T says "They are unsafe and ineligible for reconciliation"

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all4peace

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Re: T says "They are unsafe and ineligible for reconciliation"
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2018, 11:38:02 AM »
daughterofbpd, I'm heading into a very long break from them. I agree. This is just too exhausting.

louisebt, perhaps I am the strong-willed, stubborn person my dad once shouted to me that I was, as this makes me even more resolved to have a very long break from them both.

carrots, thank you. :bighug:

springbutterfly, thank you.

practical, I'm sorry you have been through this too, repeatedly. I think this is a new level of acceptance I am reaching. Maybe there is even more grief to work though, as my T warned me of.

zephyrblue, I'm so sorry for the pain you have faced also. :bighug:

sandpiper, thank you. I am so thankful when our Ts know when it is time to step out of their usual pattern and just tell us we need to protect ourselves.

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raindrop

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Re: T says "They are unsafe and ineligible for reconciliation"
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2018, 04:22:12 AM »
All4peace I'm so sorry for what you experienced and so glad you have a T who could validate that and help you stand up for yourself. As you continue your journey separate from your parents I hope you continue to surround yourself with love and support :hug:
"Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
"Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
Piglet was comforted by this.
- A.A. Milne.

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carrots

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Re: T says "They are unsafe and ineligible for reconciliation"
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2018, 07:28:43 AM »
She wasn't one to interfere & would guide me to find my own inner wisdom.

This is what my T is like too. So I was even feeling a little envious of you, all4peace, having a T telling you your parents are unsafe etc. Except I sometimes do healing retreats and at one of these both therapists suggested I never go near FOO (parents or sibs) again without taking a very good friend who will unequivocally be on my side, as a sort of emotional body guard.  If you have to take a body guard, why go at all?

 :applause: on your continued progress, all4peace!

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all4peace

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Re: T says "They are unsafe and ineligible for reconciliation"
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2018, 10:55:57 AM »
I've asked for many months of silence from them, not to be broken until they're able to come to the table with love, respect and humility. I know it sounds like I'm setting them up to fail, but I can't see this working any other way. I got a response from uNBPDm right away, but stuck it in a separate folder without opening it. I'll let T read it to see if there's anything I should know.

enN?f hasn't responded. I gave my local B a heads up with very few details. B is horrified that dad is going on as if nothing has happened, and hoovering (my term, not brother's) my B's family instead. My parents seem to have no concept of healthy family relations and that the act of being really friendly to B while in this conflict with me might be a little odd to my B. Especially since all of us kids are asking for the same thing--decency and honesty.

Anyway, one really interesting thing is that since unburderning myself of the most troubling aspect of childhood in therapy 2+ weeks ago, one body system has completely normalized for the first time in years. I didn't notice at first, but now as I look back I realize it started literally the very next day...normal. That right there is the validation I need, and I want to hold onto my respect for our body's ability to say its own truths.

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Malini

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Re: T says "They are unsafe and ineligible for reconciliation"
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2018, 12:33:45 PM »
First of all, so happy for you that you are already feeling the health benefits of what you're working through in therapy.

I think it's a very smart move to get your therapist to 'vet' whatever communication your M sent you.

As to your B, the more I move forward, the more I realise how much triangulation between siblings is a central tool to how our parents manage their families. All the time my Narents were battling my SGB they tried to sweet talk me and get me on their side against SGB and it still continues to this day.  I really hope you can preserve your sibling relationships, sometimes it's all that's is salvageable in the unholy mess of PD families.

In addition, I think it is so helpful for people like us who have, at best, a wavering sense of normality due to our upbringing, to have a therapist who points out where the abnormality lies, without waiting forever for us to figure it out ourselves. Lastly, your therapist gave you permission to consider going NC by  indicating that they are unsafe. On the one hand it validates what we've gone through and again is so helpful for all of us with a PhD in people pleasing.

It sounds as if you have a lot of things in place for the likely event, that despite being relatively ignoring parents (unlike your ILS) up till now,  that they might ramp up their communications to you, because you dared to set a clear boundary.

Good for you all4peace.   :yourock: :hug:

"How do you do it?" said night
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"I keep it simple." said light
"One day at a time" - Lemn Sissay

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zephyrblue

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Re: T says "They are unsafe and ineligible for reconciliation"
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2018, 02:04:30 PM »
First of all, so happy for you that you are already feeling the health benefits of what you're working through in therapy.

I think it's a very smart move to get your therapist to 'vet' whatever communication your M sent you.

...

Good for you all4peace.   :yourock: :hug:

 :yeahthat:

Your compassion, bravery, and strength are admirable, all4peace.  You're loving and honoring yourself and your FOC.  It's beautiful.   :bighug:

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Spring Butterfly

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Re: T says "They are unsafe and ineligible for reconciliation"
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2018, 02:46:04 PM »
Wow so glad you're body systems are settling and normalizing. That sure does say lots right there.
Every interaction w/ PD persons results in damage-plan accordingly, make time to heal
Individuation is one key to emotional freedom
It's foolish to expect of others what they have no capacity to give
my Empowered Growth blog

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practical

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Re: T says "They are unsafe and ineligible for reconciliation"
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2018, 10:43:49 AM »
:hug: You are giving yourself the time to heal you so richly deserve and clearly it is already having a positive effect.

Your F's behavior reminds me of a bee who has taken all the nectar from one flower and is now on the next one, your B.
If Im not towards myself, who is towards myself? And when Im only towards myself, what am I? And if not now, when? (Rabbi Hillel)

"I can forgive, but I cannot afford to forget." (Moglow)

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elly87

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Re: T says "They are unsafe and ineligible for reconciliation"
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2018, 02:00:06 PM »
Allpeace, I'm so glad you have a great therapist....I also had a pretty horrific childhood and basically "stuffed" a lot of what went on in my family....after allowing my parents to continue their behaviors in my marriage and with my children, I started pulling back....when I got remarried to a wonderfully patient, astute, educated man, he gently pointed out that the behaviors in my FOO were definitely NOT healthy, NOT normal, and NOT my fault.....he listened, he didn't judge, he emphasized, and it made a TON of difference in my life....I still didn't have a name for what was wrong in my family.....

