Discipline/Punishment

Started by logistics, November 01, 2018, 06:06:09 AM

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logistics

We all have different approaches to discipline a minor children. It causes me a lot of stress. Do PDs discipline harsher? I'd rather use rationalization and taking possessions away than force. I don't think spouse can understand this approach. Spouse says this doesn't work and I'm the cause of child's continued bad behavior. How does one discipline with a uPD in the house?

11JB68

Oh, logistics, of only I could have figured this one out! This was maybe my biggest source of stress and distress while ds (now21) was a child. Unfortunately, it continues, in a way,to this day. Updh (uOCPD? With some bpd and bpd traits) is all about his way or the highway, controlling, not physically abusive....but imo verbally/emotionally abusive. And if I disagree or don't get on board he accuses me of being against him, spoiling ds, taking sides, making him be the bad guy, wanting to be friends with ds, etc. Meanwhile ds is in most ways an exemplary son and Human being. Sorry I don't have an answer for you. Just empathy. I didn't start to come Out of the FOG until ds was 20...so too late for me to really do anything about it. I would refer you to the tool box...setting boundaries, maintain medium chill, protectingyour child(ren) when necessary, not jadeing, etc. IMO getting overly emotional about it and arguing does little to change the pd parents behavior and may just cause more stress and drama. When I was unaware of what I was dealing with (I.e. probable pd) I tried to use all I knew about parenting, including that parents should be on the same page, United, etc. I realize now why that was not working for me.

coyote

I've always like Adler and his idea of discipline; punishment vs. logical consequences. Here is a link that explains some of that in non technical terms: http://www.lifematters.com/step.asp Perhaps if you did some study first and modelling your H might catch on. Just a thought
How people treat you is their karma; how you react is yours.
Wayne Dyer

The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand?
Capt. Jack Sparrow

Choose not to be harmed and you won't feel harmed. Don't feel harmed and you haven't been. -Marcus Aurelius

notrightinthehead

My NPDhs punishment of minor bad behaviour  was so over the top in my opinion, that I tried not to involve him at all. I alone worked it out with the kids. The few times he involved himself because I could not get the naughty child away quickly enough, I ended up protecting the child from his wrath. Their little misdemeanours did not deserve the interrogation and put downs he meted out.
I can't hate my way into loving myself.

logistics

Thank you all. Not right is sort of what I've been doing. It's better if spouse is not around when the children misbehave and need discipline because it goes over the top with spouse around. Discipline ends up protection and any lessons are lost at the time. Spouses way is the only way in spouses opinion.

Findingmyvoice

Even things that we would normally use as punishment such as taking electronics away becomes a tool for control for the PD.
exPDw confiscated daughter's (12) phone because she didn't want to go for a walk.
its been 2 1/2 weeks now and she still won't return it or tell daughter when she will get it back or what she has to do.
exPD says that she has to say "yes" to everything before she gets it back.  For how long I'm not sure.

This was one of my fears about leaving. I can't protect my kids when they are with her or try to talk sense into PD.

MRound

This is such a hard one.  I too mostly handled issues the way notright did,  but heard a lot about the bad things kids did and how those things should be fixed (mostly be me, apparently).  I mostly tune it out, or say " I think this is between you and the kid". This only works after kid is old enough to stand up for himself, and H mostly just complains or talks incessantly about bad things he imagines (fears) they are doing.  But when they were younger he hit them a few times (a spank or a slap, no physical injury), and I will always regret not standing up to him on that (as well as a few other things I think he would count as discipline).  I recently mentioned that I felt bad that I once gave my eldest a little swat on his bum, and H apparently does not remember ever hitting the kids.  If I had it to do over, I definitely would have drawn a line in the sand.  We are told that parents shouldn't disagree about discipline in front of kids, but I think that can only hold when parents have an agreement about discipline that they both can adhere to. 

Cascade

Yes, I think PD's punish harsher, and not only harsher but the punishment doesn't always fit the crime, it is based on their mood. I did like some of the others mentioned, and tried to handle things on my own without involving my husband. They also over-react to their children's behaviour. Once when our boys were teens, they got into a yelling match, one was outside our house and one was inside, so the neighbours must have heard. My husband told me that our children might get taken away by social services, because they weren't getting along, or we might have to put one in foster care! My husband was very much like in the quote below.
QuoteUpdh (uOCPD? With some bpd and bpd traits) is all about his way or the highway, controlling, not physically abusive....but imo verbally/emotionally abusive. And if I disagree or don't get on board he accuses me of being against him

11JB68

Also with my uPDh I find that the things he gets mad about are really all about him. He projects,a lot!!

capybara

 :yeahthat:

This is such a source of stress for me too! I definitely agree with the other posters that uBPD punish more severely and less consistently. I feel like DH is scapegoating our middle child which is very difficult.  DH spanked the kid in the past and I really regret not taking the kids and leaving (at least temporarily) over that.

