Why?

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Twinkletoes88

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Why?
« on: November 30, 2017, 04:35:23 PM »
Iím crying right now and feeling really stupid. Someone help me understand this please.

Me and my uNPDm havenít spoken for nearly 5 weeks. Nothing at all. Me and my fiancť are due to have Xmas dinner with her this year (which was agreed in October). Clearly I no longer want to do that. Well, my fianceís Parents have just asked if we want to spend the day with them and want an answer tonight....

I felt scared instantly. Nervous. Stressed and now Iím crying without really knowing why. What is wrong with me?

I donít WANT to spend Xmas day there with her. I am not even speaking to her and yet Iím petrified to commit to his parents when my mother doesnít know.

Help!

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PinkDress

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Re: Why?
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2017, 04:47:01 PM »
Maybe you're afraid because you know if you tell her "no" there will be hell to pay. She'll rage OR if she's covert lay the guilt on thick.

You're an adult - you don't really NEED to spend it with either family, unless you both truly want to. Is your finances family company worth keeping? If you'd prefer their company, do it. Or tell both families you'd like a quiet holiday, just the two of you at home and wish them a happy time. :)
"In the long run, the sharpest weapon of all is a kind and gentle spirit." Anne Frank

"God sees people as His own treasures, so be careful how you treat them."

"No one warns you about the amount of mourning in growth."

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lesbihonest

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Re: Why?
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2017, 04:57:02 PM »
I have been in similar situations as you are in now and it hurts and it is confusing and I'm sorry you are going through it.  For me, it feels like I'm being disloyal to my uBDPm if I don't tell her what my options are before ditching my plans with her.  My mom and I haven't been in the situation where we haven't talked to each other for longer than a few days (we regularly speak on the phone about 2-5 times a day, so a silence of even one day is "a big deal") , but I have had countless times of crisis when I had made a commitment to my mom for something and needed to make other plans or arrangements that were in direct conflict. 

I think the sense of loyalty I feel for my mom is a genetically desirable trait-- kids that were loyal and bonded well to their parents had the protection of adults, kids that didn't were eaten by wild animals.  But, I think this comes to bite me in the butt when my mom is being particularly toxic.  Ultimately, I would suggest doing whatever you will enjoy the most.  If you stay loyal to you plans with your mom and they don't end up happening because you still aren't speaking, how will you feel?  On the other hand, how will you feel being out and spending the day with your fiance's parents if you are back on good terms with you mom by then?  Would there be a possibility of your mom joining you and your fiance and your fiance's parents should your relationship improve by then? 


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Twinkletoes88

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Re: Why?
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2017, 05:14:20 PM »
I think this is an example of the fear I would have felt as a child. Like you say, you had to attach as a child so you could survive for me there is such a huge amount of fear attached to effectively saying no to my mother.

Logic is telling me - you have had an awful falling out, youíre considering going No Contact, she kicked you out of her house. She hasnít and will not apologise to you for the things she done to you growing up... why on earth should you feel bad about not spending Xmas day with her?

Feelings say: Iím petrified

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moglow

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Re: Why?
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2017, 05:22:08 PM »
Would you be comfortable spending a set - albeit limited! - amount of time at your mother's rather than the entire day? Brunch maybe? A short visit before heading to a special holiday service at church? You and your fiance don't have to spend your Christmases bouncing from house to house regardless. Now might be a good time to think about how you want to spend your holidays in the future.

What about seeing your mother Christmas eve, and you simply don't mention other plans? There's so much going on during the holidays, friends in from out of town, etc, spending the day anywhere just isn't realistic when you think about it.

It's never easy telling a parent no, and holidays can be even more tricky. Throw in a PD parent ... Just keep in mind that you're an adult now. If she gets mad, she just is. We all get mad/disappointed sometimes and we survive it. Nothing is ever going to go as planned, but learning resilience and flexibility will be your greatest gifts!
"Expectations are disappointments under construction.Ē  ~ Cap'n Spanky

Stop Stinkin' Thinkin'!

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Twinkletoes88

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Re: Why?
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2017, 05:38:20 PM »
After the last 5 weeks of no contact Iíve been debating going no contact forever .... so seeing her Xmas day itself isnít the issue really, itís seeing her at all! X

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louisebt

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Re: Why?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2017, 05:46:55 PM »
I actually had to write my mother a letter telling her I was spending xmas day with my partner not her as I was terrified of the fallout. In PD world, spending a holiday with someone else =utter personal rejection and favouring someone else over them. Cardinal sin right?

I've had ST since and if we do have any sort of relationship going forward I'm sure i'll be hearing until her deathbed about 'that Christmas you had with HIM not ME'.

I'm waiting for the fall/drama crisis/hospital visit/raging waifing in the run up to the big day. I'm still sure she won't let this go unpunished!

I'm ok with that for the payoff of not to have to spend one more depressing, abusive drunken Christmas day managing her mental dysfunction, alcohol use and risk of falls whilst hearing either how much she hates christmas or being torn down to shreds to make her feel better. I cannot wait to veg out on the sofa with my partner eating rubbish and watching rubbish on tv...

