[Seven]

Because evidently that has been the issue with my PAIM (passive aggressive invalidating mother) my entire life.

I mentioned this is another thread, but now it’s going on day 4-5 and still nothing. 

My PAIM has decided all of a sudden that she is going to up and move to FL near my two sisters.  Sis#2 is in a home and bought this home with the intention of moving my M in with her (1st floor master, etc etc). Sis#4 owns 2 condos a few miles away (long story behind why they have two, but it’s not what would normally come to mind).  They are renovating one, getting ready to sell it, and then move into the other, which also needs some updating.

Sis#4 was in town a few weeks ago and told PAIM what the plan was, and when sis#4 got back to FL, put condo #1 on the market. 

So Easter weekend comes around.  PAIM had plans for breakfast out with bro#6 and his entire IL family.  I could not host any kind of holiday weekend as we were out of town for work.  We were able to meet up with bro#5 for breakfast buffet on Easter and he proceeds to tell me PAIM newfound plan.  This newfound plan after telling EVERYONE that she will never go back to FL after a 6 week visit last year, over her dead body, etc.  I’m digressing....so bro#5 tells me this is PAIM plan.  Of course we go back and forth “does she really mean it or is this just some whim thing?”  Oh, and PAIM had bro#5 call sis#4 to tell her the plans, and should she rent the condo or buy it from her.  Because God only knows why M cannot make phone calls herself.  So she makes bro#5 a FM i guess.  So i ask him, why is she doing this?  Well, evidently her friend is also moving to FL.  This is the same friend who told PAIM to move into her same apartment complex 3 years ago.

Monday i get a call from sis#4 asking if i heard about PAIM wishes.  I told her i did and the manner in which i got told (I was told from bro#5 that it was a secret....aren’t they always?).  She says that’s its no secret now.  Then today a convo with sis#1 regarding a totally different subject matter.  Come to find out sis#1 (who is in a different state than any of us) knew about it Easter Sunday.   Sis#4 also said she wished PAIM would have said something while she was in town and she never would have put the condo on the market.   So basically PAIM intentions are to either buy or rent condo #1 from sis#4 and not live with sis#2.

I did not have the opportunity to call M on Easter Sunday as we were overwhelmed with getting back from a long work weekend.  On the flip side, M did not try to call us either.  So i called on Tuesday and left a message generalizing sorry I couldn’t get in touch on Easter, long work weekend, etc etc.  I DID NOT bring up the fact that i knew she decided to move.

It is now Thursday.  She has yet to return my phone call from 2 days ago and basically right now, i am the only sibling in the family that she has not told directly that she wishes to move (with the possible exception of bro#3, but if he called her on Easter, then he knows too).  In the meantime, DH and I will have to be the ones to sell her car and her furniture, as evidently she plans on not taking anything with her.  So yep, we’ll be the ones doing a brunt of the work, and have yet to be notified of said plans.

So, again i feel invalidated.  DH says that PAIM will make the excuse that she already told me and use her failing memory as an excuse (so why the hell do i buy her prevagen ???)

This is just the latest in the episodes of her passive-aggressive invalidation.  #7.  Always the last to know....or so she thinks.

So tell me, if she ever decides to tell me, what do i say?  Do i act surprised?  Do I say “yeah, i know, when were you planning on telling me?  You got around to telling everyone else”

I don’t even know what to do when the time comes around.  Laugh it off or tell her I’m totally disappointed?  If i try to make it light, then she will feel validated/enabled that it was ok to not tell me and leave that responsibility to my siblings.

Sorry all of this came out jumbled.  So many things running through my head.  Let me know if i can clarify anything.

 Basically, my mother has decided to move, has told all the siblings except me...the one who is going to be doing all the work on this end, and I feel invalidated again. 

[carrots]

I feel for you not being validated! I'm too tired to really understand your post. I might be in a very different time zone, much later than you...

I get a lot of information and tools here. I get a lot more validation on sister website OutOfTheStorm. That only works if you have the fortune (?? - not really!) to have CPTSD. So here's hoping somebody else on OOTF can give you more concrete validation than I can.

[Thru the Rain]

My M has a long history of always leaving someone out of the loop for important news. She says "Oh I must have told your sister twice" or some similar excuse.

