Clash of the boundaries

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WomanInterrupted

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2018, 01:45:26 AM »
You're right - she can do whatever she wants with her land line, but it doesn't mean you're going to call her cell.

Besides - she handed you the, "Get out of Hell, Free" card by *telling you not to call.*   :evil2:

Take her at face value!   :ninja:

That's how I handle *all* passive-aggressive statements that are designed to "motivate" me through FOG.   8-)

I'd keep her phones blocked and going straight to VM from now until Kingdom Come.  You deserve FAR better treatment and she doesn't live on an ice floe - she's got a phone that dials other numbers than yours, and it can handle all her needs.

She'll have to find herself another emotional toilet.  The last time I looked, it said, "Administrator" and "Hero Member'  under your name and *not* Kohler.   :bigwink:

If you choose not to contact her again - ever - she'll be just fine.  People like your mom always are.  You're just the easiest person on the list to give her a supply.  Once you turn off the access, she'll just move on to the next easiest person, and the one after that, and the one after that.  If she runs out of people, she'll find more to believe her poor, sick, frail little old lady, with rotten kids who hate her for
NO reason she can figure out schtick.   :violin:

As PT Barnum said, there's one born every minute.

And it doesn't have to be YOU.   :yes:

 :hug:

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moglow

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2018, 02:08:16 AM »
Thx, WI! A little something snapped inside yesterday, albeit a long overdue snap. I've been here before - and not. I've always doubted whether or not to call her back, all the many times she's popped off then hung up on me. That doubt always lost, said quietly "let her calm down a bit and call her back. Reassure her. She doesn't really mean it." Some days it was call after call, with her literally laughing at me because I called back then she'd hang up again.

But it finally dawned: All these past weeks with the complaints and demands about unblocking that cell phone, not once has she called just to call. I've deflected with something totally unrelated and she talked over me or ignored and back to the phone she went. She's not shared anything or asked anything, its just been a barrage about that damn phone. It's a fight, nothing more, and I'm just tired of it. She can go fight with someone else.

You might want to tell her: Sometimes you have to be careful what you ask for. Someone might deliver.
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WomanInterrupted

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2018, 04:54:27 AM »
I think a part of the problem is you don't think she means it when she pops off and hangs up - SHE DOES.

When she tells you how she really feels - *that's how she really feels!*

UnBPD Didi had a volcanic anger inside her toward everyone and everything on earth - including *me.*

There was nothing I could do about it.  Nothing I could say.  No amount of tatty crap I could buy her, no card, no selfless act of fealty I could perform - hell, if that woman needed a transplant of ALL her organs, just to live another few miserable months, and I didn't offer to cough mine up (despite being adopted and NOT having the same blood type AND the fact *I'd be dead*) - she'd have been LIVID, screaming, fuming, waifing, "crying" and trying to get a some kind of court order *because she thought I owed her an intangible SOMETHING that would somehow make her life complete, and she didn't know what it was, so I'd BETTER find it, or I'd FAIL her, just like every other person in her life and be no better than them.*

In that totally implausible situation, let's say we were a match and I was stupid enough to give Didi ALL my organs - heart, brain, stomach, liver, pancreas, kidneys - you get it.  The vital stuff.

She'd bitch that she was in PAIN and *I wasn't there to comfort her.*  And THEN she'd bitch about how INCONSIDERATE I was in needing a FUNERAL when she's *recovering from major surgery!*

And she'd be *incandescent* that people were crying over me, when SHE had such SO MUCH PAIN - and dammit, WI, GET UP!  Stop faking!  I am your mother and I NEED YOU, so cut it out!

Six months after my funeral, she'd be griping about what a drama queen I was at my wake, taking attention away from her MAJOR SURGERY.  And I was just AWFUL at the burial!

And she'd bang on about it *to the end of her days* - complaining that my organs were inferior, I should have eaten less fat, exercised more, had more fiber in my diet...

THIS is what you're dealing with.  A black hole of need.  It can never be filled for more than a few minutes before it decides to hit the reset button to get you to TRY AGAIN.

"Listening" to her - what exactly ARE you listening to?

Everything she FEELS - not facts.  But that's HER.  That is who she really is. 

That is HER.  The essence of who she is.  She can't think beyond her own needs - and doesn't want to.  She just gets *angry* instead and wants *total control.*

DO NOT GIVE IN.

Yes, she has a disorder, but the disorder *is the essence of her entire being* and you either play the game by her rules - meaning there ARE no rules except to abuse Moglow, whenever she has a "need" to - or you establish your own BOUNDARIES and make them stick, no matter what kind of convoluted rubbish she comes up with.

