This is new -sort of

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This is new -sort of
« on: September 14, 2018, 10:58:34 AM »
I often receive accusations from u/npd exH.

Often they're along the lines of "ds11 said that you did x in response y.  That is unacceprable."

Tonight I received: (paraphased) "Ds says that you were angry when I said I wouldn't do x. This is emotional abuse according to the following link to (some government website). My solicitor will be notified."

One: I wasn't angry when u/npd exH said he wouldn't do x.  I laughed.

 2: I'm sure I didn't even tell ds that I'd requested x of U/npd exH, let alone that he had refused.

Occasionally I get angry at something u/npd exH says or does but I generally don't tell ds.

Probably 2 things have happened.  U/npd exH or his nwife has fished for information from ds. He's remembered a completely different situation where I was angry about something else and mistakenly applied it to the above situation that he wasn't aware of until u/npd exH told him of it.

I identify this as triangulation so I don't intend to bring it up with ds.

But should I be worried about the accusation of emotional abuse and the link? Or the threat to tell his solicitor?

AOD

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Stepping lightly

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Re: This is new -sort of
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2018, 01:09:02 PM »
Hi AoD-

Don't involve DS- he doesn't need to be pulled into the middle of everything more than he already is by his his father.  I wouldn't worry about the link, it's just u/npd exH flexing and trying to intimidate you.    If anything, you may want to just respond very simply with, "I don't discuss adult decisions with DS, so this account of my reaction is inaccurate".  Just leave it there.  It makes him look like a fool for discussing such things with DS, and it documents that you don't discuss them, and his accusation is off base.


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Penny Lane

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Re: This is new -sort of
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2018, 01:55:29 PM »
I suggest it also might be projection. HE was mad at YOUR response so he imagines that you were mad at his response.

SO mostly ignores emails like this. But while they're in court he's been doing a little more documenting in response. I could go either way on whether it's a good idea to reply but if you do you could say something like "I don't discuss co-parenting matters with DS so if he learned about the situation it would have been at your house."

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Re: This is new -sort of
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2018, 10:04:00 AM »
Thanks for your responses.

I didn't respond to uNPD exH and didn't bring it up with ds. And he didn't bring it up with me.

So it's now yet more muddy water under the bridge and on to the next swamp.

AOD

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athene1399

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Re: This is new -sort of
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2018, 01:18:22 PM »
SO and I would have not responded to BM if she said something like that. My opinion is it would probably just spur an argument.  But I would suggest documenting it so if it does come up in court at some point you remember what happened. I would agree with Penny in that it is probably your ex projecting his own anger. Sounds like he's just trying to reverse the blame from him (for not doing x) onto you.

We are told all the time by BM or SD that we were upset about something when we never were, or that SD was afraid to tell us something because of how she thought we'd react. I've been with SO for four years and we've never raised our voice or become upset with SD once in that time period. We even ask her that sometimes, if she can remember us ever being upset with her. She says no, but is still afraid we would be. It makes us sad. I don't know if SD thinks this because of how BM reacts (she has a tendency to rage and tantrum if she doesn't get her way) or if BM tells SD we will react that way.

But I wouldn't worry about your ex's accusations, but document it somewhere in case it comes up on a later date you can say what really happened and how DS wasn't there when you reacted and you don't discuss things like that with him.

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Re: This is new -sort of
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2018, 10:15:12 AM »
So this happened again tonight.

Yesterday ds12 was devastated by a decision his uNPD father has made. His father is saying that he had to make the decision because of my "unacceptable behaviour".

I knew nothing about the decision or that uNPD exH was unhappy with anything I'd done.

So I spent yesterday in major damage control and discussing with ds how we could manage the fall out of uNPD exH's decision.

Ds spent his usual few hours with his father this afternoon.

I then receive an email from uNPD exH saying that ds told him that I was angry in response to to uNPD exH's decision.

I wasn't angry. Just 1) in shock, and 2) really disappointed for ds.  I told ds yesterday when he first told me of his father's decision, that I needed time to process the information.  Ds now says that he thought that meant I was angry. Hence what he told his uNPD father.

So his father has now emailed me the link again (or maybe it's a different one. I don't know. I didn't bother to check.), and says he's telling his solicitor - again

I'm not really worried. But I am wondering what the solicitor can do. It's really uNPD exH's word against mine. Or not even, really,  since he wasn't witness to the conversations that I've had with ds.

But there are nightmare situations I've read of where things have gone very badly against the innocent party in similar situations.

What, if anything, could happen?

AOD

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Stepping lightly

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Re: This is new -sort of
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2018, 11:32:02 AM »
So, let me get this straight....

uNPD exH makes a decision that is unpopular with DS12, and tells DS12 that it's "your fault" he had to make the decision.  Then DS12 tells his dad that you were angry about the decision, which is what uNPD exH is going to tell his solicitor?

