Yes, they DO get it

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MargaritaBulgakov

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Yes, they DO get it
« on: February 11, 2018, 11:05:06 AM »
If you are anything like me, the biggest obstacle to your going NC and sticking with it is your fear that your PDs just don't understand, or that they just don't get it. You have likely turned yourself inside out for as long as you can remember trying to find new ways to explain it in hopes that your PD would finally, finally get it. Maybe then they would apologize and you could start rebuilding your relationship.

Your insecurity about whether or not they get it keeps you in a state of limbo. On the one hand you are running out of ways to explain it and your boundaries are never respected. You feel that you are being pushed into a tighter and tighter corner. On the other hand, your PD genuinely seems distraught and just unable to understand. They love you soooo much. They are just praying for you everyday. You believe their love for you is both dysfunctional but also real. And so you are stuck. If you end the relationship you end the dysfunction but you also lose the love. So you waffle. You instigate NC in hopes that they'll finally get it but they don't. Instead they up the love ante. They fill up your email, mailbox, and voicemail with their love and desperation but never the thing you really need which is their respect via an awknowledgement and maybe even an apology (although if you're like me you probably would've accepted just an awknowledgement) of how they hurt you.

But what if you knew for a fact that you had been and are continuing to be played? That your PDs have understood perfectly that they have hurt you and are continuing to do do? Would you be able to walk away then? My guess is you would. I think many of us coming here (if not most or even all) secretly or openly suspect this. And in some ways we are looking for some kind of hint or validation of this. Not because we want to believe that a person or persons whom we have loved our whole lives who were supposed to love unconditionally had actually played us but because it would give us a clear answer and a way out of this damned limbo. Because the not knowing if we should work on this relationship or get far away is exhausting.

If you're anything like me, there is a logical objective little voice humming around in your brain that is clearly telling you that you've been played. Your PD is deliberately and methodically breaking you one piece at a time. So why don't you listen to that voice?

Two reasons:

1.) You are treating this like a trial in which you are the prosecution and your PD is the defense. You have an enormous amount of evidence but no smoking gun. The defense is very good at dismantling your evidence. Everything can be explained away or didn't happen or was gotten by incorrect means or the witnesses were unreliable.

2.) You have no motive. You have lots of evidence but you can't for the life of you understand WHY your PD would profess so much love for you and indeed occasionally act lovingly toward you only to sabotage you and your relationship in the long run.

Because that's what you feel like, don't you? Perpetually sabotaged. Just when you think things might get better the ball drops and your PD introduces new drama for you to navigate. You try to set boundaries, you try to explain why their actions were not and are not okay but you are hit with an arsenal of denials, victim blaming, gas lighting, and martyrdom.

So you go NC as a last ditch effort. But then the doubts creep in. And you wonder if they just don't get it.

They do.

You are being played.

1.) You don't need a trial with a smoking gun to prove this. The answer is simple. We all make mistakes. Hurt the people we love. Say and do the wrong thing. Think back to a time when you did something hurtful to someone you cared about. What happened when the person confronted you? You were likely surprised. You didn't realize how what you did looked to others. You were likely embarrassed. Yeah, that was dumb in retrospect. You likely felt remorse. You want this loved one to know that you are sorry. You likely apologized and made the appropriate amends. You remember it to this day. It made an impression on you.

This is how a person who loves and respects (or even just respects) someone else will respond when confronted with bad behavior. Your PD has never done any of those. Your PD is not sorry and does not respect or love you.

2.) But what about motive? Rest assure your PD has ample motive.

The psychology of your PD is an individual consumed with fantasies of victimhood and a burning desire for revenge.

Your PD is very very pissed off at you. And no she's never going to admit it. But let's face it. You already know exactly why. Aw yes, that little voice of reason inside your head already has the answer.

See you committed some sin. Let's call it Original Sin (OS). And just like its Biblical namesake OS has infinite punishment for a finite "crime". In your PD's warped mind, (s)he is the victim and you are the perp. (S)he is collecting her dues and punishing you justly through crazy making and sabotage. She will ruin your wedding, your finances, your relationships, your career. She will humiliate and humble you. You will always feel insecure and fearful for having crossed her (please use your own appropriate pronouns).

But WHY?

You know why.