I began graduate school and in the course of my studies, I learned about PDs....I literally almost fainted....my mother has every single "marker" for BPD and my father for NPD....studying about PD's was literally a textbook version of my childhood.....through my studies, I learned that PD's rarely improve; rarely accept ANY responsibility for their actions/behaviors; and rarely respond to any attempts to attend therapy or family counseling.  My older sibling GC is not a PD, just a very difficult, bossy, know-it-all person....my other sibling is most likely BPD and has progressively deteriorated over the past 20 years and it starting to repeat the same behaviors of my uBPDm.

After an entire lifetime of abuse, I went NC....I knew there was no other way....I didn't want my children to grow up involved in storm of PD's...I was scared, too....BUT, I can tell you, it was, by far, the BEST decision I ever made in my life....it has been over 6 years now, and my life is so much happier, more freedom, less stress, less worry, less ruminating over and over and over....

It WILL get better....you will grow and bloom and flourish....you really will...i promise :yeahthat:

overitall, was there any retaliation after going NC? I am considering it and am very worried about the harassment that will be sure to ensue, I am even concerned about my parents litigating me for 'grandparents rights' as they've mentioned grandparents rights several times in the course of my divorce in the context of 'if anything should ever happen to me, would we have visitation with our grandchildren'.

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atticusfinch

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Re: T says "They are unsafe and ineligible for reconciliation"
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2018, 04:01:29 PM »
This is so sad-- I can't imagine how hard it must be to process this. On the other hand, I'm glad you had some validation. I know I tend to slip back into thinking I'm the one at fault, and I just need to be a better daughter (ie, lose myself and become whatever PD parent wants).

 :bighug:

Just know you're not in this alone. I'm glad you can come here for support. I definitely understand how devastating it is to feel that your parents aren't, and maybe never will be, what you needed and continue to need.

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all4peace

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Re: T says "They are unsafe and ineligible for reconciliation"
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2018, 01:35:34 PM »
raindrop, one thing that has come out of therapy--regarding IL relationships, marriage and childhood--is that I have never, ever had someone in a protective role. I think that may be why this once T stepped out of his usual role and just laid it out for me clearly. When I came back 2 weeks later, wondering again if it was really not ok to reconcile, he laid it out very clearly again. I am thankful for that. It is incredibly hard to not step right back into danger, and I know I needed someone very, very clearly telling me not to.

carrots, I'm glad you had someone tell you that also! I think my T (maybe most therapists?) doesn't see it as his job to tell me what to do, but to help me find my way on my own. However, in this instance, he did just say it.

malini, may I ask how your sibling relationship is at this point? I actually think my siblings and I are going to make it through this. uNBPDm is way too overt for even my siblings to stay in the FOG. B is uncovering an unholy mess that M has made, and my S asked me a very pointed question recently about uNBPDm that makes me think she's cross-referencing info (M lies ALL the time).

zephyr, thank you! I just can't bear to drag out the healing longer by reading whatever they said (F has now responded also). And F already asked about contact with our kids, within days. My parents have gone at least 6 months at a time without seeing or talking to my kids (despite living within 2 hrs of them), so I reminded them of that and told them they could contact our kids again once the adult relationships were actively being repaired. I still need to have a conversation with both our kids about the state of things with my parents. Ugh. Just tired right now.

spring butterfly, every time I tempted to minimize anything, I remember that. As the book says, "the body keeps the score."

practical, and my poor B is being forced OOTF by his own contact with our parents, and his wife's total exhaustion in dealing with our uNBPDm. So, for once, he's not seeing it as a positive effort by our enF but instead a bizarre response (since B is a parent himself).

elly87, that sounds frightening! I do believe there are quite a few older threads on PD parents who fight for grandparent visitation and hope you can find some support!

atticusfinch, I have been discovering that I "pre-grieve." I feel like I have been coming to a realization of this for a very long time, and their responses over the last couple years to any kind of boundary or conversation just confirmed it. I've been angry, grieving, frustrated, sad--all of that. But I also feel like this last bit of communication simply verified in writing what I already knew in my heart. I'm sure the grief will come and go. For now, though, my focus is on my marriage and kids. That's why I've been clearing out all this space--to finally focus on the relationships that are the most vital in my life at this point. Thank you for your support!

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Malini

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Re: T says "They are unsafe and ineligible for reconciliation"
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2018, 03:03:42 PM »
All4peace,
To answer your question, as we are both NC, we're out of the web of parental triangulation and manipulation and any past hoovering attempts pitting us against each other have immediately been shut down. I know that the reconciliation with my SGB would never have been tolerated by Narents. Our Narents made us choose between them or each other and we chose our sibling? We took turns supporting each other whilst coming OOTF and I'm glad to have someone in my life who witnessed the parental abuse firsthand and found sharing it with him and vice versa very validating.

Because of the long sibling estrangement, family business/money issues, our relationship has ups and downs, but I would generally say it is mostly 'good enough', and sometimes wonderful. We still trigger each other (unintentionally) with behaviours or even physical resemblance so it's all about managing the triggers for me, at least.

 :wave:
"How do you do it?" said night
"How do you wake and shine?"
"I keep it simple." said light
"One day at a time" - Lemn Sissay

'I think it's important to realise that you can miss something, but not want it back' Paul Coelho

'We accept the love we think we deserve' Stephen Chbosky