Why don't all churches have a way "out" of toxic marriages?

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Call Me Cordelia

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Re: Why don't all churches have a way "out" of toxic marriages?
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2018, 11:35:46 AM »
DJCleo, I think it's perfectly legitimate to put off going through the annulment process until such time as a person thinks they might want to remarry in the Church, or until they feel it would be more healing than simply retraumatizing, for all the reasons you said. As openskyblue rightly points out, there's nothing wrong with simply being divorced. And there are many, many reasons to protest how the annulment process affects real people. There is no timeline.

Jesus' own words against the Pharisees tying up heavy burdens for the people are validating for sure. And when asked WWJD, flipping tables is an option.  ;) As for why one would submit to such a thing at all, well that is an individual answer but if we believe in marriage as a sacrament, and that Jesus Christ really did establish the Catholic Church and her authority is in fact legitimate, and the Eucharist is truly the Body and Blood of Christ, well I would hope that people would not give up on that. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak. It is very hard. St. Catherine of Sienna and St. Teresa of Avila are hugely comforting to me in dealing with issues of abuse of authority. They were faithful and still prevailed. And they didn't mince words, with the hierarchy or with Jesus either! I'm just about to get into Sigrid Undset's biography of St. Catherine, which comes highly recommended.

There is no easy answer. I do pray for peace for you and your sister and thank you for sharing. I have my own issues to work through with priests enabling my own abusers, so your vulnerability here was very helpful to me.  :hug:

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DJCleo

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Re: Why don't all churches have a way "out" of toxic marriages?
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2018, 10:48:35 PM »
DJCleo, I think it's perfectly legitimate to put off going through the annulment process until such time as a person thinks they might want to remarry in the Church, or until they feel it would be more healing than simply retraumatizing, for all the reasons you said. As openskyblue rightly points out, there's nothing wrong with simply being divorced. And there are many, many reasons to protest how the annulment process affects real people. There is no timeline.

Jesus' own words against the Pharisees tying up heavy burdens for the people are validating for sure. And when asked WWJD, flipping tables is an option.  ;) As for why one would submit to such a thing at all, well that is an individual answer but if we believe in marriage as a sacrament, and that Jesus Christ really did establish the Catholic Church and her authority is in fact legitimate, and the Eucharist is truly the Body and Blood of Christ, well I would hope that people would not give up on that. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak. It is very hard. St. Catherine of Sienna and St. Teresa of Avila are hugely comforting to me in dealing with issues of abuse of authority. They were faithful and still prevailed. And they didn't mince words, with the hierarchy or with Jesus either! I'm just about to get into Sigrid Undset's biography of St. Catherine, which comes highly recommended.

There is no easy answer. I do pray for peace for you and your sister and thank you for sharing. I have my own issues to work through with priests enabling my own abusers, so your vulnerability here was very helpful to me.  :hug:


Hereís the thing. My sister already remarried civilly only. I donít blame her. I just donít see a way for her to remarry in the Catholic Church and I honestly am understanding why she doesnít even try further with the annulment.

Like, why would you?

Insert either unrealistic or unreasonable amount of defense of Catholic Church that doesnít really acknowledge the issue enough OR realize that the church just ainít perfect because people handle how it operates. There will be those who defend the church until forever just because they canít acknowledge that something might be wrong and the Catholic Church canít be that type of wrong. How could you say that as a Catholic, DJCleo?

Iím glad if this thread brought any ounce of peace to you Call me Cordelia. Iím not sure it has for me. I think I just noticed that church is great, but equally horrible at times, and i gotta get back to acceptance because i canít change it, canít control it, and canít fix it, just like the fact that my sisterís ex was a psychopath and truly without empathy who only wanted to own her.



Well, I said it. The Catholic Church is an institution that humans run. God is good, and I feel His presence usually in mass, but Iíve felt his presence other places and in other congregations.

So. Yeah. I just need to let it go like I should have from day one. This happens occasionally where I go down the rabbit hole anyway.

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Call Me Cordelia

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Re: Why don't all churches have a way "out" of toxic marriages?
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2018, 11:13:29 PM »
I'm sorry, I completely missed that she was already remarried civilly. I didn't mean to guilt-trip you or your sister.

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DJCleo

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Re: Why don't all churches have a way "out" of toxic marriages?
« Reply #43 on: December 19, 2018, 12:02:13 AM »
I'm sorry, I completely missed that she was already remarried civilly. I didn't mean to guilt-trip you or your sister.

Iím not sure I said that she had remarried civilly. Either way, itís easy to miss details. No worries about that. Thank you for the kind thoughts though and for acknowledging that us Catholics are prone to guilt trips!  ;D

Really though, thank you. Itís just hard not to have a guilt trip about not encouraging her to do everything to be ďright with the churchĒ junk.

Maybe this is just how psychopaths work. She got away and is in good health and recovered mostly from the abuse although sheís got to let certain things go. Thatís a big deal for her. We should rejoice in that, that my sister is alive and well instead of stuck with that abusive, callous person.

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DJCleo

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Re: Why don't all churches have a way "out" of toxic marriages?
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2018, 12:20:20 AM »
Especially for Call me Cordelia, Iím not sure what you were referring to with your own pain, but look up the story of Rahab.

Rahab was disgraced abdvwas not given the opportunity to fulfill her cultural duty of providing an heir to her late husbandís property, etc. First her brother-in-law stood in her way, then her other brother-in-law and then her father-in-law. They didnít want her to have offspring to keep her husbandís line going. It was their sacred duty to help her. Now, modern westerners would think thatís weird.

But her story is usually lost. She eventually pretended to be a prostitute in order to fulfill her duty. The father-in-law falls for the ruse although he could have had Rahab and helped her provide an heir.

Sooooooooo. Thatís the parable. My sister is actually a righteous woman because sheís a wonderful person. Not because of the rules.

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Mary

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Re: Why don't all churches have a way "out" of toxic marriages?
« Reply #45 on: December 23, 2018, 01:18:36 AM »
In my experience, it's really hard to let go of the church rules we grew up with, especially if we had a good church experience growing up.  It gets very easy to confuse "God" with "church culture". It's hard to come to terms with faults in the system.

Never-the-less, your sister's faith is between her and God. If she feels certain religious practices like communion to be important/necessary, there are any number of denominations that practice open communion that would allow her to slip in for this, no strings attached. IMO, It's just that simple. No need to take on the religious leaders, or to feel guilty about stepping out of bounds of a system that cannot/will not accommodate her situation.

Mary




For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. (Isaiah 54:5)