There are 4 siblings in my family, so I can only imagine the chaos a person with a PD could create in your large family!

I've never been able to figure out if she does it on purpose or not. It's maddening! I understand how this would get on your nerves!

[FromTheSwamp]

I would act as if I hadn't heard.  In a normal situation, if someone tells me something that they say they weren't supposed to tell me, I treat it as gossip and don't repeat it.  In a situation with known PDs, I don't want to feed into their dysfunction.  In either case, it's news about your mother that she chose not to tell you.   Seems like a good case for, "Oh, really?  That's interesting," said with an air of vague disinterest, when she gets around to saying something about it. 

Edited to add:  This is super annoying of her, by the way.  It suggests that she's trying to divide you and your siblings. 

[broken]

I think the term triangulation is what this is...  Only 3 people are required for it, but the more the merrier...

I am always the 'last to know'.  Sometimes I think she truly forgot to tell me because
1. I am so insignificant that I am invisible, when she needs me to be of service she will tell me
2. As an extension of her perfect image of herself, I should magically know this stuff

Maybe she intentionally doesn't tell me things.  Two possible reasons:
1. To 'cut me down to size', a favorite pastime of NM
2. To gaslight me...  "Of course I told you!"

Hopefully you can retain a meaningful relationship with some of your siblings.  I can only dream that my NM would move a long distance away 

[Gromit]

Hi Seven,

I think From the Swamp has excellent advice, act like you know nothing.

As for having the job of helping her, if she wanted to you to do that she should have involved you in the decision from the start. If I want someone to help me with something I ask them first, before committing to the something. So, try not to worry, this might not happen, although sounds like it would be good if she moved.

G

[Seven]

Hi Seven,

I think From the Swamp has excellent advice, act like you know nothing.

As for having the job of helping her, if she wanted to you to do that she should have involved you in the decision from the start. If I want someone to help me with something I ask them first, before committing to the something. So, try not to worry, this might not happen, although sounds like it would be good if she moved.

G

She did this the last time she’s moved from house to apartment.  She announced it, announced the date she planned on moving, ordered bro#6 to sell her house.  At the time there were three of us in the immediate vicinity and bro#6 1.5 hours away.  And this is how that went down....

-Sis#4, her DH and their adult son/wife (hence two condos) were moving to FL at the same exact time M wants to move houses, so she was unable to help.  Sis’s move was planned first, long before M made the decision.  We were also asked to help with their moving sale, which is fine...it’s what we do.
-Bro#5 was going through a divorce so he was unable to help.  He had to clear out and sell his own house all on his own (divorcing a BPD).
-Bro#6 lives 1.5 hours away and the only time he came to help her downsize was for her moving sale a week before her scheduled move date.  DH did not help with this moving sale because of his BPDm.  DH and his BPD mother are now estranged.
Sis#2 and bro#3 already lived multiple states away and had been for many decades so there was no help there.

So that left me, and sis#1,who would literally drive 5-6 hours (longer with traffic) one way every 2-3weeks to help her downsize.  Trust me, sis#1has still not recovered from M behavior during that time, and that was 3 years ago.  A lifetime worth of things in a 3000sq ft house  into a first floor 3br apartment.  Luckily she wasn’t really a hoarder, she just had a lot of space to store things.  Total clean freak. Everything in it’s place. 

That move was very stressful for everyone due to her behavior and the timing and the fact that it was her way the whole time, hence why sis#1 doesn’t want to go through this again. She wanted her in an ALF/retirement community from the get-go.

My siblings and I are all on the same page when it comes to M.  We know how she is.  And we really don’t keep secrets from each other when it comes to her. 

If I am expected to help again it will be done our way on our schedule.  Even after the last move she said “I should’ve done it your way”  our way being...move into your apartment when it became available, take what you want/what will fit, and THEN sell the house.  There was no rush to sell the house as it was already paid for, is always immaculate, and will sell within a week anyway regardless of time of year.   That way no one was stressed over her move, sisters move, brothers divorce.  There was absolutely no rush.  But nope. She made her plans, set her date, stressed everyone out, and then says “oh, should have done it your  way” 

She’s already talking August for this move, but guess what...I have a work convention already scheduled for late July/first week of August.  But again, technically I don’t even know she’s moving. 

