Clothing (more venting)

[Stepping lightly]

Luckily my step kids are a bit older now, so I can be a bit more blunt.  When I do laundry I make a pile of clothes that belong to BM for them to take/wear back.  They've been through the drama.  There have been times when DSS insisted a shirt belonged at BMs, I knew it didn't...it was a brand we exclusively buy...and BM doesn't.  I told him, "It's a shirt that we bought, and I honestly don't mind if you bring it back to your moms.  I don't want you have to have any issues to deal with, so you do what you need to do- it's ok either way".  We are so done with tiptoeing....we really don't mind if they want to have things at BMs- we actually are happy when they take things with them (but like you all said...not things like jackets that don't come back.....we had that issue last year too.  Brand new jacket "disappeared" right before our big trip in freezing weather and we had to buy a new one).

we may need some prayers though, I did laundry yesterday and as I was switching loads found an unrecognizable cashmere sweater that had worked it's way unknowingly through the process.  I've never seen it before in my life- and I know DSD dumped her gym back in the laundry last time she was here....so there were a few things in there I hadn't seen her wear.  That's my best guess.  So...it's a bit small after it's hot water wash.....

[Penny Lane]

Yikes!!! Isn't it sad how these normal things end up causing us stress? I hope you can avoid a SweaterGate 2018!

That reminded me that recently I was doing laundry and I found some 4T (!!!!!!) boys underwear. My SS is 11 and SD is 8 and we could not figure out which of them was wearing them??? Anyway we have been trying really hard to send every single thing back to her house, even if it's small, ripped or inappropriate. But I guess I draw the line somewhere before "at least four sizes too small underwear' so I just threw them out.

This thread is also reminding me that one year we went to the mountains during the summer. BM had kept basically all of the kids' sweatshirts/jackets at her house that previous spring. SO started asking her one month before the trip for specific jackets (the nicer ones that would be warmer but also good for hiking). She never sent the jackets he asked for and instead sent these cheap thin ones that she had bought that the kids straight up refused to wear. After a month of asking! We ended up having to pull out some old jackets because these ones were so inappropriate for the weather we were going to.

I've started being more explicit too. "Why don't you wear this shirt today, your mom bought it and I'm sure she'd love it back?" I think presenting it in a casual neutral way like "this is just one of the things we do" is helpful. SD will cheerfully point out shirts and say "I'll wear that one back to mom's house today!" now and it doesn't have to be a whole thing at all. Fingers crossed that this will get even easier as they get older!

[Whiteheron]

The other day the kids came back from stbx's house. I was talking to DD, who suddenly said "not now mom, I really need to go change these clothes, they're way too small!"

So he's either not doing their laundry or hasn't bothered to buy them new clothes.

I'm noticing their clothing supply at my house is steadily decreasing...

[Penny Lane]

I got a little insight into this topic recently ... one of the kids told me that they had all done a massive load of laundry at mom's house. And then she started sending stuff back that they had worn over WEEKS earlier. So I guess it had been several weeks since she had done any laundry?

The other is that SD was looking for a specific shirt to wear, and we couldn't find it, and I said, is it possible you wore it to your mom's house and it's over there? She said "No, I don't have a lot of shirts at mom's house." I guess that explains why they wear the same two or three things over and over back over here - it's all they have.

[lilyflower236]

I feel all of this so much. I commented on the other clothing thread too. Some highlights from the holiday break:

Son opens package with new ran cargo pants I knew he really wanted since he outgrew the last pair. He exclaims "Yay! (Stepmom) really wanted these!" I was like, wth? I didn't buy clothes for HER! This is how messed up she has made my son about his clothes. He gets new clothes and instead of being excited to get something he wanted, he's only concerned with making HER happy, probably so he doesn't have to hear her complain about clothes from my house.

Another night we were picking out clothes for the next day and my son blurts our "You need to buy me clothes from (store)! Clothes from any other store are crappy!" (He's 8 btw)

I have never been a clothing label person. I am a single parent and I don't have much money. My priorities are clothes that fit and clothes that are clean. I love shopping consignment sales and so does my mom, so we have so have a mix of nicer brands plus discount store clothes. But anyway, I tell my son that it's ok for him to have preferences about clothing  styles/colors but claiming clothes from only ONE store are good and the rest aren't is not true and actually pretry hurtful to me and anyone else he knows that doesn't buy clothes there, like some of his classmates. I asked if he was repeating things he's been told, and shockingly, he said yes. His stepmother and adult stepbrother told him to say that to me.

I don't want it to get under my skin because that's what they want but it's sooo irritating and it's just another way to stress out our kids.

[Penny Lane]

Oh man I am with you on all of this especially this thing:

I don’t want it to get under my skin because that’s what they want but it’s sooo irritating and it’s just another way to stress out our kids.