I decreased Didi's access to me and she went ape-shit.   That's when all the hospitalizations started for her Makeitupitis and I *stayed away.*

It was a battle of wills, but more than that, a battle of Who Owns My Life?

I do  - just as yours is your own.

It is my own, to do with however I please, and if I chose to NOT chase after a black-hole of need, who was angry all the time - even if she called herself my mother - that's OKAY.

She was never going to snap out of it, go to T, get help or do anything but take antidepressants that didn't work and complain about it, while doing nothing but expecting ME to figure it out for her.

I did - but not in the way she wanted.  I got help.  I got out.  I left her alone.  I dropped the ball and stopped playing her games. 

They WERE games - right up until the end. 

Sick, sadistic games - and we don't know the rules.  We'll never know the rules.   They change from moment to moment, just like the intangible, unknowable SOMETHING your mom needs, right now, to make her life complete for the next five minutes.

Your mom is showing you who she really is - believe her.

 :hug:

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moglow

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2018, 04:07:41 PM »
Today's session of "as her stomach turns":
Message from her about an hour ago points out that she called the office to check on me several weeks ago, because she didn't get my earlier msg and had no other way to reach me. Odd. The first thing she said on HER message at the office was thank me for mine. Then she kept calling the office and I had to ask her to not call me there - and that's where this meltdown started. Oh, and all those calls were from her home phone.

Honestly I don't know how the woman sleeps at night, unless she's just exhausted by ruminating and replaying old messages over and over, looking for a contradiction or something she can pick apart.

I'm pet sitting a sweet maltipoo until tomorrow - and we have a pool. Imma go park my butt in it and bake my brain a while. Thank y'all so much for giving me this outlet and all the feedback. I'm soaking in the good stuff y'all provide, it helps me shove the bad out.

Peace! 💋
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moglow

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #44 on: June 09, 2018, 08:36:41 PM »
OMG -All her folderol about the cell phone block prompted me to check my account and verify it's still in place.  It WASN"T.  I don't know when or why it dropped, but looks like Verizon switched systems from FamilyBase to Smart Family at some point and the blocks previously in place went away.  She's been raising hell all this time over something that didn't even exist - clearly she didn't even try or she'd have gotten through!!  AND by riding that train all this time it prompted me to double check and get it back where I wanted it.  I feel SO much better now, mother finally did a good deed!!! :D

ETA:  All those times she's whined and bitched about that phone being blocked this past several months, claimed she'd tried to reach me but couldn't, the sarcastic message and weeks of these meltdowns ... over NOTHING.  I told her she'd been blocked, yes, because I had blocked her. I had no idea it had changed because I hadn't checked. It's been unblocked for almost a year, not one peep from her. Lies, all lies.

 
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 10:24:48 PM by moglow »
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practical

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2018, 10:48:57 AM »
If it wasn't s sad, it would be funny, as it is so absurd. What a great way to bring into focus what it was and is all about, her picking a fight to get rid of negative energy and you seem to be a handy punching bag.

Hope you got to chill in the pool.  :)
“If I’m not towards myself, who is towards myself? And when I’m only towards myself, what am I? And if not now, when?” (Rabbi Hillel)

"I can forgive, but I cannot afford to forget." (Moglow)

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moglow

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #46 on: June 10, 2018, 11:05:02 AM »
Update: I sat by the pool last night, listening to frogs croak and night insects chitter, just thinking. This cycle has played out so many times now it's just not funny. She stomps and schnorts and gripes and whittles away at some random "wrongdoing" (I.e. something she can pick at) until it's raw and bleeding. I insist on facing it head on, talking it out, shining a light on all the many dark spots and show her (again) she's mad about nothing. It either doesn't exist at all or it's something from the ancient past that she's clung to and dredged up trying to find a legitimate gripe. Then, once she's called on the idiocy of it all, she becomes the poor waif who has a whole other reason she's really upset - and that "reason" has nothing to do with me at all.

It's all about attention. There's no problem to be solved, no relationship to be worked on, no wrong to make right. It's just air fillers and pipe dreams. Reasonable me sees this. Getting caught up in trying to shut down her drama, I lose sight of the realities and any semblance of reasonable.

My reality? I've never been a person, an individual to her. I'm an extension of her, one who must think and feel as she does. When I don't, all hell breaks loose - not because she cares or because it affects her in some way, but because I'm daring to contradict her. You're either with her or against her. Black or white. Either /or. No middle ground, no gray areas, no wiggle room. She has no tolerance for difference of opinion or perspective. So she alters her reality and self as the situation requires, to keep the drama going and attention on her. She takes potshots at kindness and compassion, shoves everybody away then whines that no one comes around.

