[biggerfish]

I was no perfect mom. But i did my best, admitted my mistakes, and do not have a PD.

She holds a sword over my head, and lately I've been second guessing how i raised all of my kids, not just my PD kid.

Granted, she was hard to raise, and my fleas showed more with her.

So now do I live the rest of my life feeling like a failure? Second guessing myself is, after all, a strong area for me lol.

And how do i move on? Do i detach from my PD child? It's so painful to detach from someone you love so much.

Just thinking out loud, but also could use some validation.

[Ijustwantpeace!]

Hi Biggerfish,

Happy Thxgiving!  I'm a bit in a hurry but wanted to get back to you & will write more possibly later or tmw.  Just so you know that you are NOT alone, I struggle with the very same questions & issues.  It is truly impossible & heartbreaking.  I do get it!  I too am detaching and am no contact.  It hurts beyond belief.  I have only one adult son & a "majorly" difficult one at that

Let's "try" to somehow enjoy or if not enjoy, get through this day.

Again, Happy Thxgiving Biggerfish!

[Latchkey]

biggerfish,
I think PDs develop in children because there is something in their make-up that makes them susceptible combined with factors in their environment. I don't think it's something we can control or correct but the most we can do is provide stability for these adult children. Yes, we can always be better parents. Sometimes being a better parent means detaching temporarily. Sometimes it has to be more long term.
I don't have PD Bio kids but I was step mom to kids that are teens that are developing PDs. I helped raise them from a young age and I raised my bio kids along with them. From a young age their coping skills were never fully developed. I saw them struggle with emotions, and anger, and feelings that made no sense to them. I watched them lash out. They were very difficult to parent and I think I read every article and book on better parenting I could get my hands on. I had the kids in therapy from 4 yo on. I had behavior therapists in the house. Psychiatrists, psychologists, neuropsychological testing......
I really believe for a person to change they have to really want to change and work very very hard in therapy for years if they have a PD. Basically you could have been Mother Goose or  Mother Theresa or Mary Poppins and your D is likely to still have struggled and still have a difficult relationship with you. She knows you love her and she also feels safe with you and this can mean that you get the brunt of her anger. In my parenting and in my relationships I see those with PDs, especially those who are high functioning, to feel that they have the most freedom to hurt those that are closest to them.

I hope you had a good Thanksgiving and I hope this helps a bit.

Latchkey

[Ijustwantpeace!]

Hello Latchkey,

While I know your reply was to to Biggerfish, I personally appreciate & find your reply very helpful for me also.  I too, have ready volumes about PD's.  One more confirmation that it isn't poor/bad/abusive parenting from someone like you who does have vast knowledge, is comforting to me.  I wish the general public as well as mental health professionals (!) were more knowledgeable that genetics & biology play a major role as well.

Thank you & hope you enjoyed your Thanksgiving.

[Latchkey]

Hello Latchkey,

While I know your reply was to to Biggerfish, I personally appreciate & find your reply very helpful for me also.  I too, have ready volumes about PD's.  One more confirmation that it isn't poor/bad/abusive parenting from someone like you who does have vast knowledge, is comforting to me.  I wish the general public as well as mental health professionals (!) were more knowledgeable that genetics & biology play a major role as well.

Thank you & hope you enjoyed your Thanksgiving.

I'm no expert but I've been posting on these boards for years and I see parent after parent taking on a truckload of guilt to the point where it paralyzes them in fear and self-deprecation and depression for things that were largely out of their control.

Yes, it takes a long time for some doctors to read the latest information and brain science. They go with what they learned in Med school which is that PDs result from extreme abuse and trauma over 75% of the time. I had a long discussion with an excellent pediatric neuropsych who thought that I was crazy because I was worried about PDs developing in my then adolescent step children. These days it has been shown that esp with BPD and also sociopathy and psychopathy which can be called ASPD,  there is a lot more going on with the brain that can be actually found in MRI's and brain scans.

I hope that, just like Autism, that parents stop being looked at as the cause as they were up until so many children were dx'ed that they realized that a lot more was going on here. 

There are much better ways to spend your energy when you have a PD child than feeling guilty!

[Ijustwantpeace!]