I too always get the sense that BM thinks the clothes she buys for the kids "belong" to her. SO and I would never say that we "really want" a certain item of clothing for the kids! And if we feel like the kids really need something we'd buy it for them anyway!

We had some clothing drama over winter break too. We'd gotten into a REALLY good routine of just sending every single thing BM sent over here, back to her house. And she was mostly sending stuff back here. But then, right before winter break, when there was SNOW ON THE GROUND, she sent the kids over in ... shorts. I mean, what? So I guess we'll just keep those shorts until the summer. I can't figure out the reasoning - was it all she had? Was she trying to get another pair of pants out of us before the holiday? It also seems that she didn't buy any coats for them this year, and although in theory that's annoying in practice it's good because that means they always wear our coats back here (since those are the only coats they have over there).

She also apparently bought a bunch of way-too-big clothes for DSD because that's what she's been wearing other than the shorts. And I'm pretty sure she told DSS that one of his favorite shirts from here is too big for him and now he won't wear it anymore  .

The good news is, the kids seem to both be trying really hard to remember to bring stuff back. They took some of their Christmas presents over to her house and they were really proud to show us that they'd brought them back, along with some older stuff that I thought was surely gone forever!

[Deb2]

I went through this when my SD was little. Her mom would also send her with filthy close in a bag. Several times they ate her mom's! My MIL told me not to wash them,  just seemed them back. I finally started buying heret cheese things at thrifts and garage sales.  She changed out of what she was wearing as soon as she got to our house and changed back before she left. 

I wish I could say she finally quit doing that,  but she didn't.  What changed is my SD getting older and taking better care of her own things.

[Sniperon]

I have the same kind of problem with my ex also. I bought to daughter a teddy coat from Lily Lulu and she went to visit her mother, she came back with another coat, an old one that was probably worn by her mother. How to deal with that now? I'm not home these days, I'm in another state and as soon as I go home, I'll talk to my ex. How can my daughter still call her "mother" after such acts from her?

[Magnolia34]

Pennylane, you're absolutely correct. This is the topic that goes on and on.

I've started just trying to be really matter of fact about it. DSD15 keeps track of her stuff pretty well. She has a backpack she takes back and forth with a few of her favorite things in them but she mostly has what she needs. The younger boys are harder. DSS10 is pretty good about wearing a BM outfit to our house and then remembering to wear it back the next week when he leaves. When I do his laundry I fold up that outfit and set it aside so he knows right where it is. He changes out of his church clothes on Sunday and wear's BM's outfit back. DSS13 was starting to get bad about losing things he would take to BM's. I bought several "athletic" outfits for his summer activity and after a few weeks they had all disappeared and he "needed athletic clothes." Maybe I'm just really picky about knowing what we have, but I asked him several times to make sure he brought them back from BM's and he either didn't bother to look or they disappeared. How do you lose multiple outfits?! So recently I've started throwing an outfit out for him before they go back to BM's on Sunday and super casually reminding him to change that afternoon. "I put your mom's clothes on your bed if you want to make sure you change before you leave!" If we don't have anything that I'm 100% belongs to BM I'll just pick a random tshirt and a pair of jeans or shorts I know are on the way to the goodwill bin. He seems okay with it.

[Penny Lane]

I have a somewhat good update to this topic. This is very new but I have high hopes for it.

DSS is now 12 and is extremely responsible about bringing stuff back. So he's allowed to bring anything he wants to his mom's house, even occasionally I let him bring something that belongs to me.

DSD, not so much. So our new rule is very simple: "You can bring anything to your mom's house as long as it won't stress me out to never see it again." Older coats and other winter stuff, anything that came from her mom's house, anything that just belongs to her - free reign! Her new coat this year, snow boots, her best gloves and hat, my stuff - nope, that stays here. So far it has not caused any problems, we'll see how it goes.

[topaz]

Ugh! Just here to say "Same/similar!", unfortunately with no real solutions.

I agree with all the comments that it's about control - and it's controlling not just the child but also the non-PD parent, who (especially depending on the child's age) finds him/herself in a situation where the PD parent is still exerting power even though the romantic relationship has ended.

We get a lot of slightly-too-small clothes returning with DS (6). And certainly some of his nicer/newer clothing just seems to disappear when he wears it over to his NPD dad's house. I don't mind hugely right now, because I just put the slightly-too-small clothes into storage to save for his younger sibling (due in the spring!  ), and I take it out of the rotation. But it's still super annoying and requires probably purchasing additional items I wouldn't otherwise.