Yep, i'm about 5 weeks as well and struggling more and more to think of any reason why i'd want her back in my life at all too!


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Twinkletoes88

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Re: Why?
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2017, 07:24:34 PM »
I actually had to write my mother a letter telling her I was spending xmas day with my partner not her as I was terrified of the fallout. In PD world, spending a holiday with someone else =utter personal rejection and favouring someone else over them. Cardinal sin right?

I've had ST since and if we do have any sort of relationship going forward I'm sure i'll be hearing until her deathbed about 'that Christmas you had with HIM not ME'.

I'm waiting for the fall/drama crisis/hospital visit/raging waifing in the run up to the big day. I'm still sure she won't let this go unpunished!

I'm ok with that for the payoff of not to have to spend one more depressing, abusive drunken Christmas day managing her mental dysfunction, alcohol use and risk of falls whilst hearing either how much she hates christmas or being torn down to shreds to make her feel better. I cannot wait to veg out on the sofa with my partner eating rubbish and watching rubbish on tv...

Yep, i'm about 5 weeks as well and struggling more and more to think of any reason why i'd want her back in my life at all too!



Wow really! 😮

I have just been discussing with my fiancť sending a letter which notifies her I wonít be there at Xmas .... I just donít know what to say! Iíve been putting this off for weeks now. You are so right, it is a cardinal sin and like you said. Itís the fear of what the punishment would be. Itís ultimate rejection in her eyes for sure.

My fiancť just said ďon what terms would we be going there?Ē And I said. I know, itís ridiculous - clearly things arenít going to magically fix themselves so we can play happy families. Ultimately Xmas is just a day right? It shouldnít change anything for us.

5 weeks for you too?! Thatís spooky! With every day we donít speak, the longer I want it to continue like you. Hence why I donít want to break the silence ha

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FromTheSwamp

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Re: Why?
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2017, 12:10:49 AM »
I think this is the kind of awkward situation greeting cards are perfect for.  You could send her a Christmas card now, wishing her a happy Christmas and that you'll be thinking of her but you've decided to spend a quiet Christmas at home (and then make any plans you wish to). 

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broken

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Re: Why?
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2017, 02:19:19 AM »
I can understand the anxiety Christmas is causing, I'm going thru a similar-but-different issue with my family over who we spend the holidays with. 

One thing that stands out, especially after your comment about it being just another day...  Is the reason our NMs make such a big deal out of it.  Your PDm has been content  to not see her daughter for 5 weeks, but may still have expectations for the holiday.  My own NM can rage and pout and divide her children all year, but then on Christmas we are all to step into our role of perfect Family, all gathered around to shower her with attention and gifts.  It makes for better stories for her friends and coworkers.   

Also, I'm sorry, I usually don't comment on another poster's reply, but the response by lesbihonest just made me laugh (in a 'isn't that cute' sort of way).   It was wonderful advice for someone with a more normal family.  I envy anyone who comes from a family where a rational response like this would be perfect.  Isn't it awful that we need to learn how the minds of toxic people work, and every situation requires analyzing?

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WomanInterrupted

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Re: Why?
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2017, 04:08:37 AM »
Twinkletoes - welcome!   :)

You're *not* responsible for your mom's feelings.  You too, Louisebt - and may you have many more holidays where you choose HIM over her!   :thumbup:

Think of it this way - feelings say, "I'm petrified!"

BUT - you are an ADULT.   You live in your own home.  You support yourself.  You pay your own bills.  You have an FOC whom you *chose* and that FOC loves and supports you.

What can your mom actually DO to you?

She can't send you to bed without supper.  She can't ground you.  She can't take away your car keys.  She can't take away your phone or computer time.  She can't spank or hit you!   She can't DO a thing except YELL or POUT.

She only has WORDS.  That's the only weapon she's got left.

Oh...but it's a NASTY weapon because those words get into your head and stay there and she *knows* you feel like that terrified child, all over again.  Appease mommy or suffer the consequences!

What helped me was taking a look around me - house.  Stuff.  Car in the driveway.  Laundry I have to either fold or do.  Dinner I'm going to cook.  Pets we chose to include and rely on us.  Neat stack of upcoming bills that need to be scheduled to be paid.

Adult stuff - more importantly, OUR adult stuff!

Adult.  That is me.  I am an adult and *I get to choose how to spend my time and who I'm going to spend it with.*   8-)

I agree with FromtheSwamp - use a Christmas card to say:

Dear Mom,

We've made other plans this year but we both
(all, if you've got kids/pets she's attached to) hope you have a very Merry Christmas!

Several different things can happen when she gets the card:

1.  Silence.  She doesn't think you mean it and doesn't think you'll DARE.

Oh - DARE!  And even better, DO!   :yes:

2.  The Attack of the Flying Messenger Monkeys!   :aaauuugh:

IGNORE THEM!  If you've got a few folks you *know* are going to stir up crap, preemptively block their numbers.  You'll feel better if you don't have to explain, "We made other plans.  What?  Why is this such a huge deal?  We made other plans.  No, I'm not going to tell you what we're doing and now you're just being rude, so I'm hanging up.." - over and over again.

