When other people adore your PD parents

  • 22 Replies
  • 2524 Views
*

all4peace

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • 8111
When other people adore your PD parents
« on: August 26, 2018, 09:52:36 AM »
For years my parents have put a lot of energy and focus into "other people's kids." They host many parties for people their grandkids' ages. These young people are my mom's playmates, not her charity cases. These are who she wants to be friends with, spend time with. She has told a sibling about needing "infusions of youth." When I was a teen, she competed with me for my friendships. Now she's bypassing her own offspring, going to ours, and "drawing in" them with their friend group.

I was recently at a public event with her in which I was told by one person how much she loves my parents! She lives across the country and afaik would have interacted with them on a very limited basis.
Another young woman, with daughters of her own, told me "I'm obsessed with your mom! My daughters adore her!" Her daughters are very young, and seeing one of them on my mom's lap gave me a visceral wish to protect that child and get her away--far away--from uNBPDm. This young mother had had no idea (until introduction) that uNBPDm had a daughter, and that I was her.
In the short time in this environment, one of uNBPDm's comments was a very creepy way of referring to all the young women there.

By the end of the event, I felt agitated and unsettled, deeply disturbed by uNBPDm and her focus on young girls and young women, just wanting to get out of there and to feel clean again.
I also felt a fresh horror and shock at how deeply disturbed a PD parent can be on an energetic and soul level, and how often only their offspring know the truth.

uNBPDm had to be confronted about inappropriate boundary crossing by a family member at this event, and was apparently "sobbing" she was so upset. This story will go to enF, and queen/witch uNBPDm will be the poor, hunched over, victim waif. In fact, her posture was very much of the poor hunched-over old woman, despite her other favorite posture being the hyper-competent, athletic, amazing older woman who the younger generation can admire, post on social media and look up to.

I realize my post can sound bitter. What I think I actually feel is a deep disturbance. It is a deeply unsettling thing to come up against the image our parents are trying to project when we know to our core what they have actually been to us. That level of deceit and counterfeit are difficult to cope with. It let in me a deep need to feel clean again, to be in my own home and life, purging all the feelings and observations out of me, and just to be clean.  Thanks for listening. I'm sorry for those of you who come up against this far more frequently than I do.

*

looloo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 1457
Re: When other people adore your PD parents
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2018, 01:17:58 PM »
Hi all4peace,

Your title of this post, “when other people adore your PD parents”, is the tip of the tip of the iceberg of what you describe.  Thinking about it more, I wonder if another aspect is “when people don’t see what is actually going on”, or “when no one realizes that this is not innocent, this is actually sinister.”

Just because this behavior hasn’t escalated to a point where everyone in the room can agree that it’s crossed a line and is officially molestation, doesn’t mean for one second that YOU KNOW what’s happening.  YOU have personally experienced that creepy, “unclean” feeling, you’ve had a lifetime of your own experiences, and you have witnessed your mother’s manipulation and overly interested (e.g., predatory) behavior toward people that normally should NOT  register to that extreme degree. 

Is there someone like a professional therapist you can talk to about this?  You’re NOT imagining anything, and by the way, you don’t sound bitter at all!  You are truth telling.
“If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.”  Oscar Wilde.

"My actions are my true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand."  Thich Nhat Hanh

*

Summer Sun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 1250
Re: When other people adore your PD parents
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2018, 01:27:01 PM »
All4peace, your agitation, discomfort and unsettled feelings are so understandable.  So much of what you’ve written, I have lived, just juggle the characters is all.

Your strength, insight and composure is to me, a demonstration of grace.  No, you do not sound bitter, and what amazes me is the (apparent) absence of pain which for me offers a glimpse of the depth of your healing.  It is IME very painful for a parent to flaunt love, attention, resources on others while simultaneously withholding, abusing, demeaning their own - brilliantly covertly too so the outside world is blind to the deceit and reality of who the PD’s are.  It is deeply disturbing. 

Thanks for sharing your growth and grace.