What really annoys me is how my NPD exH has totally convinced DS that "mom doesn't buy cool-looking clothing" even when it's DS who was the one to choose the clothing! So, for example, DS wanted warm fuzzy sweatpants and so I bought him some. He thought they were great for being comfy and playing even when it's cold on the playground.... until his dad told him that they're "really just pajama pants". Now DS won't wear them, or feels self-conscious about doing so (even though he LOVED them originally). It's true that warm fuzzy sweatpants probably aren't the "coolest" looking item of clothing, but this is a kindergartner, and he's asserting his own style and preferences in appropriate ways and it's just sort of heartbreaking to see him be teased about it by his DAD.

Or I let DS choose new socks for this school year, and he chose a big bulk pack of socks in a variety of colors and patterns he liked. Well, "dad says these colors don't match anything and only white socks are cool". He'll wear the colorful socks on non-exchange days (he really does like them!), but heaven forbid that all the white socks are in the laundry on a day he's going back to dad's house: "My dad will be mad at me!" What makes the socks thing especially aggravating is that I didn't buy many white socks for his current shoe size, and all the white socks returning from his dad's house are two or three sizes too small. So, this morning, DS (6) went to school wearing "toddler age 3"-size socks because those were the only clean white ones. And heaven forbid dad see him wearing blue socks.

So: gah. I'm looking forward to the day when DS decides his dad isn't the arbiter of "cool" and he does something like dye his hair blue in rebellion. I feel like if I have a blue-haired teenage son, I'll know he's learning to escape from his dad's control.

[Magnolia34]

So this is the one topic I don't follow to the letter of the law and here's why. The older kids do okay making sure they have what they need dispersed between the two houses. DSS10's has a harder time keeping track so here is his routine: He'll wear an outfit from BM's to our house on Sunday. When I fold his clean laundry I set that outfit aside and he puts it on the following Sunday before he goes back to BM's. She used to be really militant about the fact that he HAD to wear our clothes back and forth. So none of "her" clothes ended up at our house (I think that was just a control thing). This got turned around somehow and now he wears her outfits back and forth. But like many of you, we often get socks and underwear that are SO small and full of holes or dirty that I've just been throwing them out and sending him back in our stuff. From what DH has said she hoards things like clothes and shoes and I'm starting to believe it. I don't think she has any idea what she has and from what I can tell the kids are in charge of doing their own laundry over there. I have tossed SO many items of clothing (big kids' stuff too) that has been left here. I do make sure that whatever they're wearing back to BM's is in better shape than what she sent and so far she either hasn't noticed or doesn't care. My goal is to eventually cycle through all of her things, get rid of the inappropriate stuff and if we have to supply both houses with the proper sized socks and underwear then so be it!

I'm a pretty big rule follower but I couldn't stand the thought of a 10 year old in toddler underwear so I gave up.

Another frustration we have is that, in their parenting agreement they're supposed to split the purchase of things like shoes and coats. DH buys for the youngest two and she buys for the oldest two. But for the last few years she never bought anyone anything so we just did it. Well recently, after we got everyone stocked up with coats and shoes for the winter, she went and bought them as well and now the kids are SUPER weird about wearing our stuff. I don't want to make it a huge deal with them but I'm also tired of spending money on clothes they won't wear because, like TOPAZ, she shames them out of wearing things we buy. Maybe start with socks and underwear that actually fit? Ugh.

[Penny Lane]

Topaz, congratulations on expecting! How exciting, some extremely happy news in all the stress.

I'm with you though on the manipulation. The kids will wear something they love and come back and dejectedly say it's bad for some reason. We try our best to only get the kids clothes that they like - but it seems like those are the clothes that BM goes after the hardest. There is no winning.

Acc, I too have just decided that we're just going to buy new socks and underwear. It is not worth it to make a philosophical stance, or whatever, if it means the kids have to wear toddler undies at age 10.

[pushit]

Just had a similar experience last night, except it was a book not clothes.  D9 has been raving about a book series she recently found and just finished #3.  She had checked out the book from the school library.  I asked her last night if she checked out #4 to start on, she said someone else has it so she is waiting.  She then said that at exPDw's house they have the set of books 1-5.  I said "so, just out of curiosity, why did you check out the book if Mom has it" (I was legitimately confused, wasn't trying to lead her)  She said that Mom won't let her bring it over to my house.  Ah, the light bulb goes on in my head, big shocker.  Talk about control and Mom thinking that everything belongs to her.  It's a $4 book, get over it.

The upside is I'm happy to see D9 being resourceful and checking the book out so she can circumvent Mom's rules and read it at both houses.  I actually ordered the same 1-5 series since I know she loves it, it arrives today so she will be happy to have the whole set here too.  If she wants to take it to Mom's house I will let her, but I'll remind her that if she wants it here to bring it back.

In the end, I see this issue with clothes and other belongings as just something that will cost me extra money over the years.  It's super annoying, but I refuse to play exPDw's game so I won't engage her in any of it.  If I ask about things, she gets to be in control.