I don't like her and that's a fact. I don't like the fake persona she projects and I have no basis for a real relationship with her. I've been forcefed so much bs for so many years that I can't tell fact from fiction, I just know I can't trust her. I've been bullied into submission where she pounds away at an issue until I say anything to get her to shut the fuck up about it. Like a poisonous snake, she will turn on me and usually when I least expect it. The strike comes out of nowhere, and again, has no basis in reality other than that's who she really is.

I need to practice silence with her going forward - verbal AND mental silence. Nothing is going to change and frankly even if it were I'm no longer willing to try. I've been deeply unhappy and have withdrawn more and more the past several weeks, just needing distance and time from everyone to heal from it all. I've shut people out because I can't handle it and didn't want to voice the truth: I don't like her and want nothing to do with her. I don't want to hear excuses or justifications, I just want her to go away and stay away. She can't do that so I have to.
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moglow

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2018, 11:11:51 AM »
Practical, it was funny at first, the insanity of it all. She'd kept pounding away at something that literally didn't exist until my antennae went up and I realized I needed to check on it. I was stunned when I realized that block had been gone so long - no telling how many times mother's brought it up, and the past few months she's been relentless with it. Every conversation was brought back to it and how inconvenient it was for her to carry two phones, with her using a cane now for support. All logic went over her head while she ranted and pounded away at it.

She even claimed she tried to call and got messages she was blocked. Pure prime bullshit. Not only was she not blocked, they don't send that message. She hadn't  tried at all! She lies to gain sympathy, and when called on it she turns into a waif. All over something that didn't exist. Same old same old.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 11:15:28 AM by moglow »
"Expectations are disappointments under construction.”  ~ Cap'n Spanky

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Iguanagos

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2018, 11:51:54 AM »
moglow, been following your thread with interest as I can relate to so much of it. Just as you caught your M lying about the phone, I too have caught mine in numerous lies and gaslighting over the years. I never directly called her on it, because I know that would not go well and would be pointless too. She would embark on an immediate and long-lasting rage and seek vengeance in some deeply hurtful way.

I finally started keeping a written record though, because my memory isn't that great, and it really helps me to go back and see where she's out and out lied in order to further her own agenda and manipulate me.  So sorry that you have gone through this for so very long.

Yes, they want attention, but they don't know how to go about this and relate to people in the normal way, by actually being interested in other people and participating in a true give-and-take of ideas and caring. They only see themselves and their own needs, and I have felt that with mine, my only job is to be a mirror and reflect back to her what she thinks and feels. She doesn't handle any discrepancy or independent thought of mine very well.

I hope you are able to reduce contact with her even more now and just continue to extend the time and space between you. She's a bottomless pit of need and will never be satisfied, and will merely suck you dry until there's nothing left of you. You deserve a happy and full and rich life filled with people (and creatures like that Maltipoo!) that bring you joy.


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openskyblue

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2018, 12:01:37 PM »
My reality? I've never been a person, an individual to her. I'm an extension of her, one who must think and feel as she does. When I don't, all hell breaks loose - not because she cares or because it affects her in some way, but because I'm daring to contradict her.

With my sociopathic ex husband, this realization was the big aha moment for me. To him, I was just an extension of himself. Anytime I did really just about anything that he did not do, think, believe in,, want it was like his right arm had just started swatting him in the nose. His reactions to me being different from him ranged from him being perplexed to all out rage. How could his right arm do this?! To this day, when I am looking for a parking space in a lot, I can hear him flipping out because I just drove past the one he would have taken. It was like i'd passed by the only free parking space in the world, just to spite him. (Of course, there was another one, right down the way.)

I know it's different, the PD spouse vs parent dynamic, but I think it does boil down to the same question. How long do you want to keep knocking on the door in the  hope the other person will open it, finally see you?  This is such a hard thing, that hope, to give up on. Yet, at least of me, it was the last straw that led to healing.

I really do hope you get some peace from all this soon, whatever you decide. You should not have to have the energy and joy drained out of your life by anyone.