Summer Sun
"The opposite of Love is not Hate, it's Indifference" - Elie Wiesel

*

11JB68

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 1980
Re: When other people adore your PD parents
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2018, 01:37:17 PM »
Yes I experienced this with my uPDm and still do, from afar, since I'm NC. She prided herself on having only one child, yet referred to my best friend as her other daughter. Hated that I went nc, yet drove a wedge between her nieces and their mother, and has now reportedly 'adopted' them (they are adults). Would go overboard buying excessive amounts of Xmas gifts for other children in our extended foo....even for kids whose parents were much better off financially than we were and surely did not need it. Would 'befriend' children (to be clear I've never suspected there was anything abusive going on there, just a sick psychological need)...I remember once she befriended the younger sister of a friend of mine and even had that child over for a sleepover (???) The girl was maybe 5...why did her parents think that was ok?? Because to the outside world she seemed wonderful...even now...very recently she had lunch with my uPD SIL....who then came crack and reported to uPD fil....who reported to me and uPDh....h and SIL can't stand each other....yuk.

*

StayWithMe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 778
Re: When other people adore your PD parents
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2018, 02:24:58 PM »
Quote
I realize my post can sound bitter.

I'm bitter about a few things, too.  If you can't show your true self, .......  god help us.

*

all4peace

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • 8111
Re: When other people adore your PD parents
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2018, 04:38:36 PM »
Thank you for sharing your understanding.

What I wanted to do was talk to this young mother and ask her if it made any alarms go off for her, knowing my parents have multiple children and grandchildren most of whom are at this point almost missing entirely from their lives. Didn't that make her wonder? Did she want to recklessly hand her precious children over to a smiling face, so trusting? I wanted to beg her to consider how little clothing her older daughter was wearing. I wanted to ask her to pay attention if at any point her children show reluctance or discomfort to be with my parents.

And my F, I just want to shake him. He will do ANYthing to keep uNBPDm happy. Does he think, ever, about the impacts of their behavior on their adult children, our kids? All I see is him working to get whatever it is that uNBPDm wants, no matter how weird it is, unsettling, inappropriate. As long as he can paste an image over the top of it, and as long as nobody looks too carefully, he will keep doing so.

I'd like to flat-out ask him what on earth he's doing. I don't really know if I'd reach him, or if he'd explode with rage, or something else. This is a man who continues to want to improve our relationship, with ZERO behavior that would actually do so, someone who still spends time with my adult child without saying a word about it (F doesn't really talk to me at all anymore), who attaches strings to enormous gifts to his grandchildren, who gifts absolutely nothing to his own children. A man who has apparently endless time and energy for all these teenagers my M wants to surround them with, but no time to meaningfully connect (or with me, not connect at all) with his actual adult children or grandchildren.

It's hard for me to put into words why this level of energy for M's "needs" makes me feel so much revulsion. Maybe it's being forced to see from the eyes of my adult self how grotesque it is, and always has been. Only long ago I was just a tiny girl, and my siblings even more powerless, and these were the people we relied on to love, cherish and nurture us. Ugh, I need to purge this out of me. That's what it feels like, an internal toxin that needs to be vomited out. I feel polluted by our parents, both DH's and mine. Poisoned and polluted. And to anyone watching, my M was nothing but a charming delight. This stuff is insidious.

I think of M as vampiric. I think I just witnessed an N with all her supply.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 04:54:57 PM by all4peace »

*

all4peace

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • 8111
Re: When other people adore your PD parents
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2018, 04:54:19 PM »
looloo, I have talked to my T about this in the past, what is held in my body, what I remember of totally inappropriate "mothering" and what I fear may have happened before I was old enough to hold memories. This little girl was approx 3 years old. I remember having protective feelings about children being around M in the past, but nothing like this. It was hard to not yank this girl out of M's arms and go wrap her in a blanket. I have a session this week, thankfully, and will definitely bring this up. It was really strong.