Some of us had the audacity of being born and therefore ruining our PD's happy child-free life. For many PD parents the simple realization that children are not blank slates or unformed clay to be molded feels like a royal insult. They got stuck with feeding and clothing you for 18 years and you failed to adopt their vision for your future. Maybe you studied the wrong thing or married the wrong person or didn't play ball or didn't attend church or voted for the other guy or you weren't a virgin on your wedding night.  Whatever it was you failed to live up to your end of the bargain and you PD is irate.

Some PDs are even more petty. I've heard parents complain that their child was always difficult that said child even fought them on the changing table. So yeah, maybe your OS was committed before you could string two words together.

Some PDs continue to hold the difficulties of adolescents against their now adult children. If you're in your thirties and you still feel like a teenager whenever you're PD is in the room with you it is because your PD is still pissed at you for that time you snuck out of the house and smoked pot with your friends.

It won't matter to your PD how responsible, hard working, and successful you are now (in fact that might even be your OS - you're making your PD look bad!!) your PD still resents the hell out of you.

And she always will.

So there you go. You ARE being played. Your PD knows exactly what she's doing and why she's doing it.


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LightOrb

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Re: Yes, they DO get it
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2018, 11:23:58 AM »
Margarita, how did you know I needed this, this instant? A few moments ago I had enough of the increasingly desperate loving chat messages my uNPD F was sending me, and I told him what they have done in the past 6 months since I reconnected with them because I needed their support. Of course I did not get even acknowledgement of those things. Just an offended "ok, thank you. I won't let your M see these messages".

I needed support and you gave me exactly what I needed before I even asked. Thank you so much, really.

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Jennyoo7

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Re: Yes, they DO get it
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2018, 11:38:44 AM »
This pisses me off. All that trying and forcing myself to be vulnerable with her was for nothing! She claimed, after me crying and saying how hurt and scared I was to resume contact with my sister numerous times, that she finally understands I'm coming from a place of hurt and not anger but still didn't change her behaviour.

I agree about looking for motive and having all the evidence and I can think back to a few times I would of hurt her ego but I was a kid or provoked. I have to keep reminding myself that I would never, ever, go out of my way to hurt anyone's feelings for the sake of just hurting someone's feelings. Which I know as I type is what has lead to me feeling like Im not a good person for as long as I can remember. I've had some life changing words come out of her anger towards me, things that make me question my existence to this day. As a parent I wouldn't put that on my children, I'd never want them to feel like they don't belong and do and say whatever it takes to try to make them feel secure and loved. That instinct is strong, it comes without even thinking mostly. There's my evidence of what I'm dealing with...

I'm going to keep reading your post every time I get on the evidence train and trying to prove to myself I'm not being that mean person I've been taught to believe I was. Thank you so much for posting.

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Gaining Clarity

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Re: Yes, they DO get it
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2018, 12:28:49 PM »
Such a powerful post, Margarita! Your insight and eloquence into our PD FOOs' motives is so compelling and a great reminder for those times when we doubt ourselves/trying to convince ourselves that things could be different. Thank you!

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louisebt

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Re: Yes, they DO get it
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2018, 06:01:56 PM »
This post is pure gold. Thank you. I have cut and pasted it and may even print it out and post it eye level in my kitchen as an 'anti-fog' device!

 :cheer:

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Saywhat

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Re: Yes, they DO get it
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2018, 01:05:03 PM »
 :yeahthat: :yeahthat: :yeahthat:

Amazing! Exactly what I needed on a day like today, when self doubt creeps in.

I will print this and keep it in my wallet to always remember where I come from.

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all4peace

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Re: Yes, they DO get it
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2018, 01:22:29 PM »
I've been working on not obsessing so much about PD motives and intentions (and instead dealing with their behavior), but I always get stuck at the same place you did--when HEALTHY people hurt or offend others, we tend to either realize it immediately without needing to have it pointed out, or when it is pointed out to us we feel terrible. I can remember hurtful or thoughtless things I have done from decades ago, and they are pretty small compared to how the PDs in my life have behaved. It is such a sticking point for me, the place where I--like you--realize that PDs definitely are not behaving at all like most people behave.

I used to sob to my mom on the phone about the ways I wished she could be a more caring and involved mother.

Now that our relationship has crumbled, she wants me to "tell her how she needs to change," immediately after viciously characterizing me in a highly unkind ways. The things I've said...she forgot and never changed. The things I've done...were horribly cruel, angry and unkind to her. The boundaries I set were immediately violated, and when I held them I was said to be highly controlling and manipulative. But I'm supposed to look right into the jaws of the lion and open up my heart yet again?....not happening.