[Associate of Daniel]

Can I pop in a put a slightly different perspective on items going back and forth?

I've found over the years that ds (now 13) likes to compartmentalise his life into Mum activities, Dad activities. My stuff at Mum's, my stuff at Dad's. Etc.

He doesn't like to mix the two. It's his way of dealing with our situation.

Maybe your daughter might feel the same?

Occasionally ds sneaks things to my place (unbeknownst to me and his uNPD dad) cos he really wants to use them here. But that's very rare.

I've found it best to have as little contact with my pds to avoid ds being caught up in yet more drama. So it's been necessary to keep what goes to their place to a bare minimum. Obviously clothing is unavoidable.  Thankfully though, only a handful of items have been deliberately "lost" over there (by the pds) in my case.

I've found the opposite of many people's struggles in fact.  Anything that I've touched is poison to the pds so it comes back. Usually. And they don't trust me with anything of "their's" so I don't usually see anything.

Anyway. It's heartbreaking for the kids and frustrating for us nons. But somehow we muddle through.

AOD

[pushit]

AoD - I don't know if you're referring to my daughter or not in your post.  But in my situation, I think she just wants the read the book and getting it from the library is a way she could still read it while at my house since she couldn't bring Mom's copy of it.

I have noticed the kids tend to expect different activities at our houses.  For the most part it makes sense to me as mom and dad are different people with different interests, so we tend to do different things with the kids.

I've actually noticed the same thing as you with clothing being returned.  Due to snow storms on exchange days I will send them to school with all their snow gear.  I was worried about it coming back, but in fact she has made it a point to give it all back to me.  They tend to show back up in the clothes they left my house in too.  She doesn't seem to want anything of "mine" to remain in her house.  That's fine with me as it makes things easier.  I don't have to try and get their snow gear back from her or buy them multiple jackets.

[Penny Lane]

We've had a similar issue with books and furthermore BM really discourages them from reading books or watching movies with us that she considers to be "hers." Which means everything that she likes - pretty much every major popular movie series or book has been claimed by her at some point. She even told them they couldn't see Star Wars with us one year. I mean, come on, a new Star Wars movie comes out pretty much every year! And it's not like she's the only person in the world who likes Star Wars, she doesn't own it.

As time has gone on she seems to have mostly stopped buying them any books at all or taking them to see any movies. So she's relaxed her grip on this stuff but it doesn't really seem to be a good outcome. Thank goodness for the school library so the kids can actually read at her house.

She does still do a thing where if we start watching a show with the kids she will watch it with them. So then we're behind and we can't watch it together anymore. We put our foot down on ONE show and said, look, you can watch it without us but at family time we're going to start again where we left off (and we had a good discussion of the etiquette of binge watching with other people!) But pretty much anything other than that becomes "her" shows with the kids. I'm actually not sure if she's trying to claim it or take the experience from us. I think the root of it might just be that they watch a ton of tv and she's always looking for a new show to watch with them, and we barely ever watch tv anyway. So I try to not be too uptight about it - we have our one show and we are slowly making our way through it, and we have good times with it.

[helpneeded]

I remember having this exact problem when my stepson was smaller. The issue ended when the kid became old enough to care about what he was wearing. Here's what I did:

1) Took all too-small, ugly and ratty clothes and put them in my donation basket or the trash (after all, our nice clothes weren't coming back, so her crappy clothes wouldn't go back either).
2) Accepted the fact that we were going to buy all the clothes he needed.

Soon all he had was nice stuff that fit. He started expressing opinions and preferences about his clothes. He liked certain types of pullovers, brands, athletic materials, etc. Then I noticed the mom started getting him nicer things (or, more probably, getting her boyfriends and family members to buy them for him as gifts), I guess to "keep up" since the difference was so stark. We found we didn't have to buy so much any more.

He's now an older teenager, and I was annoyed to discover that since he now has a job, she expects him to buy his sneakers and school clothes with the money he earns. Granted, sometimes he wants a special pair of sneakers that he doesn't really need, so that kind of thing makes sense. One the upside, the kid seems to take some pride in earning/saving/spending his own money. But I think it's a shame he feels like he has to buy basics that parents usually buy, especially when the parent has plenty of money. I keep this to myself though, and continue supplementing his wardrobe.

[Penny Lane]

I think #2 on your list is key. If we can really internalize "this is just the way it is and we are just going to have to eat the cost" there's no reason to stress about it. Of course easier said than done but DH and I have definitely gotten better at this over the years!

[Associate of Daniel]

I think you might be referring to the term "Radical Acceptance", Penny Lane.

It's a fabulous tool that we sadly have to use way too often with pds.

AOD