was fun to talk to one the phone, but if she invited me over to hang out, suddenly she'd be in a pissy mood when I got there with an attitude like I was inconveniencing her.  :stars:  Like hello? You asked *me* to come over?  :doh:  On top of that, any time I ever hung out with her I felt completely emotionally drained and sick to my stomach afterward.  She was such a vampire in that way, totally draining all my life force.

My former bff from high school I'm still friends with on Facebook, but I haven't seen her in over 10 years because she lives in another country.  She usually never engages with me there.  I have more interactions with her husband than her. (He's a little N himself, but otherwise funny and engaging.)  The only time former bff will engage with me on there is if she tags me on some meme that's meant to be a passive aggressive  insult.  >:(
"Some people bring joy wherever they go, and some people bring joy whenever they go." -- Mark Twain

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eternallystuck

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Re: Classic N behaviour in friends
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2017, 06:07:32 AM »
Mintstripes Its funny I had an old friend who had a kid with a disability which I obviously sympathised with but she really used that as an excuse to make everything about her. Your role was to serve her & her feelings only. Nothing else. When her pet died, I had to listen to hours of sobbing yet when a member of my FOO tried to call police on me after attacking me... she didn't reply. Nothing. Yet I was always there when she needed me. I started to realise she'd groomed me to feel that my issues had no significance.

Omg, smoulderingdragon, the ex N friend I described above used to do that too. She would invite me round & make me feel incredibly unwelcome. I also used to think, what have you invited me round for?? Then say If I hadn't messaged her in a few weeks she'd txt me implying I was being off with her & I'd just think...well you do have a phone you can call me on. Ugh social media is a mare with N's. This one would tag me in posts about 'bestfriends' yet would ignore me at my darkest hour in real life. I really have to laugh lmaoooo

 You don't know whether you're coming & going with these people. I always feel super relieved after going NC. They are too draining.

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Mintstripes

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Re: Classic N behaviour in friends
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2017, 02:29:33 PM »
Eternally, thats a good point about them grooming us to think our issues dont matter.
With that one N friend, Id be upset about FOO and would try to talk to her about it, and shed come back with Thats like the time when X happened to me. And she would go on about that and the conversation was all about her, again.
I also notice that anytime something good happened to me, or I started a new project or was excited about something, shed barely respond. It was always some vapid one word reply like lol or cool.
She fed on drama for sure.

Your example about your former friend not caring about your FOO member attacking you, that resonates with me too. Another suspected N friend would do that as well. This past summer, I was extremely upset after a rage and storm out by H, I told her about it and her only response was oh. Well I dont know what to say. Then she proceeded to talk about her dating life (which IMO sounded very immature for a woman in her late 30s, but I digress). I learned my lesson.

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SmolderingDragon

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Re: Classic N behaviour in friends
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2017, 04:09:07 PM »
Yep, there's definitely grooming.  In my case, I was raised by a uNPD mother, so I was already conditioned to try to people please and "be a good friend" and put others' needs first.  I would listen patiently and empathetically to all her drama, but if I had an issue, like trying to talk about my problems with M, she didn't want to hear it.  Looking back now I can see that she didn't give a crap about me as a friend, I was only there to fulfill her needs, mainly as a garbage bin or toilet for her to vomit her emotional issues on to.  That's why I always felt so awful whenever I left from hanging out with her.

And ironically enough, she suddenly ended our "friendship" and went NC with me when I tried to talk to her about something my M did with the excuse that she "didn't need that kind of drama in her life". LMAO!  Looking back on it now, that was just a convenient way for her to discard me since she already had her next victim in sight (a future boyfriend). These PD's really are something, aren't they?
"Some people bring joy wherever they go, and some people bring joy whenever they go." -- Mark Twain

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eternallystuck

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Re: Classic N behaviour in friends
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2017, 07:08:22 PM »
Mintstripes- I think we had a very similar friend :roll:! Like your scenario, if I opened up about NPD M wearing me down, she would turn the focus on her M who was a bit sleazy & immature for her age but not harmful. They have a much closer & healthier relationship yet she always tried to convince me it was the 'same'. I cannot be in a room with M for 5mins without a spat...it definitely isn't the 'same' :blink:. Its just funny to me that they have nothing to offer but shallowness but expect us to sooth all their emotional burdens. Zzzz

Smouldering dragon- I can certainly relate to that. I think the rejection we face from an NPD M makes us fear rejections from others & so we become these little people pleasers who don't want to get anyone's back up. Not to mention we take so much abuse that we don't really have the best boundaries or self esteem needed to put our foot down. I always think I'm quite a tough character but according to my history of leeches (N friends) I'd say it is apparent my good nature gets taken for a ride :ninja:. Oh yeah I noticed they are less bemused with you once a partner comes on the scene (usually a massive enabler & pumps up their ego). Perhaps its a blessing in disguise though!

I don't know about you guys but I struggle with & keep a lot of my dramas about PD FOO to myself because I'm aware its overbearing (she's not going to change :blink:) so when I do open up IRL I really do need my friend to respond like a friend. Have people forgotten friendship is a 2way street?