You nailed it again Latchkey and described me (!) "paralyzes them in fear and self-deprecation and depression for things that were largely out of their control" to a T!  That's exactly where I've been for years and YEARS & finally now TRYING like hell to move on b/c I "now know" that it's much, much more than parenting PD children!  From all I've read PD's, Conduct Disorders & Oppositional Disorders can be & very likely has to do with the frontal lobe of the brain (amygdala).  But go explain that to friends and family that "judge" The Mother!   

Thank you Latchkey; you most definitely understand and relate.  I hope you had a peaceful and ha, Fattening Thanksgiving.

[mdana]

My therapist taught me that when we bring another human being onto the planet there are 3 things that determine their course in life:  1. - is their biological/genetic make up (each parent contributes 1/2 genetically  2.- the environment in which they are raised inside and outside of the womb (nutrition, parenting, schooling, political/social/cultural economic influences, stress and exposure to toxins, etc...) and 3. their own unique and individual soul path

As I have thought of each category -- even environmental, the influences are many and over time.  In the maternal womb alone --over the course of 9 months the fetus is exposed to maternal fluctuations in blood pressure, oxygenation content, hormones, nutrition, toxins in the environment, stress --- and any one of those influences during a critical time of brain development  can affect the health of the fetus.   

Beyond that -- all we can do is our best--- accept accountability when needed, make amends, change what can be improved and recognize what's beyond our control. PD's of course often can't accept accountability (that's my daughter).  So -- I have let that go too.  I don't expect that she can or will accept personal accountability.  Sometimes I do have hope --- but so far, there has been no evidence that she can.

Not sure that helps ... that's been how my family has navigated PD's.

M

[biggerfish]

Thank you everyone. It is so helpful to know that even if I had been the perfect mom, my kid would still be like this. Also, I really turned a corner this weekend because she now has a diagnosis. I started a new topic about that: http://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=70179.0

[Vi]

Guilt can paralyze a person.  I have used affirmations to combat it.  For example, "I was the best mother I could be.'', "I am a good mother."  Saying things like that to myself over and over makes me shoo guilt away,  (I once read that an actress who wasn't all that pretty would stand in front of her mirror before the play began saying over and over to herself, "I am the most beautiful woman in the world."  And when she went out upon the stage, she WAS the most beautiful woman in the world.

Our brains are ours to program or reprogram.  And sometimes detaching from an adult child can bring forth small miracles  I had that happen at Thanksgiving this year.  For the first time in his life, my adult son asked if I had a place to go to celebrate the holiday.  The sincerity of his concern was in his voice.  It was truly a blessing.

The behavior we model to our children is noticed  whether they or we know it or not.  If we refuse to be abused and treated without respect, we make a stand about what is good and right in life without saying a word.

And, just in case you're wondering, I tried the mirror thing too.  At 78, with a face filled with wrinkles and blemishes, I still feel like the most beautiful woman in the world when I leave my home.

Hope every one of you has a great day.  I plan to as well.

[bopper]

I beleive that mental health concerns are still physical medical problems...they are just problems of the brain chemistry or genetics or what have you.  If your child had diabetes or leukemia would you blame yourself?

[mdana]

Bopper
That’s a good point!
M

[ce-ca]

Wow, great topic, new here and trying to come to terms with what I now realize is my uBPD adult daughter.
Always difficult when she hit her teens, father died when she was a toddler, much rejection
by his family but she and I had a good life. She was diagnosed in teens with bipolar, anxiety and OCD,
later with depression. Had occurred to me in the last couple  years her mood swings where too fast and
short to be either type of bipolar. Ironically I am an old psych nurse and had never liked dealing with BPD.
Been beating myself up feeling guilty and trying to figure out where I went wrong, our life seemed so good
for so many years other than her fathers death. Now have a sweet granddaughter and worried about her too.
Seems no end in sight with the stress, drama and concerns.

[ce-ca]

biggerfish,

Thanks for your thoughts, I do agree.  Been a notably rougher last 6 months. I am gathering strength and reminding myself
of many things from just reading what others have to say.

[Gardener]

Thank you for all of the ideas and input in this posting.

I have struggled for a very long time about what I did wrong when raising my DD who seems so mixed up.  She has received so much therapy and extra things and yet she still has emotional issues that are off the wall.

I am working on detaching.  It is so hard, but it seems to be helping.