Ive got ammo what to do with it?

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Writingthepain

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Ive got ammo what to do with it?
« on: July 28, 2018, 05:52:58 PM »
I've got secretly recorded audio of a npd having appalling screaming and shouting tantrums. Up to now whenever someone has tried to confront them on their behaviour they have always lied/ gas lighted their way out of it. But now I've got real proof but what should I do with it? Suggestions please

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all4peace

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Re: Ive got ammo what to do with it?
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2018, 07:13:00 PM »
I hope you'll get more input, but I can't see this going anywhere good. Actual proof (as per many stories on this forum and personal experience) does not convince a PD, and it's the sort of confrontation that would make many people angry, much less someone with the character traits of a PD.

I can surely understand the urge to do so. Gaslighting, lying and denial really wear a person down after time. Good luck in making this tough choice!

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VeryUncertain

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Re: Ive got ammo what to do with it?
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2018, 07:24:15 PM »
Recordings can be illegal in some states/countries, so be sure yours is legal before you show it around. 

I've found proof never convinces PDs in my FOO of anything.  There's always more BS and they add in the accusation that you tricked them or lured them or made them or whatever.  If you want them to pay you back, better have a contract and better be prepared to sue.  Otherwise, reality and proof are of no consequence.

Except that proof has been very useful for me to convince myself and those close to me that the PDs are toxic people.

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practical

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Re: Ive got ammo what to do with it?
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2018, 07:33:06 PM »
Nothing. Keep it as a reminder for yourself in case you need one otherwise nothing. If you think it would change their way, they would see the error of their ways, please think again, it isn't going to happen. You aren't going to get justice, your aren't going to be seen by them, and they aren't going to apologize to you, at least based on my experience.

If you do confront them, you most likely either get attacked or more gas lighting in the form of "I had every right to be angry!", "My behavior was only human and natural as I was the victim here." etc. and the words you hear on the tape don't matter for the story they will spin.

I have tried to reason with F many times when I was still in the FOG and even when I was mostly out of it, he didn't exactly deny the abuse, for him it was reasonable, it was justified, he had a right to speak his mind, he had to defend himself .... or he would turn us into the bad guys. Based on my experience with pointing things out to F (without any factual proof like you have), your parents might tell you, you are abusing them by having recorded them, you playing this to them. Except if you are looking for a way for them to kick you out of their life, for them to go NC with you, I wouldn't do anything with it.

I understand it feels like proof, it is only proof in the real world not in PDworld where feelings create facts, while facts aren't facts at all.
If Im not towards myself, who is towards myself? And when Im only towards myself, what am I? And if not now, when? (Rabbi Hillel)

"I can forgive, but I cannot afford to forget." (Moglow)

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Starboard Song

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Re: Ive got ammo what to do with it?
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2018, 07:46:12 PM »
Certainly hold on to it. But before letting anybody hear it, please do two things:

1. Make sure that single-consent recording is legal in your state. If we are talking about about an interstate phone call, both states have to be single-consent.

2. Ask yourself what Good and Happy thing you can achieve. Convincing others you are right may not count. Protecting someone from real and direct harm may.

Just realize that others are right: you will not persuade a disordered person with the hardest of evidence. Persuading others may be of little use. But you have probably been in need of some validation, and I hope this recording can provide the solace of being able to review a conversation, and assure yourself "this isn't me." You may want to share only with trusted confidants who can affirm your judgement of the audio, and provide further validation.

So much good luck to you.
Radical Acceptance, by Brach   |   Self-Compassion, by Neff    |   Mindfulness, by Williams   |   The Book of Joy, by the Dalai Lama and Tutu
Healing From Family Rifts, by Sichel   |  Stop Walking on Egshells, by Mason    |    Emotional Blackmail, by Susan Forward

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40andfab

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Re: Ive got ammo what to do with it?
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2018, 07:49:33 PM »
This happened to my PDm once. A very close family member recorded her having a nasty Narc tantrum with screaming, throwing things and the such - a classic raging fit! It was awful and some of the things she said were disgusting and deplorable. The family member was trying to prove that she was not crazy, that my PDm was mental. It backfired on her.

It did nothing but cause PDm to disown the family member and claim that she was purposefully provoked and that the recording was altered.  She threw a fit. She was so very "hurt" and blamed this family member for a great divide in the family. All she could speak of for months and months was how terrible this family member was, how "she couldn't believe how this person could betray her." She threw every single N behavior at her. Every single one. She gave a royal silent treatment, smearing, triangulation and all the tactics were used until this family member came back after a year and apologized, taking the responsibility for offending and "hurting" PDm. I was deeply in the fog at the time and witnessed this all firsthand. With shame, I admit I took my PDm's side.

She never, ever, not one time took any responsibility for her actions. She never even hinted at it.

The whole thing did nothing to prove anything to anyone, and the rest of the family supported PDm, including me.

I'm not trying to discourage you, but the PD's in my life can somehow actually alter reality to fit their version of things.

I guess I would ask you what your intentions are with the recording? When I was first coming Out of the FOG I really wanted my PDm and PDsis to "see" their behavior. I wanted the truth to be told in our family, but ended up being completely ostracized by everyone for pointing out a smear campaign. Now I know that instead of trying to have a personality disordered person validate my reality, I have to learn to do that myself. We can only control ourselves and maybe just having this recording on hand to listen to will help you when you need to remind yourself why you came here in the first place, or if you start thinking "they can't be that bad?" Depending on your journey, it can help if there is ever any hoovering in the future.


"The first step toward change is awareness. The second step is acceptance" Nathaniel Branden

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40andfab

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Re: Ive got ammo what to do with it?
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2018, 07:54:02 PM »

If you do confront them, you most likely either get attacked or more gas lighting in the form of "I had every right to be angry!", "My behavior was only human and natural as I was the victim here." etc. and the words you hear on the tape don't matter for the story they will spin.


I can attest to both of these statements being said after PDm was confronted with the recording.  :sadno:
"The first step toward change is awareness. The second step is acceptance" Nathaniel Branden

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The New Me!

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Re: Ive got ammo what to do with it?
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2018, 07:57:26 PM »
I doubt it would make any difference having evidence.  They'd probably accuse you of being an awful person because you've recorded their behaviour.  The poor me routine and let's face it it's never them is it? 

It's better to have the recording for your own peace of mind and to tell them that you have it I don't think will make any difference.

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GettingOOTF

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Re: Ive got ammo what to do with it?
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2018, 08:48:28 PM »
I don’t know about all PDs but I suspect they share common traits. One of the traits of BPD is that the person cannot look at themselves, they cannot see themselves as others do. It’s not that they don’t want to it’s that they can’t. They don’t want to cause people pain as such, they just can’t see things other than how they see and feel them.

No good can come of you doing anything with the recording and you will drive yourself insane trying to “prove” what they are like to themselves or to anyone else.

The most likely outcome is that you will look like the disordered one in their and other peoples eyes for recording the melt down. People will wonder what your part in the meltdown was and blame you.

I say this as someone who spent most of their life trying to get people to see what it was like for me, as a child in my home and later as an adult in my marriage. People don’t want to see these things, least of all the PD.

For me the key to healing myself and finding peace was stepping away from the “crazy” and figuring out why I felt the need to prove anything to anyone.

« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 08:56:22 PM by GettingOOTF »