I don't care...

[Pepin]

Received news that PDmil is having some health issues...getting a barrage of tests done, CT scan, MRI, IV meds, overnight stay for observation, etc.  While I am bummed for her having to undergo all these tests, I cannot help but wonder what is really going on.  Is she ramping up something now to thwart our summer plans  -- that I seriously hope DH has been quiet about -- or is it finally the time when something is happening that would dictate a new path for her or even expose her?  On the other hand, given her symptoms I personally think it is nothing more than sitting on the couch all day dozing off intermittently.   

A while back she slipped in her home and caused a back injury.  She has refused to stick with any sort of pain or physical therapy regimen yet brings up her back pain all the time.  She is unable to call her MD, doesn't know how.  She can barely walk a block and her movement during the day likely consists of trips to the kitchen and bathroom and then her bedroom at the end of the day.  There are occasional errands that she gets picked up for and she does walk around stores I assume to get what she needs...

It would seem to me that a slip and fall in one's home at the age of 80 would mean thinking hard about giving up that home and moving to AL.  But she says no of course...so that she can continue to be worried about and checked on.   

I am in a weird state of mind where I am having trouble feeling compassion for PDmil.  After all, what she is going through is all her own doing.  Reap what you sow.     I get it that her life was hard at times....but life is hard for many.  The difference is that I don't hold anyone accountable for what happened to me.  What happened, happened and there is no way to undo it.  Learn and move on.  Stop rolling around in it.  But other family members (including DH) feel that it is ok for her to operate from a place of waifiness and because she is the matriarch.  Doesn't matter how helpless she is or what she can or cannot do for herself, she still has to be respected.   Loyalty before behavior?  I just cannot get on board with this.    

As someone that married into the family, I am certain that all the other spouses that married into the family feel the same way as me.  We are invisible and unwelcome.      The grandchildren, with the exception of the oldest that male that carried on the family name, are insignificant.  I am continually blown away by DH and his call to loyalty to a woman that behaves from a place of selfishness -- yet disguises it in the form of "for the good of all" and her past was hard (boo hoo!).    

Why it is that someone's pain is rated higher than anyone else's is beyond me -- like it is a contest? 

I just have no empathy for her and if things continue to worsen for her, how will I be able to convey to DH that I care?  Because I don't. 

[Pepin]

Some news came in this afternoon that PDmil suffered a mini stroke.  She is staying overnight for observation at the hospital.  It is too soon to know what this all means...When DH and I were texting he didn't really display any sort of emotion that I could pick up on. 

He was rather neutral and said: I would give her about 5 years.



Depending on what happens in the next 24 hours I guess will dictate how DH and his siblings will go forward.  It seems plausible that PDmil's next move would be into AL.  And I feel badly about it....and I know PDmil will be upset -- unless she really isn't cognitive to know enough about what happened to her.  Her own mother had a stroke and did not fair well...ended up being paralyzed and moved into a care facility.  It was an awful place....but she had no money.  The State claimed half of her home to pay the medical bills.  PDmil and her siblings did not turn to their bank accounts to have their mother placed in a nicer place.  *sigh*  Thankfully PDmil has enough money to be placed in a nicer place if that is what happens next.   

It is strange but I feel a huge weight lifted off my shoulders today with this news.  I have not felt this way in a long time and I really don't know what to do with this feeling.  Just have to wait and see what happens tomorrow.

[SunnyMeadow]

Thankfully your MIL has money to go into a decent AL place if and when needed!  What a relief.

I'm glad you feel a weight is lifted off your shoulders Pepin.  I understand not feeling empathy for her. I have a waify helpless, selfish matriarch too. She thinks everyone should call her, and put her above others at all times. I don't feel compassion for my PD mom, in fact I think it'll be difficult to feel much sadness when she finally passes. I think it's going to feel like freedom.

I wouldn't worry about conveying to your dH that you care when you actually don't. Maybe the less said the better in that case? If I didn't feel I could share that with my DH I just wouldn't say anything along those lines to him.