Summer sun, I think I don't feel pain because I feel so much revulsion. I don't want a relationship with her. I cannot ever remember a time of feeling loved by uNBPDm, but I remember knowing in my soul that she hated me, disliked me, was embarrassed by me. In adulthood, that actually changed for the better but I still had a nonstop discomfort and irritation when being around her. She has many irritating qualities she shows to family members, but it was really informative for me when I read Karla McClaren's work on anger and realized that irritation is a low-grade anger. I realized I was nonstop angry at M when in her presence. I think we allow all the pieces to come together when we're finally in a safe place to do so. I used to have a lot of pain and grief that I didn't have a good mother, or father, and sometimes waves of that hit me but I don't miss my actual M at all. I have no feelings of attachment to her whatsoever. No loyalty, no obligation, nothing. When I have lots and time and distance away from her, I care for her as another human and do not wish her harm. When I'm in her presence, I want to protect everyone from her.

11JB68, that is so hurtful. And really, really disturbing that your M is reaching out to your ILs. What a sense of violation and intrusion.

There are so many similarities between uNBPDm and enN?fil that it shocks me how long it took me to see the pattern. WIth M I'm the SG, and with fil I was the favored one, and I think that's why it took so long to see that Dh and I have incredibly similar parents of our gender.

*

Qilin~

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 61
Re: When other people adore your PD parents
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2018, 03:09:42 AM »
I can so relate to a lot of this. I’m sorry I don’t have any words of wisdom, but I am also feeling a lot of loathing and revulsion to PD parents right now. I think you are right, it is like a toxin or insidious poison that we need to get out. Maybe recognizing the poison helps our system get ready to cleanse it.

I guess it could actually be some old fear chemicals stuck in our tissues. Or that these situations ring a lot of alarm bells at a deep visceral level that were put into place at a young defenceless (maybe even preverbal) age. IDK. But it is creepy and horrible.

Wishing you purifying rage or disinterest or whatever you need or want. And clean air and cleansing waters for your soul.

*

KeepONKeepingON

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 117
Re: When other people adore your PD parents
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2018, 03:30:37 AM »
All4peace,

I have seen both of my parents charm people who don't know them. My father is thought of by many in his church as a very kind and holy man. The truth to those who know him is different. He could not cope with my angry BPD mother and did not protect me from her abuse and exploitation. When angry, he is cold and sarcastic. He was neglectful towards my siblings and I. I think he really destroyed any self confidence my brother might have had.

My mother is thought of a 'character' and fun by those who don't know her well.

Personally for me, an overly charismatic person who really has to have my attention and has to have positive responses from me now makes me uncomfortable. I can't quite describe this feeling towards this kind of person, maybe it's someone who just really seems to want to control how others see them.

My uncle again, is very charming and charismatic. My cousin, his eldest daughter who lived with him up until her death,  died by suicide at 50. She suffered from alcoholism and depression all her life. I know my uncle emotionally abused her and I do wonder if he sexually abused her too.

All4peace - can you avoid these social occasions? They sound uncomfortable. I am sorry you have to go through this, it sounds very painful. :bighug:

A.  It is IME very painful for a parent to flaunt love, attention, resources on others while simultaneously withholding, abusing, demeaning their own - brilliantly covertly too so the outside world is blind to the deceit and reality of who the PD’s are.  It is deeply disturbing. 

Summer Sun

 :yeahthat:
This young mother had had no idea (until introduction) that uNBPDm had a daughter, and that I was her.
 

I am sorry All4peace, it's so strange that your mother's friends don't know that she has a daughter.