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practical

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #50 on: June 11, 2018, 09:27:14 AM »
My reality? I've never been a person, an individual to her. I'm an extension of her, one who must think and feel as she does. When I don't, all hell breaks loose - not because she cares or because it affects her in some way, but because I'm daring to contradict her. You're either with her or against her. Black or white. Either /or. No middle ground, no gray areas, no wiggle room.
Thank you! This really helps me as I'm sorting out my relationship with F - again -. For so long I was exactly that for F by being his dutiful daughter, by doing everything to please him, to make him happy, to fix his life. To outsiders I would have seemed the GC, except I was the parentified child, the mascot, the fixer. And, that also explains many of the good moments, because those relate to things he likes, so again they were an extension of him. Now, that I'm no longer the dutiful daughter, things have changed and this helps me understand why, I'm no longer an extension of him.

The strike comes out of nowhere, and again, has no basis in reality other than that's who she really is.
While F's strikes don't necessarily come out of nowhere as he has longstanding negative narratives that get repeated over and over, spun out further like some horror seaman's yarn and just like seaman yarns they have no basis in reality other than like you say who he really is. That is a part I'm struggling with, I cannot quite wrap my head around it, how could anybody be this way? I can accept that I don't have a real father and never had, that he doesn't love me for real, but my mind is unable to comprehend the utter darkness that is him.

You should not have to have the energy and joy drained out of your life by anyone.
I needed to hear this, despite knowing it. And Moglow, yes, neither of us deserves to be exhausted by somebody else's drama, to feel beaten up. Time to plan a vacation from crazy, from pain, from being ground down by somebody else's problems that they take out on us. If they would physically hit us instead of with words and actions, we would be gone, so why are we still here? Just because the boxing match is an emotional one doesn't make it any less harmful, hurtful and long-term damaging. I think I need to reread and meditate on this again http://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=13369.0

I need to practice silence with her going forward - verbal AND mental silence. Nothing is going to change and frankly even if it were I'm no longer willing to try. I've been deeply unhappy and have withdrawn more and more the past several weeks, just needing distance and time from everyone to heal from it all. I've shut people out because I can't handle it and didn't want to voice the truth: I don't like her and want nothing to do with her. I don't want to hear excuses or justifications, I just want her to go away and stay away. She can't do that so I have to.
It is the mental silence I find so difficult, to not argue with him in my head, to not replay all the many episodes from the past trying to understand when there is nothing to understand or I know the answer: it is about him and his need for drama and self-victimization. Like you, I feel myself withdrawing into myself, and it reminded me of "depression is anger turned inwards" and while I'm not depressed I do wish I could express the anger and come out of my shell.

Wishing you all the best for your healing :hug:
“If I’m not towards myself, who is towards myself? And when I’m only towards myself, what am I? And if not now, when?” (Rabbi Hillel)

"I can forgive, but I cannot afford to forget." (Moglow)

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moglow

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #51 on: June 11, 2018, 02:30:28 PM »
 :blink: Kids, there is a Santa Claus. My voicemail is now full of messages in varying levels of snarl, insults, demands and complaint. (I stopped deleting hers some time back just so I'd have a reference point for the next round.) There are TWO friendly upbeat messages, from right after her birthday. Most of the rest have been in the past couple of months since - including today's - about me not being cooperative and not addressing the cell phone issue. Just because it's not to her liking doesn't mean it's not been addressed, but I get it. She isn't getting her way so she must pound away at it.

Not sure how she imagines all the snarl is conducive to building the imaginary relationship she has in her mind. She said in her message today that she called at the time she did, knowing I wouldn't answer since I obviously didn't want to talk to or hear from her anyway.  :dramaqueen:

Added note: Vm box being full means she can't leave anymore. I'm not deleting any messages, any time soon. :ninja:
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 10:19:51 PM by moglow »
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Bloomie

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #52 on: June 11, 2018, 10:25:41 PM »
Quote
Vm box being full means she can't leave anymore. I'm not deleting any messages, any time soon. :ninja:

Yee Haw!!! And the sun is peeking over the horizon.... :hug:

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moglow

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #53 on: June 12, 2018, 12:17:20 AM »
And to think, just yesterday I was researching how to save all those voicemails somewhere so I could delete them from my phone. Nnnnnnnnnope!!
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xredshoesx

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #54 on: June 12, 2018, 09:58:51 PM »
this can also be filed under the 'you can't make this shit up' heading..... :yeahthat:

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sandpiper

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Re: Clash of the boundaries
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2018, 08:10:30 AM »
Oh good lord what a performance.
Hugs to you, Mo.
And thanks for reminding me why I'm NC with my FOO.
All this.  :doh:
I hope you get some peace from it, very soon. I wish I knew how to shut this down, but having had zero success with that with my disordered FOO, I wouldn't know where to begin to advise you.
Thinking of you.
xxx