[daughter]

What's your designated "role" in FOO Family?  Is it "ignored unless needed?", low on pecking-order?  Are siblings sometimes pitted against each other in a subtle game of "how's most helpful/loved of my children" by your mom?  Does she normally control flow of FOO Family information, withhold and manipulate information about herself?

My NBM often withheld significant information concerning my parents' major decisions, their departures on long long-distance trips, on major events in nsis' life,  not disclosing until days beforehand, or never at all, to respond, when questioned by me ("why didn't you say anything?") with blandishments like "oh, I told you; you never listen", or "oh, didn't I tell you? oh well, now you know", etc.  I think she was telegraphing to me her relative lack of regard towards me, because my value in my FOO Family dynamic was "be useful; be reliable, but don't expect anything from US".

When your mother finally deems to tell you about her plans, if those plans even remain on-track, I'd respond with a bland "yes, I know", without further discussion or comment initiated by you.  I'd also not volunteer to "help move mom", or commit to "sell her furniture", no matter how much pressure is exerted for you to do this again.  Just opt out.  Let the other siblings handle this move for mom.

At a certain point in our lives, our parents' notion that their "jump when I say jump!" expectations that we obediently fulfill their every wish, expectation, and command is both illogical, and necessary to contradict with a firm "no, not possible".

[Seven]

Daughter,

She *tries* to control the flow of info.  I am the “ignored unless needed”.  She does withhold and manipulate info about herself.  And as much as she would like to try, she cannot pit us against each other.  All seven of us know the way she is and we communicate in a way so that stories can be told straight, and M comes out the liar. 

Sis#4 in FL just called me.  We had a good conversation.  PAIM now knows that I know she is planning to move.  And that is a committed move.  Sis#4 had to get a commitment from her.  After all it is sis’s place she’d be moving into, whether buying or renting it.   Sis#1 told her i said okay to watching her dog while she went to visit for a week at the end of this month.  I did have a time frame that they have to keep to because I had other commitments.  So now M does not feel the need to tell me herself.

I also told sis#4 of my work commitment in July/August and that if M plans on moving 8/1 its not going to happen.  She did say to me that they will need our help on this end, which is fine, but i told her it had to be on my terms.  None of this crap that happened last time M moved without consulting anybody or taking into consideration anyone else’s schedule.  I reminded sis#4 how stressful it was for everyone involved working around M instead of M working around us.  She is in total agreement with me.  So as siblings we are all on the same page when it comes to M. 

What none of us know is why the big 180.  She was NEVER moving to FL.  She hated it there.  How was she going to get around? Seven and Five will take care of me (of course without ever discussing it with us first), etc, etc.  Other than her friends moving out of the complex (and this is a nice complex, dont get me wrong), the only thing Four could think of was that maybe she is sick and is not telling anyone.  There is a high probablity of that.  M does not discuss her health with anyone (ha!!  And i am the medical proxy)  Evidently I had a great-aunt that did that, but i was too young to remember the exact circumstances of why she moved in with us. Speculation is great-aunt knew she was getting sick, but didn’t tell anyone, and just decided moving in with the parents was a good idea.  Ended up she had cancer.

[biggerfish]

How's this for validation: you sound like the only sane one! 

There's a lot of indirect communication going on in your family which is not emotionaly healthy.

I want to remind you of something you already know: you can't influence her behavior. It's too much work for anybody, and it won't work anyhow. And so this statement "If i try to make it light, then she will feel validated/enabled that it was ok to not tell me and leave that responsibility to my siblings" is you taking on way too much. Instead, just decide what's good for YOU, and that's probably to know as soon as possible whether she really is moving or not. Keep it simple. Also, I'd say place limits on how much work you'll do for her.

My suggestion is just tell her you've heard she's moving and you need to know some details so you can decide WHETHER and HOW MUCH you will help. Keep your options open. If she digresses to "that was a secret...who told you...ya da ya da ya da," or any other off-topic spiel, then go silent until she answers your question. She sounds very manipulative and she makes you work very hard just to put safe sentences together, and as you know, it will never end. You may as well make your life easy, and let her spin out of control occasionally in response to something you do or say, while you go silent, and then bring her back to the topic at hand.

I don't know if you're already doing this, but if not, you probably should start practicing gray rock. And avoid the drama whenever possible.