[daughter]

I'd be very cautious about being drafted as "home health-care provider", because often the pd-disordered parent expects their adult-children (and daughters-in-law) to provide in-home health-care alternative to sensible-choice of assisted-living or nursing-home care.  Does DH know that's a NO-GO?  That you're not available to provide assistance on these matters?

And I flag this because this situation happened to a good friend of mine, who has an imperious MIL who never failed to needle her, whose DH and BIL #2 thought she was "best equipped" to address MIL's issues, to because she was already doing same for her own impaired mother and brothers.  My friend spent several tense months, navigating between her existing FOO Family obligations and the incessant pressure from DH and BIL #2 to assume added responsibility for MIL and a profoundly-disabled BIL #1.  Ultimately she prevailed, but there were several very serious arguments that caused marital strife.

[StayWithMe]

I honestly don't see myself taking care of someone who disprespected me.

And I think we all need to be very careful here.  If there is a known negative history between parent an child (in law), the parent easily can make accusations against the carer that to other people would sound credible given the back ground that they know.

[Pepin]

No worries on my end -- I absolutely will NOT be involved in any type of care for PDmil.  I am concerned though that DH might have to respond more to her beck and call.  I am also worried that guilt is going to creep in and dictate how DH behaves.  When his father passed away, DH felt very guilty for his mother and entirely skipped over any grieving he might need to do.  He even admitted it to me one day out of the blue saying: I haven't even grieved for my Dad yet.  And before I could stop myself the words came right out of my mouth: that's because you have been carrying your mother's grief.

DH has this problem where he genuinely thinks that others should have what he has even if they didn't think of it or don't want it.  Example: we go out and explore, eat out, travel, etc. and it pains him that his own mother has no zeal for that.  He feels bad that she sits at home all day, with no friends or anything to do -- without understanding that it is OF HER OWN DOING. 

Anyway, I know I am rambling.  PDmil gets discharged today and is being sent home with the advice to take more aspirin.  I am surprised her MD isn't pushing for her to move to AL.  Then again her MD is a joke....and it is interesting that as much as DH has complained about the MD, his sister who is in charge of PDmil's health has done nothing about finding a better MD.  I wonder what that says...

[Psuedonym]

Hey Pepin,

Your description of your husband's experience sounds so much like my own, down to not being able to grieve himself when his dad died. Unfortunately, when you've been brainwashed all your life that you're responsible for your parents feelings and it's your job to fix it, its really tough to shake. I still find myself feeling guilty for enjoying myself/being happy sometimes. It makes no sense on a rational level, I know. I don't have a lot of advise for you here, just that I empathize with your situation.

Hugs!

[WomanInterrupted]

Now that your MIL is going home, I'd take the opportunity to have a talk with your DH:

1.  She is NEVER moving  in and having any of you care for her.

Not even for a day or two - because you'll probably never be rid of her!   

2.  If she needs help at home, she has to hire *aides* and not rely on your DH who *is not qualified to care for her.*

3.  If she's having trouble at home, she needs to rely on outside help (Merry Maids, Meals on Wheels, the Senior Van, having her groceries and prescriptions delivered) OR consider an independent living facility or AL.

4.  If she has any "health scares" or "emergencies" she needs to *call an ambulance.*

5.  If your MIL is milking problems (fakeritis) or making mountains out of molehills, DH needs to *speak to her doctor* - or to his sister, who oversees  MIL's medical care. 

Please allow me to take the drama and mystery out of her mini-stroke, aka TIA (transient ischemic attack).     

DH's grandfather had dozens of them, over the years, and to the best of our knowledge, only had deficits closer to the end of his life, but they weren't major, and mostly things you'd associate with being an 80-something-year-old alcoholic, who chain smoked 4+ packs of unfiltered cigarettes a day.   

But he was a nice man, so everybody left him to do his thing, except for unNPD MIL, but *that* is a story for another day!   

If your MIL claims she's having all kinds of problems from her mini-stroke, your DH needs to refer her back to her *doctor* and *stay out of it.*   

Chances are she'll try milking it for attention and sympathy, when there's probably nothing wrong with her.

I really do wish there was a pill or supplement we could give our FOGged-up loved ones to help them  *see* what's really going on, and that if she's lonely, bored and old, well, that's her *choice* and others do not live to serve or entertain her.