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SmolderingDragon

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Re: Classic N behaviour in friends
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2017, 07:54:25 PM »
I don't know about you guys but I struggle with & keep a lot of my dramas about PD FOO to myself because I'm aware its overbearing (she's not going to change :blink:) so when I do open up IRL I really do need my friend to respond like a friend. Have people forgotten friendship is a 2way street?

I'm the same.  I find that for most people, especially if they have never dealt with a pwPD they just cannot relate and/or are overwhelmed with the information and don't really know how to respond.  That's why this site is such a godsend because people here know *exactly* what we've been through because they've experienced much of the same.

Also, I think society has been becoming increasingly narcissistic and people are so focused on themselves and their own issues that they don't seem to have the time or patience for anyone else.
"Some people bring joy wherever they go, and some people bring joy whenever they go." -- Mark Twain

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eternallystuck

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Re: Classic N behaviour in friends
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2017, 07:15:39 PM »
I'm the same.  I find that for most people, especially if they have never dealt with a pwPD they just cannot relate and/or are overwhelmed with the information and don't really know how to respond.  That's why this site is such a godsend because people here know *exactly* what we've been through because they've experienced much of the same.

Also, I think society has been becoming increasingly narcissistic and people are so focused on themselves and their own issues that they don't seem to have the time or patience for anyone else.

The support here is invaluable. I do agree they get overwhelmed, I guess I can sympathise with that! I agree with society getting increasingly narcissistic. I find that's why many friendships are very fluid & futile these days..because no friendship can survive without compromises, insight into ones flaws & resolutions. People aren't ready to do the dirty work required.  I think the rise of individualism in society has really fuelled this, a lot of people have forgotten to retain a communal sense of care whilst being an individual caring for your own needs. There's a lot of social climbing, me me me, & self consciousness about protecting ones image.

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SpringLight

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Re: Classic N behaviour in friends
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2017, 12:01:28 AM »
Mintstripes, got to agree with you there. Have you noticed whenever you have a serious issue they seem very dulled by it. They give you that droning 'ohhhhh, realllly' aka I do not care at all response or like you said, they turn it back on themselves. A real friend should have enough emotional intelligence to recognise when they need to give support & maybe shelve their own drama for the meantime.

Its funny these are also the type to seem shocked when you finally pull the plug.....................erm HELLO?!

Nowadays I really evaluate how I feel after being around a friend....do I have feel irritable? Belittled? Ignored?


Eternallystuck:

YES! YES! YES!  "...they feel dulled by it."

What a perfect way to describe the N reaction, when we share our serious issues with them.
However they learned to expect and get our rapt attention whenever THEY share their problems. No matter how petty, no matter how repetitions of the same incident....SIGH....

I'm someone who has attracted many N friends, through the years. Or perhaps I should say I was equally attracted to them, every bit as much as they were attracted to me.  A few of them were bonafide NPD, but many of them are just very N.

And in general, I have to say...the remaining few N friends I've kept after all this time have gotten EVEN MORE Narc, entitled and self-absorbed as they age! :aaauuugh:

The good news is once you meet and develop friendships with NON-N people, your standards for friendship changes.

With my precious non-N friendships, there is the mutual feeling that we will be present for each other, no matter what--no subject is off-limits. There is mutual respect, caring, interest. WE MAKE AN EFFORT.  If it's 30-70 one day, the pendulum could swing 70-30 in terms of whose issues command attention. Sometimes it's 90-10. But always balances out in the long run. Virtually anything that my NON-N friends care about I make an effort to care about and vice-versa.  It's just effortless--with non PD people with whom you're compatible, I mean.

As far as "dulling in response to our "serious issues" and "bad news"...this behavior has been such an eye-opener for me, recently.  I've realized that two of my friends dating back to childhood can NOT cope with any serious news or "heavy emotions."

A lifelong friend (I'll call "N1") became so negligent, self-important and self-absorbed, I slowly  but deliberately faded myself into obscurity. I "slow-faded" myself.  And as you remarked, I don't think N1 can even believe I've pulled the plug.

This very week I had a "lightbulb" realization about my OTHER childhood narcissistic friend,  N2. Although N2 considers me a "sister" N2 glosses over certain difficult things in my life.  As a result, I realize over the years  that I have withheld a lot of  my life and virtually all "negative news" with N2.

Example: I mentioned to N2 that I had a very healthy, vivacious friend who had been diagnosed with cancer I told N2 about this via email about a year ago. I didn't focus too much on the medical details, and I didn't make this the ONLY news I shared. But I did say it DEEPLY affected me.

N2 reaction? Nothing. I mean, not even a "sorry to hear about this." When N2 responded (a few days later), other topics were addressed, but not this. And, I just let that go.

A few months later, among many other topics, again  I shared my distress at the friend's declining health, failure to respond to chemo, etc. . Again no response from N2. N2 is not an unfeeling person, but...I think being an N... the thinking is "Well, this is Springlight's friend that I don't even know." Therefore....it's not worthy of my attention?