Sometimes the only way to untangle these webs is to turn the behavior around 180 and look at how we or other people behave in these same types of situations, and then suddenly it gets really clear.

Thanks for an enlightening post!

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bohemian butterfly

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Re: Yes, they DO get it
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2018, 02:02:09 PM »
Like others have said, you posted this right when I needed to read something like this.

I'm stuck in limbo.  Getting love bombed by my mother at the moment but am totally uncomfortable because I know that it is not genuine.  If it was, I would not be here, in this forum.

I was brainwashed and conditioned to: feel her feelings and think her thoughts (thinking they were/are my own).  I was brainwashed to be confused.  Her "love" is just a new tactic because she has realized I am no longer afraid of standing up and/or cutting her off.  If I don't respond to her "love" I am the bad guy. 


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Gromit

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Re: Yes, they DO get it
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2018, 07:14:50 AM »
 :yeahthat:

Wonderful post Margarita

Thank you

Gromit

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Obliviot

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Re: Yes, they DO get it
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2018, 09:39:17 AM »
This post and the "Abuse is a choice" post have helped me finally start processing something that I thought I'd never be able to process, something I had resigned to long ago as "I just don't get people and clearly never will".  Love you guys, love this forum.

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Marisa

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Re: Yes, they DO get it
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2018, 03:34:11 PM »
This post is so powerful. I'm still processing it... Thank you so much for helping me connect the dots.

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gratitude

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Re: Yes, they DO get it
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2018, 02:23:26 AM »
Wow - you hit the nail on the head!

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MargaritaBulgakov

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Re: Yes, they DO get it
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2018, 10:02:23 AM »
Hey to everyone who responded to this post. I just wanted to say thank you for all the positive responses. It has really meant a lot to me.

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elly87

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Re: Yes, they DO get it
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2018, 02:26:58 PM »
thank you so much for this. seriously. thank you.

while ive learned to respond the way I need to to the PDs in my life, I still often do so with a nagging- but what if they mean well now? am I misjudging them? am I being a bitch for ignoring? and the most insidious....by ignoring this 'nice' text, am I CAUSING the tensions between us?

deep down I know I am getting played, as you so eloquently wrote, because all of the pieces fit into that crazy making puzzle.
 I just caught my ex attempting to steal money from me by stating that he paid for a kid's expense and asking for reimbursement, only to find out via email from the vendor that he never made such a payment. after confronting him on it he write 'think what you think.'

hours later he sends me a photo of the kids and a youtube clip of something I found funny when we were married writing: 'I finally found it!' underneath the link. as though we are besties. as though I didn't just catch him lying and stealing.

I have gotten off the roller coaster ride and left that hellish amusement park altogether. your post reinforces that decision and more importantly, calms my non PD mind by reminding me that this is PD behavior- it doesn't make sense to me because I'm not ill but either way, I know it and believe it!

THANK YOU!

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JustKathy

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Re: Yes, they DO get it
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2018, 04:28:31 PM »
Margarita, I also struggled with not knowing if she got it or not. My N-mother had so-called "amnesia" for years, pretending that she had blacked out or couldn't remember stages of my life where her abuse was the worst (my high school years, the period after I ran away from home.) I went to several therapists to see if they could determine if she was faking this or not, and all told me these people are so convincing, there was simply no way to know.

BUT, something happened after I went NC. She sent me a letter, a three-page tirade, telling what a great mother she had been, and how unfairly I had treated her. The letter included references to all the things she had "blacked out," in writing and in vivid detail. She knew what she had done to me and remembered it all with perfect clarity. I'm sure she never imagined that I'd ever grow the backbone to cut her off, but yeah, she knew.

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JustKathy

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Re: Yes, they DO get it
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2018, 04:35:28 PM »
Quote
Some PDs are even more petty. I've heard parents complain that their child was always difficult that said child even fought them on the changing table.

My mother told me I was a bad girl from day one, because it hurt giving birth to me. My brother, the Golden Child and third born, was a good boy because his delivery was an easy one. I was the firstborn, so of course it hurt, but she blamed me personally as if I had done it on purpose. Plotted in the womb, I guess.  ::)