Alas, there isn't, and we have to sometimes, after a talk like the one I suggest you have with DH, step *completely* out of it and REFUSE to do a single thing to be helpful.   

No picking up her dry cleaning, scripts, or picking up stuff for her, while you're at the grocery store - let it fall on your DH, if he chooses to get sucked into the, "My poooooooor old mother!" vortex of insanity.   

He doesn't *have* to, when outside help is plentiful and easily available.   

Hell, every other commercial in this area is about how to get help for your elderly loved ones, from caregivers, to having yourself certified by Medicaid as a caregiver so you can be paid to help dear old mom or dad, independent living facilities, assisted living - you name it, and they have a commercial telling you where and how to get assistance. 

Not that PDs seem to want outside assistance - I think it's just easier for them to think their Chosen Caregiver will do every little thing they want, and they can still let their freak flags fly.   

I think that's a big part of why they're so adamant only *family* or certain family members (IME, the Scapegoat) care for them - they don't have to behave like normal people!   

I hope your DH doesn't get sucked down the never-ending rabbit hole of being her caregiver, but if he does, I strongly urge you to *stay out of it* and be completely unhelpful.   

Some people have to run themselves ragged before they figure out it's not a sustainable situation, and other arrangements must be made.

I hope he's not one of them, but you never can tell what's going to happen, until it's happening.

Sometimes you just have to let situations come to an organic epic fail before people see reason and the FOG is lifted.   

[HotCocoa]

No worries on my end -- I absolutely will NOT be involved in any type of care for PDmil.  I am concerned though that DH might have to respond more to her beck and call.  I am also worried that guilt is going to creep in and dictate how DH behaves.  When his father passed away, DH felt very guilty for his mother and entirely skipped over any grieving he might need to do.  He even admitted it to me one day out of the blue saying: I haven't even grieved for my Dad yet.  And before I could stop myself the words came right out of my mouth: that's because you have been carrying your mother's grief.

DH has this problem where he genuinely thinks that others should have what he has even if they didn't think of it or don't want it.  Example: we go out and explore, eat out, travel, etc. and it pains him that his own mother has no zeal for that.  He feels bad that she sits at home all day, with no friends or anything to do -- without understanding that it is OF HER OWN DOING. 

Anyway, I know I am rambling.  PDmil gets discharged today and is being sent home with the advice to take more aspirin.  I am surprised her MD isn't pushing for her to move to AL.  Then again her MD is a joke....and it is interesting that as much as DH has complained about the MD, his sister who is in charge of PDmil's health has done nothing about finding a better MD.  I wonder what that says...

If MIL was bad enough, the dr. would've put her into a SNF for rehab until she was able to return home.  Dr's don't tell their patients to move into AL.  That is not their job.  If MIL is returning home with just aspirin, then she's well enough to go home and resume her life AND take care of herself and her needs.   
I also wouldn't push for her to find a new MD, then she'll have to make all kinds of appointments to get to know him, and
expect DH to start carting her off to someone new who doesn't understand her complex health issues....  
Let her stay with the MD she has.  Don't make waves there or that's a really slippery slope that only leads downhill.  Good luck.

[Andeza]

I just have no empathy for her and if things continue to worsen for her, how will I be able to convey to DH that I care?  Because I don't.

Then don't. I wouldn't try to convince my DH that I felt a certain way if I didn't because he knows me too well and he'd see through it in a heartbeat. You can empathize with his position, if you want to, whilst feeling no empathy for your MIL. You don't have to specifically state this to him unless you feel it is a boundary he needs to be made aware of, or if it comes up for some reason. Not knowing your marital circumstances, you'll know best how to address it if your DH does notice something odd and inquires about it.

So glad you've established your no care taking boundary already! Going into difficult situations with that already in place will save you some headaches. 

[Moon]

If you have no empathy for her, then you don't.  That's not something you need to convey to your DH.  What you can convey is that you are upset for him, that is if you are.

I know if my MIL has health problems or the day she passes I won't feel anything.  She has been so nasty to me that I know I simply won't be affected.  However I know Dh will be very upset, so I will be upset for him.  I will do things to help him grieve.