Or, "This is really none of your concern and I'm not going to discuss it with you.  Goodbye."

Expect the unexpected, when it comes to FMMs - you might *really* be surprised.  People you thought weren't involved, suddenly are - explaining it only as, "This really doesn't concern you..." - hanging up, and blocking their numbers will help you remember, "I'm the one in charge of my life - and I don't have to explain my damned decisions!"   :yes:

And definitely avoid sad, weepy phone messages from your mom, claiming she doesn't know what happened.  She does.  She just wants her Norman Rockwell holiday and lots and lots of prezzies - with the bonus of playing Pin The Blame on The Scapegoat.   :roll:

3.  She sends you a fauxpology, or non-apology on her own Christmas card or calls you with one and it goes something like this:

I'm sorry for whatever you think it is I did, but...
   

And it may go on for a few paragraphs or pages, but it generally starts out the same way and after that ONE word, "but" - becomes an attack on you, blames you, shames you for "making" her upset, she's WORRIED about you, you can't take a joke, your skin is SO thin, you're going to hell, ruining the holidays, he's BRAINWASHING you,  the Bible says, "Honor thy Mother"  - the variants are endless and can be outright abusive to nuanced and extremely covert, all to one goal:  your butt, at her house, where you feel like a child again and are at her mercy.   :sharkbait:

The holidays are YOURS.  Every single day of your life is YOURS.  YOU get to choose the people you'd like to involve - or exclude.

You are NOT responsible for her happiness.  You are, however, responsible for your OWN, and as far as I know - unless somebody changed the rules - you only get one life.   :)

You mentioned going NC - that is your RIGHT as an ADULT.

If that's what you want to do, you can do it right now and block her number on your phone, block the FMMs, block *any* extended FOO you think might get dragged into it - or *want* to be in the thick of it - which includes all social media.  It's just easier if they can't see what you're posting and taunting you with, "Look at our BIG, SHINY CHRISTMAS" stuff - or laying down blame and shame in messages to you.

It's up to you.  There are no right or wrong or even one-size-fits-all answers. 

There's only taking a deep breath and saying, sometimes out loud, to yourself, "I can do this.  I do NOT deserve any of this.  I can't cause it, I can't cure it and I can't control it - and now I'm dropping the rope."

You CAN do *anything you want* - and are *allowed to* - as long as they're legal.   :bigwink:

Maintaining contact with people who treat you like something they'd scrape off the bottom of their shoes is *not required or mandated.*

It's up to you.  Do what you think is best *for you.* 

 :hug:

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all4peace

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Re: Why?
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2017, 10:49:18 AM »
I'm curious as to why our fiance's parents "just" asked but still need an immediate answer?

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daughter

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Re: Why?
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2017, 11:22:08 AM »
I suggest making alternate holiday week travel plans altogether, that for once omits both FOO Families, that provides "safe" private-time for you and SO.  There's no law that requires us to spend holidays with our parents.  There's no obligation to rigidly comply to implied expectation that we will always "be there" on holidays with them.  Plans made in October don't require you to "be there" in December; circumstances have certainly changed.

And NPD parents often need to feel actual consequences for their bad behavior, if they are to ever learn to modify their bad behavior impulses. 


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bopper

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Re: Why?
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2017, 01:46:37 PM »
"Mother, I wanted to let you know we have made alternate plans for Christmas so won't be visiting you/hosting you."

If there was a big incident, then you could say "Given what happened in October, I feel it best we don't get together during the Holidays. I wanted to let you know so you can make alternate plans."

You feel guilty, of course, because 1) It is natural to want to be around your family during the Holidays 2) She has probably trained you to be responsible for her happiness

Her actions have consequences. You are protecting yourself from further harm, not punishing her.
Just because they are incapable of loving you, doesn't mean that you are unlovable.
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Healing Finally

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Re: Why?
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2017, 03:40:43 PM »
Hi Twinkletoes88  :wave: - I'm in the same boat too! 

Long story short, I've been excluded from all family functions for 4 years now, due my being scapegoated by my family as they refuse to acknowledge my sister's uNPD, or at least her need to manipulate EVERYTHING.  This Thanksgiving my son was going to "put his foot down" and say enough is enough, but instead, after a family discussion, he was given the task to tell me I should rewrite my apology letter to my sister.  OMG :stars:

Now I'm supposed to spend Christmas with my mother and son, and I am freaking out! Bottomline, my mother refuses to acknowledge my needs due to her fierce need to defend my sister, and no matter what I do, she can't see her behavior.  So, I've been going LC lately, and right now I have NO desire to see anyone.  I hate hearing the Christmas music, and the idea of decorating just makes me sick.

I understand your crying.  You are in the FOG (Fear Obligation Guilt)!  Keep remembering you can come back Out of the FOG and save yourself, but it is not easy to do.  I feel such obligation to support my mother.  Good feedback to your question.
:hug:
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