First of all, he can own his own decisions and not blame them on you.  He is a grownup.  Such a PD maneuver.
Second, he made an unpopular decision, then blamed YOU for the decision- that's an parental alienation tactic- that would be great to discuss in court.  He should not bring the child into the middle of parent decisions.
Third, you were blamed for a decision you had no part in that was used as an alienation tactic for your child and you were expected NOT to get angry?

How does any of that make him the hero?  Let him tell his solicitor, it's his money down the toilet.


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Penny Lane

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Re: This is new -sort of
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2018, 03:15:20 PM »
Is your gut telling you that he's trying to worry you or that he's really going to go after you for "emotional abuse?"

I think you could write up an email saying what really happened between you and DS in a short unemotional way. If your gut is telling you it's the first thing, just send it to yourself to document. If you think your ex is going to escalate it, you could send it to him - basically correct the record and then maybe add something like "in the future, when you make these sorts of decisions for DS, it would be helpful to give me a heads up so I can be more prepared to discuss it with him" or even "I was confused when DS told me you said it was my fault you made this decision, since we hadn't discussed it at all. In the future, I'd appreciate it if you try to avoid putting DS in the middle of our parenting decisions in this way." I find that usually when BM sends SO an accusation like this, if he tries to turn it into a productive discussion about how they could do better for the kids, she stops engaging. Plus, you're creating a record that you're trying to work with him on the "issues" he's raising and that he seems to be the one refusing to participate in finding a solution.

I agree with Stepping Lightly that he doesn't come out looking good here. But I also hear you about being worried that this could go awry even though you've done nothing wrong. I think all you can do is your best - you can't control whether your ex will escalate this or what the court will do, but you can be a steady presence for DS and make sure you're documenting what's really going on in case you do have to explain it to a judge.

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MeFirst

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Re: This is new -sort of
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2018, 06:53:44 AM »
My 2 cents worth......it sounds lile he us baiting you and wantu g ti msnufacture an argument. I have had similar recently myself.  I am still not sure whether to emsil a response.

Its hard to know what to do or not to do. And you have to weigh up the risks of responding or not responding.

Ultimately this stuff will probably be read in an affadavit by a judge or listened to by a family report writer, so I usually ask myself does an email now make a difference or not?

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Re: This is new -sort of
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2018, 09:48:43 AM »
Thanks, Folks.

I forgot to mention that the (my) "unacceptable behaviour" that uNPD EXh and his uNPD wife described to ds was not the same "unacceptable behaviour" that uNPD exH accused me of in his email.

Aaanywaaay....

Nothing I write in response to uNPD exH will be believed or accepted. It will just bring on more accusations and vacuous threats. So I'm disinclined to respond.

The decision he made has a 2 fold effect. The less serious one which ds is upset about (some of his fun is taken away), and the more long term serious one which effects my ability to be his Mum.

I've managed to partially solve the first, so ds is happier. But I can't think of a solution to the latter.

I'm tempted to write about it on these boards but may be identified if I do.

Maybe later.

The stupidist parr is that the decision uNPD exH made actually sabotages himself and his family.

So he's hurt ds and inconvenienced himself and his family in order to punish me for something he's assumed I did that I didn't do.

 :stars: :blink: :o :spaceship:

AOD

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athene1399

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Re: This is new -sort of
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2018, 09:10:17 AM »
AOD,

I wouldn't worry about the threat, but document your side in case it does come up. Maybe reiterate with DS that it's okay that he misinterpreted what you meant and reported back. He may feel like he made the situation worse, and he shouldn't' feel the guilt for that. Maybe let him know it's okay to ask you about your feelings if he's unsure of what you mean. That also shows him that its okay to discuss feelings.

I would also not dispute what your ex said to your ex. 1) he won't listen to your side anyway and 2) he's probably just trying to get a rise out of you. But I do like Penny's idea of asking him to make you a part of decisions like this. Maybe tell him that in order for you guys to effectively co-parent (which I know is impossible, but it makes a better argument) you need to hear these decision from him and would like to be a part of helping him make these decisions. Even if he doesn't listen to you, you still have evidence that you tried.

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Penny Lane

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Re: This is new -sort of
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2018, 12:25:55 PM »
I would also not dispute what your ex said to your ex. 1) he won't listen to your side anyway and 2) he's probably just trying to get a rise out of you.

Totally agree! The point of any email to him is NOT to get him to agree and come around (not that it would be a bad thing if he did! It just seems ... highly unlikely). The point would be to show a judge which parent is the real problem. So for example if he went to the judge and said, I should have custody because she doesn't work with me or answer my emails, you can point to this one (and maybe a handful more like it) and say, look, I've tried to work with him on his concerns, even though I don't share them, and I just get this unproductive rage back. It's not goading him into saying something nasty, it's more like, doing an experiment to see if you can turn this into productive and as a bonus having evidence to the judge that you've done EVERYTHING you can think of to work with him.

Of course you don't want to do it with every email - that would be EXHAUSTING. SO does it sort of intermittently, especially in areas where he actually would like to see BM do something that's productive for the kids.

Sounds like AOD you've already decided it's not the right thing for you so this is mostly for anyone else reading along who is looking for ways to document something similar.