*

daughterofbpd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 1219
Re: When other people adore your PD parents
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2018, 05:21:28 PM »
All4Peace,

That must have been a really difficult thing to witness. I had something happen on a lesser level. My M lost a friend to cancer and began texting this friend’s daughter, who is the same age as my Sis. I was upset by the injustice of it all – this young girl thinks my M is loving and supportive - it is so easy for M to only show her “nice” side when she isn’t as involved in this girl’s life. This young girl has made choices that I know my M would not have approved if it had been her own daughter, plus she extends support to this young girl that Sis and I never received.  In my M’s case, I can’t imagine her becoming enmeshed with someone non-family, she seems to understand that others have their own lives and need space (just not her own daughters). In that case, this girl is probably safe from ever knowing the nastiness and drama that M can spread. Even if this girl isn’t “in danger” from my M, it doesn’t seem fair that M can be adored by her. This is one more person who is going to assume I am a terrible daughter because of only one snippet she’s seen of M’s personality. This is one more person that M is going to use as “proof” that I am the defective one because she is perfectly capable of having loving relationships with other young women. I think a part of her also enjoys trying to make me jealous and make me feel like I was replaced. It only hurts to see her extend the compassion and acceptance to a stranger that she couldn’t muster up for her own daughter.

It sounds like there’s more reason for concern with your M. If there’s risk of enmeshment then there’s a risk for disaster. I understand you feeling a moral obligation to warn the young mother, I’m just afraid of how that info might be received. I’m hoping your T can provide some good advice on this one.

Take care and good luck with everything.
“How starved you must have been that my heart became a meal for your ego”
~ Amanda Torroni

*

SaltwareS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 1047
Re: When other people adore your PD parents
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2018, 09:02:29 PM »
I think that's one thing I accomplished going NC for a few years (I resumed contact) - I wanted to sort of show the world that not all was perfect with my parent. I used to have people tell me how lucky I was to have her as a mother. OMG. ::vomit::

After going NC for a few years I started to remember here and there other peoples' comments that acknowledged my NPDm was a fun person, but probably a difficult person to have as a m. Before NC, I was sort of in that vortex where "nobody sees what I have to deal with.

I think it's weird to say that to someone "I'm obsessed with your mom!" I've always had a low tolerance for people who say things like that, it's just so, naive. No adult child of an NPD parent would say that, ever, to someone. I would hope. It just seems so obvious. Everyone needs to be "seen" in their own light.

*

Sooz

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 53
Re: When other people adore your PD parents
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2018, 05:49:51 AM »
This story will go to enF, and queen/witch uNBPDm will be the poor, hunched over, victim waif. In fact, her posture was very much of the poor hunched-over old woman, despite her other favorite posture being the hyper-competent, athletic, amazing older woman who the younger generation can admire, post on social media and look up to.

Can really relate to this!

They’re so far into denial about the ageing process that they begin to appear delusional in the extreme.

My NM is mid-70s and also beginning to appear hunched over, wrinkled and frail, while simultaneously trying to present as a superfit, athletic 25 year old. She also takes pride in intercepting her young granddaughters’ clothing (destined for the charity shop) and wearing the fashions of 10-12 year olds. As you can imagine, this is nothing short of ridiculous, but NO ONE (apart from me) sees through her and all her fans and followers think she’s amazing. Yuk!

*

all4peace

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • 8111
Re: When other people adore your PD parents
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2018, 10:52:49 AM »
Sooz, uNBPDm used to hand her clothes down to me, now she's trying to give them directly to her granddaughters. That was a bit of an eye-opener to me.  :doh:

SaltwareS, it just hit me weird. "Obsessed" is such a strange word to use to describe a supposedly good relationship.

daughterofbpd, how painful! It's really tough to cope with the confusion of feelings when our truly abusive Ms "get along so well!" with other young women, and we know they're using that to erase any sense of responsibility or guilt in themselves. Ouch. My dear sister and I used to feel a lot of pain over this a decade ago and used to joke about M's "real daughters," all the women she went through, too busy for us, way too overscheduled with all the fun things she was doing with these other women who were her daughter's age. Now she's heading one generation even further down, those who are having babies, dating, just getting married. She befriending those 2 generations younger, 40 years younger.

