CPTSD - Personality Disorder?

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Summer Sun

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CPTSD - Personality Disorder?
« on: February 24, 2018, 04:16:08 PM »
A question for the moderators - is CPTSD considered a PD for this forum?  There are a couple of recent posts which appear to imply this which is a bit triggering as I have CPTSD but understand this is a consequence of a lifetime of trauma and abuse from FOO uPD’s.  I do not see my own symptoms are hurtful to others, mostly myself, although I have made much progress.

I know there is a sister site for those of us with CPTSD which suggests support and opportunity for growth for those of us that suffer from this. 

Summer Sun
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xredshoesx

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Re: CPTSD - Personality Disorder?
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2018, 06:13:44 PM »
to my understanding it can be co-morbid or unrelated to PD (like many things).   living with someone with a PD/uPD can definitely be a causation factor.   

this is from our sister forum's website
http://www.outofthestorm.website/causes/

can you report the posts?

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practical

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Re: CPTSD - Personality Disorder?
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2018, 02:40:10 PM »
They are treated as two distinct things, here and in the DSM. If my recollection is right, sometimes people with cPTSD get misdiagnosed with a PD.
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LightOrb

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Re: CPTSD - Personality Disorder?
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2018, 04:31:36 PM »
They are treated as two distinct things, here and in the DSM. If my recollection is right, sometimes people with cPTSD get misdiagnosed with a PD.

My trauma T told me sometimes cPTSD gets diagnosed as BPD. I was so afraid she was going to tell me I was Borderline.

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carrots

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Re: CPTSD - Personality Disorder?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2018, 04:24:43 AM »
If my recollection is right, sometimes people with cPTSD get misdiagnosed with a PD.

Unfortunately I think it happens a bit more often than 'sometimes'. As therapists and psychiatrists become better informed about CPTSD, I hope there'll be fewer misdiagnoses. I was misdiagnosed with NPD once and BPD a few times, just sort of off-the-cuff. "You had a problem with your old T? You must have BPD!", "You self-harm? You must have BPD!" There are some similar symptoms between BPD and CPTSD (e.g. possibility of self-harm) but there are definite differences too. 

The difference between CPTSD and BPD is briefly explained here http://www.outofthestorm.website/symptoms/  as is the difference between PTSD and CPTSD. Professionals who don't accept the existence of CPTSD or don't really understand it might misdiagnose people as BPD because of the CPTSD symptoms that don't fit PTSD.

Maybe comorbidity is also possible? Idk.


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Spring Butterfly

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Re: CPTSD - Personality Disorder?
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2018, 09:04:31 AM »
If anyone here suggests cPTSD as a personality disorder please use the report to moderator link bottom right of the post so we can review and help members understand cPTSD is not PD. We generally respond that referring to cPTSD or PTSD as a personality disorder here can potentially trigger members. Many come here seeking sanctuary and safety, reeling from cPTSD in response to the trauma received at the hands of recurring abuse. We count on our members to flag posts for us to review because as volunteers and fellow members with all sorts of real life stuff as well we can't possibly be out there reading every post.
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Summer Sun

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Re: CPTSD - Personality Disorder?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2018, 10:10:38 PM »
Exactly, Spring Butterfly, I was triggered, I will try to find the post to report.
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Hazy111

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Re: CPTSD - Personality Disorder?
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2018, 02:11:31 PM »
I dont for once want to be triggering for Summer Sun or others, but I think there is a fundamental  issue with understanding what C-PTSD is.

Peter Walker  and other therapists in the field believe it to be the term best used to describe the overall  trauma experienced in childhood often at the hands of dysfunctional parental care.

Ive taken this quote from his website as it describes it well.

Written by Pete Walker
What may I have been misdiagnosed with?
Renowned traumatologist, John Briere, is said to have quipped that if Complex PTSD were ever given its due – that is, if the role of dysfunctional parenting in adult psychological disorders was ever fully recognized, the DSM (The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders used by all mental health professionals) would shrink to the size of a thin pamphlet. It currently resembles a large dictionary. In my experience, many clients with Complex PTSD have been misdiagnosed with various anxiety and depressive disorders, as well as bipolar, narcissistic, codependent and borderline disorders. Further confusion arises in the case of ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder), as well as obsessive/compulsive disorder, which is sometimes more accurately described  as an excessive, fixated flight response to trauma. This is also true of ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder) and some dissociative disorders which are similarly excessive, fixated freeze responses to trauma


This is not to say that those so diagnosed do not have issues that are similar and correlative with said disorders, but that these labels are incomplete and unnecessarily shaming descriptions of what the client is afflicted with. Calling complex PTSD “panic disorder” is like calling food allergies chronically itchy eyes; over-focusing treatment on the symptoms of panic in the former case and eye health in the latter does little to get at root causes. Feelings of panic or itchiness in the eyes can be masked with medication, but all the other associated problems that cause these symptoms will remain untreated. Moreover most of the diagnoses mentioned above imply deep innate characterological defects rather than the learned maladaptations to stress that children of trauma are forced to make– adaptations, once again that were learned and can therefore usually be extinguished and replaced with more functional adaptations to stress.