Now I am just trying to maintain and improve my relationship with the kid, who is 12, and also to support the kid in healthy relationships outside the home. If DH is berating the kid and it is not actually scary I try to tune it out. That sounds awful! I'm sorry not to have better advice, I am just feeling my way through this.

Mitchy

YES!!!!!! My PDH is over the top when it comes to punishment (with him there is NO discipline, just straight punishment). Others have said, and I see it in my home as well, that there is quite a bit of projection an dependence on their mood at the time. I've always believed in consequences fitting the bad behavior; PDH? He likes to react before having the full picture. Also, not sure if others see this, but seems pretty common in our home that one child gets the brunt of the abuse (yes, I view it solely as abusive behavior) and the other gets away with just about everything. Adding insult to injury the child getting all of the anger and abuse directed at them also came out as transgendered. So...DC is not only dealing with all of that (have been ordered not to explore any treatment for transition by PDH because he believes is it morally wrong) but also an emotionally abusive father. It is beyond my comprehension how to discipline a child under these circumstances and like others, I find myself being the negotiator and at times smoothing things over a bit more than they should be.  :stars:

sevenyears

My stbxh uocpd gets angry/yells, criticizes and punishes by taking away tv priviledges or desserts. Taking away tv and sweets are reasonable - the problem with my uocdp stbxh is that he doesn't understand the difference between discipline and punishment. He uses punishment as a means of control. He regularly gets angry and  yells - even for minor infractions. And, he sometimes provokes incidents and then punishes DD7, while letting DS3 get away with almost everything. And, yes, like others, I was often the negotiator and intervened when he went over the top. Because I don't punish with regularity and anger, he believes that I am a push over, which couldn't be further from the truth. 

11JB68

Seven years, I get the same thing...uOCPDh tells me I'm too easy on ds

pushit

Interesting subject for me, you all hit on a lot of things that happen in my house.  It's nearly impossible to have a teaching moment with the kids when uPDw is around, because she immediately escalates to anger over the slightest infraction.  I feel like the house is so much more calm and stable when she's not there, the kids know my boundaries and know I'll be consistent with my message.

Her discipline for the kids is rarely consistent.  I can see the confusion in the kids now as they are starting to act out against her.  It could be anything - a room being messy, kids not doing the "right" activity at any given time, not enjoying piano practice while mom stands behind you with her arms crossed, and she'll start yelling at them.  She does all sorts of random things like gets mad at me for letting them watch a movie (I will allow this after they have homework and chores done) but then the next night she'll start a movie for them when it's time to go to bed, and no one has done their homework.  Then the kids get upset when she realizes how late it is, is frantically trying to get them to bed and shuts the movie off.  I don't dare say anything because I'll become the target for a circular argument/shouting match about how I don't help with the kids.  It's so confusing for everyone though.

I read about the concept of "parallel parenting" not long ago.  It was presented as an option when co-parenting is impossible after a divorce from a PD.  Basically parent the way you feel is right when the other parent isn't around, because that's all you can control.  This is pretty much what I practice even though we're still married.  I feel like I just need to have faith that as the  kids get older they will naturally gravitate to the calm and stable parent, and not be too messed up by her inconsistency and controlling behavior.

Mary

Quote from: pushit on March 05, 2019, 03:22:01 PM
I read about the concept of "parallel parenting" not long ago.  It was presented as an option when co-parenting is impossible after a divorce from a PD.  Basically parent the way you feel is right when the other parent isn't around, because that's all you can control. "

I agree with pushit on this. It's what kids experience all the time at school--some teachers are lenient, some strict, some grumpy, and some are joyful. Kids learn to adapt to the rules of the different classrooms. So I train my children in uPDh's absence. I try not to interfere too much when he is overbearing with them, but also do what I can to distract them after the episode by playing a game with them, shooting some baskets, showing love and acceptance. I have trained them that if his instructions conflict with mine, they should follow his instructions in his presence. When he's gone, it's my domain. I have found that he will adopt some of my methods that he can see are working. For example, I make them do a "morning chore pack". So sometimes he will tell them to go do their morning chore pack. Teens are harder.
Hope this helps,
Mary
For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. (Isaiah 54:5)