Yes, I'm very concerned about the feelings that came up in me when seeing her with a young child on her lap. It's so frustrating because the memories I have could be dismissed as "mothering," despite my M being entirely non-nurturting, non-comforting and overall just a totally hands-off M, except for times when she was completely invasive in bewildering and uncomfortable ways. Plausible deniability. I won't warn this young mother, as I have nothing to go on. If I ever get concrete memories back that were more usable, then I would warn every young family with small children that M worms her way into.

I was the dumping  ground for her emotional garbage. I was the one, as a teen, she told that she used to wonder if she was gay because she liked to "check women out." The one who told me about the violence between my grandparents and how the victim "had it coming." I was her advisor for raising my younger siblings, the therapist for her marriage, the place she could puke out everything she couldn't tell anyone else. So maybe my discomfort comes from multiple places.

*

Dinah-sore

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 789
Re: When other people adore your PD parents
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2018, 06:33:02 PM »
Oh, All4Peace I am so sorry that you are going through this. What you describe is sooooo creepy. That feeling you have is absolutely understandable. I have that feeling too, just reading what you wrote. What is taking place sounds like a cult leader, charming people to form a following.

My BPDm is not quite that bad, but she also is obsessed with connecting and becoming friends with my friends. I often feel like she is trying to hijack my friendships. I can't go on Facebook without seeing her commenting on the statuses of my friends, many of whom are people she has never even talked to in real life. I wonder if she sits at home going through my friends list and trying to add them all as friends. She is becoming close friends online with a friend of mine who I haven't seen or talked to in 12 years, who is about 5 years younger than me. My mom has never spent time with this person in real life. I am her only connection to this person. I have no clue why they are online friends. But I always see my mom "praying" for this person underneath her status updates. It makes me feel like she is a dog peeing on my territory. I know that is not a polite image, but that is what it feels like.

I wonder if your mom is trying to use those young people and their kids to make you feel jealous? To say to you, "See! All4Peace, other people love me. What is wrong with you? Look at how wonderful they think I am!!!!"

She probably picks needy people too. People who she can easily manipulate and charm (just a guess).

Anyways, I just wanted to say that you are not wrong, that this is really strange and you are right to feel how you feel.
"I had to accept the fact that, look, this is who I am. I have to be who I am, and all of us have a right to be who we are. And whenever we submit our will, because our will is a gift, our will is given to us, whenever we submit our will to someone else's opinion a part of us dies." --Lauryn Hill

*

all4peace

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • 8111
Re: When other people adore your PD parents
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2018, 07:37:39 PM »
Dinah-sore--I've had that dog image MANY times, both with uNfil and uNBPDm as they invade our territory. My instant image has been a dog lifting its leg.

For M, I think she needs supply. She's an extrovert, highly competitive. She would really suffer spending time alone. Now that she's retired, she can't get out her aggression and competitiveness at work.
And I think a huge part of her needs to feel soothed regarding her "mothering." She has lost her children, and most of her grandchildren. I think she needs validation that she is a wonderful mother, even if to other people's children. Nothing wrong with that IF you're a healthy parent to your own first.

Dinah-sore, how intrusive. It feels like we lose our safe friend groups when our parents infiltrate everything. It's really hard to avoid their presence when they shove into every corner of our life. What are the options? Abandon friendships, try to explain how toxic our parents are, find new friends? I feel for you. It's part of why I'm barely on FB at this point.

As for the sexually super-uncomfortable feelings, I asked T today if it possible for me to have these feelings of pollution and discomfort if my M were a healthy M. He said that it would be possible for me to simply be registering her as "unsafe!" on all levels when I'm in her presence. But he also knows her highly invasive and strange sexual history with me, and says it could be coming from this also.

*

RoseWater

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 42
Re: When other people adore your PD parents
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2018, 07:17:28 PM »
" I also felt a fresh horror and shock at how deeply disturbed a PD parent can be on an energetic and soul level.."