What do others think this non-reaction to difficult news is....?

And yet...that's bizarre.  My acceptance of this non-reaction is bizarre, too. This is a lifelong friend.
Even random strangers are capable of more empathy, interest, and compassion than that.

Eventually, the ill friend of mine died. A tragic loss for all.  Obviously, I was grieving, going to the funeral, etc.  I wasn't pursuing N2 contact, because I was involved with other people. And sadly, I didn't feel I could contact N2 since I don't sense N2 dismisses "certain topics."

When N2 emailed to "check in" with me  (as in "I haven't heard from you for a while") and also to share possible good news...I indicated that I had been preoccupied with the sad passing of Friend with Cancer. I indicated how affected I was by this, without belaboring the sad news with N2 who managed to ignore this topic.

I ALSO made a point of congratulating N2 on the good news. And making upbeat comments about THAT, making a point of "balancing out the email tone" even though I was still very sad an very much grieving. But I indicated that I wanted to talk about the good news MORE when things had lightened up for me.

No response.  :aaauuugh:

WHAT IS THIS????  (This from someone who considers me "a sister.") And after all these decades of friendship, why do I that behavior slide...without comment.

Well, anyway, whatever "THIS" is, EternallyStuck, I hope I didn't get too off-track and that I managed to give a relevant example of what YOU meant.  ;)

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SpringLight

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Re: Classic N behaviour in friends
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2017, 12:29:57 AM »
I just thought of a few more. Suspected BPD ex-friend would always expect me to talk for literally *hours* at a time on the telephone.   Just because she was unemployed and had no life doesn't mean everyone else is, too. Then if you tried to get off the phone because you had things to do, she'd get upset and cry that "no one ever puts me first". :roll:

Another thing about her:  usually she was fun to talk to one the phone, but if she invited me over to hang out, suddenly she'd be in a pissy mood when I got there with an attitude like I was inconveniencing her.  :stars:  Like hello? You asked *me* to come over?  :doh:  On top of that, any time I ever hung out with her I felt completely emotionally drained and sick to my stomach afterward.  She was such a vampire in that way, totally draining all my life force.

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Smoldering Dragon:

Wow. This is one of those OOF posts where I think to myself: I could have written all of that--about a former BPD friend!
Verbatim.

After the end of MY BPD friendship, (and yes, my BPD was unemployed, too. She called me at work AND after work!! ) I've realized that long phone conversations are fine, can be fun, even great, but the moment I or you want to or HAVE TO get off the phone  the rule has to be: YOU GRACIOUSLY ALLOW THAT PERSON TO GET OFF THE PHONE.  No whining or manipulation, or self-pity or initiating a new topic, or starting a fight, launching into a self-pitying monologue. 

After that friendship ended, I realized that the inability to let me get off the phone--especially after a MARATHON CONVERSATION--well, that's a huge red flag.  Never again! Life is too short to accommodate those BPD-esque moods, self-pity and unreasonable relationship demands.

Like you, when I visited my BPD friend's home (at her invitation) she tended to be moody, demanding, and unpredictable.

Emotionally drained was exactly how I felt.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 12:33:04 AM by SpringLight »

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JollyJazz

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Re: Classic N behaviour in friends
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2017, 02:26:30 AM »
Quote
Nowadays I really evaluate how I feel after being around a friend....do I have feel irritable? Belittled? Ignored?

This is such a good point! How you feel after being around that person! I was around a new friend/acquaintance for a few days recently, and she kept making both subtle and overt put downs and belittling remarks about me, and talking about how great she was! I just ended up feeling bad about myself. The good thing is, I could see what was going on there, and was happy to make my escape at the end of the weekend! It has taken a couple of days for that iccky feeling to recede. I truly never want to be around that person again!

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SmolderingDragon

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Re: Classic N behaviour in friends
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2017, 02:54:04 AM »
After that friendship ended, I realized that the inability to let me get off the phone--especially after a MARATHON CONVERSATION--well, that's a huge red flag.  Never again! Life is too short to accommodate those BPD-esque moods, self-pity and unreasonable relationship demands.

Like you, when I visited my BPD friend's home (at her invitation) she tended to be moody, demanding, and unpredictable.

Emotionally drained was exactly how I felt.

For me, there were so many red flags that it might as well have been a battalion of troops doing semaphore, but being raised by a uNPD mother I was completely blind to it.  But that "friendship" literally broke me.  I was so messed up after she suddenly went NC with me that I vowed NEVER AGAIN and full-on started working on changing myself so that I would never be used/played like that again.

Ironically, I learned what PDs were from an online acquaintance who ended up being dx'd BPD, but she is one of the rare pwPD who sought/is seeking help for herself.  So one Borderline broke me and another led to my healing and ultimately coming OOTF.

Now that I'm OOTF I can see the signs right away and know to steer clear.  :)
"Some people bring joy wherever they go, and some people bring joy whenever they go." -- Mark Twain