In this vein, I believe that many substance and process addictions also begin as misguided, maladaptations to parental abuse and abandonment – early adaptations that are attempts to soothe and distract from the mental and emotional pain of complex PTSD.


So to summarize C-PTSD (severe trauma in childhood)  is a blanket term.

I think from Spring Butterflys comments that OOTF see it in a much more narrow definition related to a set of symptoms, such as panic, flashbacks, depression, anxiety  etc. 

I do sincerely hope my comments arent triggering . They werent meant to be, but i think there is misunderstanding of what C-PTSD is.


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LightOrb

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Re: CPTSD - Personality Disorder?
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2018, 02:35:28 PM »
My trauma therapist trained with Bessel van der Kolk, who is one of the experts involved in making PTSD into the DSM, in the Trauma Center. Complex PTSD is NOT a shortname for severe trauma in childhood. Complex PTSD is repeated trauma, often without possibility of escape, which many times happens in childhood, a moment when we are vulnerable and without escape. However it is not exclusive to those situations, and you can get complext PTSD in any other moment, from any other relationship.

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Bloomie

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Re: CPTSD - Personality Disorder?
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2018, 03:28:14 PM »
It is good to have these types of clarifying discussions and I am really proud of the respectful way each one is engaging. Go OOTF community!

It may be helpful to the discussion to read through OOTF's information on C-PTSD from the glossary found here: http://outofthefog.website/toolbox-1/2015/11/17/complex-post-traumatic-stress-disorder-c-ptsd

I noted, as you will also I am sure, that the OOTF article points out that when we are under extreme duress as vulnerable humans we develop maladaptive ways to cope with that stress. Whether a one time traumatic experience or a series of cumulative abuse and trauma over childhood for example.

The question here from Summer Sun is
Quote
is CPTSD considered a PD for this forum
and the short answer is no. There may be co-exisiting of CPTSD and PD, there may be co-existing of CPTSD and psychosis, there may be misdiagnoses by highly trained professionals and much more layering of complexity that only serves to remind us that the mind and soul and what drives us to do what we do are in some ways beyond comprehension, even to the best and brightest.

Most importantly, as we share here we want to keep the language we use respectful of the distinction between CPTSD and PDs as clear as we can in order to do no harm as we support one another through the labyrinth that is being in intimate relationship with a loved on with a suspected or diagnosed PD whose behaviors and choices are harming us and themselves.

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Spring Butterfly

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Re: CPTSD - Personality Disorder?
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2018, 09:59:03 AM »
I think from Spring Butterflys comments that OOTF see it in a much more narrow definition related to a set of symptoms, such as panic, flashbacks, depression, anxiety  etc. 
thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and yes in the context of this forum I think Bloomie sums it up well:

The question here from Summer Sun is
Quote
is CPTSD considered a PD for this forum
and the short answer is no. There may be co-exisiting of CPTSD and PD, there may be co-existing of CPTSD and psychosis, there may be misdiagnoses by highly trained professionals and much more layering of complexity that only serves to remind us that the mind and soul and what drives us to do what we do are in some ways beyond comprehension, even to the best and brightest.

Most importantly, as we share here we want to keep the language we use respectful of the distinction between CPTSD and PDs as clear as we can in order to do no harm as we support one another through the labyrinth that is being in intimate relationship with a loved on with a suspected or diagnosed PD whose behaviors and choices are harming us and themselves.
well said Bloomie!

The question of defining cPTSD isn't at question and we'll behind the scope of this forum. Professionals with years of study and years of first hand helping patients cannot come to a clear definition.

So for the purpose of this particular forum PD and cPTSD might be co-morbid but aren't the same. This is an important point - someone MAY be  diagnosed PD and also cPTSD and symptoms/ traits may even overlap but we would not say cPTSD is a PD. So on the forum we would focus on the behavior associated with the PD aspect of the relationship as the purpose of the forum as defined in the About Us section is "encouraging one another through the many challenges that come with having a family member or significant other who has a personality disorder. "
· Every interaction w/ PD persons results in damage-plan accordingly, make time to heal
· Individuation is one key to emotional freedom
· It's foolish to expect of others what they have no capacity to give
my Empowered Growth blog