Clash of the boundaries

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practical

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2018, 03:20:22 PM »
In talking with brother who does still talk to mother, he actually asked: why not just unblock the phone and stop her argument? She's an old woman and this is just giving her another fight. His point is, everything is just another fight for her. If I shut it down she moves on to the next one.
Bad idea! She'll make your life miserable using her access and still pick fights over whatever. This way at least it is limited how much toxicity she can pour into your life. And being an old woman is neither an excuse nor does it give you a card blanche for being mean, disrespectful, unkind and selfish.
If Im not towards myself, who is towards myself? And when Im only towards myself, what am I? And if not now, when? (Rabbi Hillel)

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moglow

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2018, 04:38:58 PM »
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being an old woman is neither an excuse nor does it give you a card blanche for being mean, disrespectful, unkind and selfish.
And yet we're told it IS, over and over. Thank you, P.  I'm floundering today and my center is tilted. Resetting the gyroscope is a process.

Talked to sis this morning - she's my champion, has been for years, and has witnessed so many episodes  up close and personal. She reminded me that I've played a huge part in this for years, by excusing the inexcusable so many times.

Basically: mother blows sky high and decimates everyone around her, then *she* "feels better" and we're all supposed to accept her next personality and move on. She can and will fling mistakes of the past in your face with glee, but God help you if you point out the inconsistencies in her. Do as I say not as I do is one of her many and oft-repeated self-serving mottos, always delivered with a laugh and an underlying dare to contradict. But we let it go and give her a pass, simply to stop the pain.

There's gonna be a collective sigh of relief one day in the not too distant future, and that's just awful. We're not even going to be able to pretend grief because she's destroyed pretty much all the decency we have left.  At this point I have no doubt that like a member here shared about her mother's passing, she'll leave this world with her middle finger firmly in the air.

Right now I need to sink into Silent Treat. Love Silent Treat. BE Silent Treat. Well that and maybe whisky ...

Thx for hanging in for this ramble. It helps getting it out.
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Starboard Song

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2018, 04:50:15 PM »
Silent Treat and Whiskey

This forum is full of great band names.


Mo,

Age is not an excuse. Illness is not an excuse. Pain is not an excuse. Even Mrs. Dubose needed to calm down at some point -- just calm down and listen -- or Atticus wouldn't have sent Jem to read. If your mother cannot calm down and listen while she waits for even the last alarm clock, it is no fault of yours.

Be strong! Be good! You can do both!
Radical Acceptance, by Brach   |   Self-Compassion, by Neff    |   Mindfulness, by Williams   |   The Book of Joy, by the Dalai Lama and Tutu
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practical

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2018, 05:16:56 PM »
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being an old woman is neither an excuse nor does it give you a card blanche for being mean, disrespectful, unkind and selfish.
And yet we're told it IS, over and over. Thank you, P.  I'm floundering today and my center is tilted. Resetting the gyroscope is a process.
I know  :sadno: :roll: , but really: does old age make you forget how to be a normal human being? With dementia people forget things, facts or how to do things, and in some cases people become aggressive, paranoid, but in general I have never heard that dementia makes you forget how to be human, so why would it be okay for an old person to be mean? I don't think your M ever knew how to behave in the first place sadly enough, just like my F never really developed social skills.

Resetting that gyroscope and getting the wobble out takes time, you'll get there, just be patient with yourself. You didn't do anything wrong and still aren't by staying in Silent Treat and you absolutely didn't deserve to be kicked this way.
 :bighug:
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 06:02:26 PM by moglow »
If Im not towards myself, who is towards myself? And when Im only towards myself, what am I? And if not now, when? (Rabbi Hillel)

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moglow

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2018, 06:01:48 PM »
SS Wisdom - I really like the way you put things.

Jen can go read to her all he wants. Scout needs to go hide in a tree house for a while, know what I mean?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 06:03:23 PM by moglow »
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moglow

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2018, 06:14:13 PM »
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I don't think your M ever knew how to behave in the first place sadly enough, just like my F never really developed social skills.

Yep. Not a damn thing to do with age other than being deeply and terminally childish from the day she took her first breath. She *knows* right from wrong and how to treat people -somebody taught US, after all- she just chooses to not do it herself.