Peace,

This post completely resonates with me on every level. And what you said  :yeahthat: (above), my gosh, I know this.
I have been NC for years now but the mere thought of being near uNPD witch waif queen mum makes me feel untethered, gross, shaking, agitated.
My machiavellian mum also has her share of admirers she has cultivated. One of the hardest things to get over in my personal journey of detaching, NC and the healing after, is the INVALIDATION! How covert, sick and twisted the abuse is, how they curate it to tailor to their victims, even the ones that love them.

The last person who tried to hoover me back regarding my mum got a simple yet straightforward email. Here is an excerpt of said email I sent in response to this persons hoovering ( another of my mums many new "friends" she makes, before the devaluation stage kicked in).
My mum was psychologically, emotionally and physically abusive. You knew her on and off for 5 years, you know nothing. You are being triangulated which makes you complicit in her abuse. Please stop emailing me.

That did it. Peace, I send you so much healing cleansing light, like a fresh shower of rain to wash away the stench of horror you had to go through.

I get it. 

*

all4peace

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • 8111
Re: When other people adore your PD parents
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2018, 05:14:24 PM »
eagleeewriter, thank you for your compassionate response. I'm so sorry that you face this with your own M, and feel traumatized at the thought of contact with her. I haven't faced FMs yet but like your straightforward approach. I have thought of something along the lines of "It's great you enjoy her. Being her daughter hasn't been quite as wonderful." It all feels icky, though. Who wants to have a conversation like that, but who wants to see the dichotomy and say nothing? So many catch-22s. Really, the most upsetting part is not that my M has people who admire her. That's good for her, better for me in that she'll leave me alone. The worst part is not trusting that she is decent and feeling fear for those under her influence, even if just at an unspoken, energetic level. But maybe it doesn't impact people when it's just a few hrs here and there, versus an entire 18 years and then some.

*

RoseWater

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 42
Re: When other people adore your PD parents
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2018, 10:31:14 AM »
Hey Peace-

The weird thing is is that I totally comply with my rule of "Do NOT ENGAGE" when I have gotten hoovered. But this time, this person, whom I have never met, does not know me and has no darn business even emailing me, I felt absolutely compelled to shut it down. And i won't lie, I did get a sort of satisfaction. However, I then got a rush of fear over this getting back to my mum, her reaction, and how this might prompt her to contact me. I realised that breaking my rule of DO NOT ENGAGE was perhaps not worth it.

Take away I got from this? My mum still triggers me deeply. Also, delete emails from any enabler and hoover. Not worth the trigger. But the nerve of a stranger? It only shows how sick the whole mess is, how she can find these people to do her bidding. I am not in this mess and I must be vigilant with my NC. No more responses out of me to anyone. Lesson learned.

*

Lillith65

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 310
Re: When other people adore your PD parents
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2018, 04:10:40 PM »
I experience this too.

So many people have said to me ‘Oh, I love your mum and dad.’ These are members of my extended family and friends and acquaintances.

It is hard for me to hear and I sometimes want to tell them what they have both said and done to me over the years. I don’t say anything though because I know that I would be painted as crazy or needy for ‘spreading stories’. I have been thoroughly invalidated in my family and with their acquaintances so it is pointless to try and correct the picture.

On good days I am glad that at least some people have good experiences of them without knowing the shadow side,
You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm - anonymous.

Part of my story: https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=54885.msg488293#msg488293
https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=54892.msg488385#msg488385

NC uPDM; NC uBPDSis

*

Deb2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 602
Re: When other people adore your PD parents
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2018, 07:10:40 PM »
A4P, it's not my mother, it's my uNPDBIL. I hear people fawning all over him and want to vomit. He has 2 daughters who see him maybe once a year.   He never saw them while they were growing up, even though they lived close by. I told their mothers that they should be glad that they had daughters and he didn't care enough to see them. His son, on the other hand, is a real hot mess. Drug and alcohol addictions, living off his dad. My BIL treats him like crap. Humiliates him in front of people. But there are nephews and nieces who think he is all "it".

The funny thing is, my husband is close with BOTH of his daughters and they talk about how much they have learned from him. 

IDK what or if you should say something. They might not listen. But I truly get where you're coming from.