Kinda tired of hearing folks out there say "but she's old and alone and in pain.." Child, please. She was like this from day one. It's not changed.
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all4peace

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2018, 06:23:12 PM »
Oh my goodness, no excuses. uNBPDmil used that one--sooooo much painnnnnn.... She said it straight faced to me, who's had bouts of excruciating pain and surgeries, and to DH who had chronic debilitating pain until his surgeries. Yeah, no excuses.

I hope you find some time for calming breaths and self care. This incessant dripping can really get to a person. :hug:

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carrots

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2018, 08:27:37 PM »
Basically: mother blows sky high and decimates everyone around her, then *she* "feels better" and we're all supposed to accept her next personality and move on. She can and will fling mistakes of the past in your face with glee, but God help you if you point out the inconsistencies in her. Do as I say not as I do is one of her many and oft-repeated self-serving mottos, always delivered with a laugh and an underlying dare to contradict.

Sounds familiar, in my case partially M, partially a sib, which is bad enough. You have it all in one person  :aaauuugh: Poor you.
This whole thread has been helpful for me to see patterns in my FOO.

"she's old and alone and in pain".... No wonder with that behavior!

Sorry I don't have any suggestions but others have and I really hope that helps you.

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moglow

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2018, 09:53:48 PM »
Thx, Carrots! Good to know it's helping more than just me. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but it's good to not be alone in it. Halve the misery by sharing it, ya know?

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"she's old and alone and in pain".... No wonder with that behavior!
IKR?!  Oh wait, NO!! *I'm* the horrible awful for thinking such a thing, doncha know? She's perfect in every way and the innocent victim. No? Did you ask her? You do realize hers is the only opinion that matters? No??? Sacrilege!

Sorry, sarcastic Mo kicked in, and about time too. But I'm being good now - just delivered an ice cold beer to a niece in need. God love her, her mother is so much like mine it's truly not funny. She needs the love and I'm happy to provide.
Y'all keep sharing the good stuff - clearly you have it to give. Peace!!  :wave:
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Starboard Song

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2018, 11:14:09 PM »
Scout needs to go hide in a tree house for a while, know what I mean?

Treehouse. Scotch. Some assembly required.
Radical Acceptance, by Brach   |   Self-Compassion, by Neff    |   Mindfulness, by Williams   |   The Book of Joy, by the Dalai Lama and Tutu
Healing From Family Rifts, by Sichel   |  Stop Walking on Egshells, by Mason    |    Emotional Blackmail, by Susan Forward

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moglow

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2018, 11:53:33 PM »
Or disassembly, as the case may be. Pretty sure hammering in some 10-penny nails would help.  :bigwink:
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scribblesandsuch

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2018, 10:44:40 AM »
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I would inform her that she is welcome to call using her landline, but you are unable to accept calls from her mobile phone, because she insists on texting you inappropriately. Full stop.

You could, as a backup, block her mobile each evening at bed time, and unblock her every day after work. I can block or unblock a number in 5 seconds. She will stay out of your workday, and only be able to call (or text) you at reasonable hours.

I would agree with either of these two tactics.

Moglow, her phone being blocked isn't really a "legitimate gripe." If she acted this way in person showing up all the time and making a fuss, security would remove her from the building. What you're doing is akin to not answering the door when no one is available.

You're not available. She knows that. She wants to push it and force you to contact her on her terms and only her terms. That's not the same as wanting contact. It's wanting subservience. It's wanting you to do exactly as she says when she says it and to prove it to her.

She has another means of reaching you which SHE put down.

My mother used to pull this tactic a lot, using fake emergencies to get me to call back. I eventually started blocking her phone during work hours and just said it was off during those times. I only responded to her after hours. I met with my boss and explained that if she were to call the building it was not something to pull me out of meeting for, she was unwell and unreliable in her interpretation of events, and I would follow up with her after.

Did my mother try to make herself look like the victim? I'm sure she did, but by then I'd already cut Facebook ties and started hanging up and blocking her when she tried to get nasty with me. Eventually, she learned that she could not reach me at work.

It's really important to see the difference between her asking for something and her demanding it on her own specific terms just because she needs to be in control.

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moglow

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2018, 12:34:48 PM »
M@!#%&!@%!!! Would y'all believe she's calling AGAIN? After I just reminded her of my work hours, so she knows I'm at work. AND after that nasty stomp and schnort that ended with her hanging up on me, after having told me to not bother calling her again.

And do you know why?  Because I didn't do the customary and expected plead and grovel, begging her to talk to me so she could spew more venom.
God love her. That's one more disturbed individual, doesn't have a clue and ain't buyin' one.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 12:59:53 PM by moglow »
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Bloomie

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2018, 12:58:11 PM »
Moglow - just catching up with you here... you said it right from the jump... chaos manufacture. If it were not the phone it would be something else. Like a little bitty bird cheeping with it's mouth open... feed me, pay attention to me....

My phone has a do not disturb feature. Really easy to enable/disable for an individual so that you are not disturbed by them for whatever period of your day/week/month/life you should so choose. Always an option. :ninja:

But, we know that the phone is not really the problem. It is the vast chasm of need that is the problem. And you absolutely refusing to do what you cannot  - fill that up for her. No one can.

You know that if it were me, or anyone of the rest of us describing this treatment of us you would recognize it as harassment and abuse and want to see us advocate for ourselves. Because this is not just someone acting up because they are old and their social cuing and manners have slipped, because with that it happens most often across relationships and human interactions... this is targeted, disruptive, out of line, unacceptable treatment of you and a complete disregard for your stated boundaries. And I am really sorry this is happening to you!

Hold strong to your position in this and to your boundaries and let her stew in her own juices. She knows... she absolutely knows what she is doing and seems to be pushing to see how far you will let her go.

It is ethical to not take countless personal calls - from anyone, while working. It is something you have chosen for your workplace conduct. Don't lose sight of that very fine and worthy standard you have set for yourself. ❤️

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practical

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2018, 01:41:49 PM »
Well, she is in for the long haul, seems like she is taking as a challenge and you are now under siege  :P  :stars: :fallingbricks: . I would stock up on chocolate :cake:, whipped cream :cake:, bubble bath and whatever it takes to make you a nice drink/tea/hot cocoa and try to teleport  :abduct: myself to  :cloud9: . I don't think you can hear her there. :hug:
If Im not towards myself, who is towards myself? And when Im only towards myself, what am I? And if not now, when? (Rabbi Hillel)

"I can forgive, but I cannot afford to forget." (Moglow)

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Starboard Song

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2018, 01:52:05 PM »
Would y'all believe she's calling AGAIN?

I would. I would believe.

So, the key question: how many calls came before you blocked her?
Radical Acceptance, by Brach   |   Self-Compassion, by Neff    |   Mindfulness, by Williams   |   The Book of Joy, by the Dalai Lama and Tutu
Healing From Family Rifts, by Sichel   |  Stop Walking on Egshells, by Mason    |    Emotional Blackmail, by Susan Forward

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moglow

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2018, 02:15:00 PM »
Do not disturb (by way of all calls going straight to voicemail) has been in place for some time - I get an indicator if she calls and vm indicator if she leaves a message. She didn't leave a msg, guessing she'll try back thinking I'll answer eventually. If not, okay by me.
"Expectations are disappointments under construction.  ~ Cap'n Spanky

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openskyblue

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2018, 04:17:43 PM »
My vote is:

Keep her number blocked
Call her on her landline when you feel you like it.
If she doesnt answer, leave a chatty message.
Have a scotch in your treehouse

Seriously, lifes too shortand you are a busy woman trying to live a happy one. At this point in life, regardless of the relationship (mother, adult child, sibling), one of the most responsible things we can do as adults is stay in our own lane. If she cant do that, thats her problem, not really yours.


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Bloomie

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2018, 07:46:57 PM »
Do not disturb (by way of all calls going straight to voicemail) has been in place for some time - I get an indicator if she calls and vm indicator if she leaves a message. She didn't leave a msg, guessing she'll try back thinking I'll answer eventually. If not, okay by me.

You have got this! :hug:

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moglow

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2018, 10:02:55 PM »
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So, the key question: how many calls came before you blocked her?
Her cell phone remains blocked. I've not blocked her home phone, but all her calls go straight to voicemail. I suspect her next move is to disconnect it thinking to force my hand. It's her phone and she may do as she wishes.

She told me to not bother calling again, and she has a point. I'm not sure why I've bothered all this time, considering the abuse she's dished whenever I called. Sometimes we have to be careful what we ask for - one of us knows how to respect boundaries when they're laid out so clearly.  :bigwink:
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 10:15:37 PM by moglow »
"Expectations are disappointments under construction.  ~ Cap'n Spanky

Stop Stinkin' Thinkin'!