I'm glad you won't be assisting her at home.  That's the thing with these MIL's they show you relentlessly that you are unwelcome and not family and then when they suddenly get old and need help, they think it's ok for you to be there and help them.  My MIL was the same, she hasn't welcomed me at all and that's ok but I won't be welcomed later on when she's older and needs help.  I will help DH at home but I won't help DH with her.

I think it's good to have boundaries otherwise you'll resent it later on.

[Pepin]

Thanks for the encouragement everyone...though sadly I feel as though the weight on my shoulders that was lifted has returned.  Maybe I spoke too soon...  Talked with DH last night and he told me that PDmil is much better at home and her medication regimen has been changed.  He then went on to rant about the MD being not good enough and why were they still PDmil's MD?  I reminded him that it was his sister's job to find a new MD.

The conversation about finding PDmil a new MD has been going on for years now.  I don't think it is because DH's sister is lazy...I think it is because she has had enough.  As HotCocoa mentioned, starting with a new MD would require spending more time getting acquainted and re explaining everything.  PDmil herself is unable to do this because after living here in the US for 50+ years has not mastered the English language nor is she technologically literate.  She has to be accompanied to all visits with DH's sister as a translator. 

While I would love it if PDmil could enlist outside help, her culture would frown upon it...nor could she phone up and ask for help on her own.  Having known her since the mid 90s, I really feel that she has sealed the deal by having her children care for her every need until her end...of course only 2 are around to do it while the other 2 live far away. 

If I have any positive take away from all of this it is not to be like her.  As a female I understand the importance of being self sufficient regardless of the hand I was dealt in my past.  If I really wanted to I could just give up and curl up into a ball and whither away into nothing.  But how would that be fair to DH or my children?  It would be so hard on them and mean.  It would be horribly selfish.  And that's the thing....these PDs act solely from a place of selfishness....every single one of them....narrow minded and focused on just themselves, causing mass destruction with anyone they cross paths with.  Enablers like my husband continue to let her get away with it because that it how he was raised -- and it has been challenging for him to see the situation for what it really is.

DH is out of town at the moment and I am certain he will rush to PDmil's side as soon as he returns...I am already sick to my stomach about the possibility of having to tag along; if I didn't it would likely be taken as rude....though I may have some wiggle room when I tell him that it is best that he go alone so they can catch up in private and enjoy each other's company.  Though a holiday is coming up soon that would require us all to meet for dinner out.... and I really don't want to go.  The only way to get out of it is literally to get sick....I think I will stop washing my hands after running errands and see what happens. 

[Kiki81]

One problem with locating a different "MD" for your mom at her age is that docs typically have a small percentage of their practice in Medicare and these are patients they've seen for years (not new). Practices don't voluntarily take on new patients who are on Medicare as they can point to the existing patients they have on Medicare already and be seen as assuming their fair share of the financial burden from it. My friend, 70 years old, has been a patient at her internists group since she was 55---at 70, if she needs an appointment she has her choice of a designated slot, of which there are few. I plan to move when my DH retires in 2 years and my first priority is to immediately get in to a medical practice well before age 65.

Btw, if docs evaluate a patient and find they are incapable of the basic daily activities of living, they make the appropriate referrals prior to release. If your mom was released with a treatment plan for adding aspirin to her medication regimen, she passed her evaluation of ADLs.

[Pepin]

PDmil returned to the ER due to more issues.  They ran tests, found nothing and sent her back home.  One of DH's older siblings flew into town for a couple of nights and it seems that PDmil is just fine.  Hmm.  Seems a little like the boy that cried wolf scenario.  DH of course being out of town, is unsettled and has all these ideas now about wiring inside surveillance so he and his siblings can keep an eye on PDmil during the day. 

We have plans to take a family vacation soon and are also planning for summer and will be gone for some time.  I really hope that PDmil is not trying to thwart our much needed breaks.  DH already travels a lot for work and therefore is unable to visit with mommy dearest on the weekends -- which is fine with me since I don't have to feel guilty about not always going with him...Will see what happens when DH returns.  On another note.....is it weird that DH, a man in his 50s, stills calls his mother mommy?  It makes me cringe.       

[WomanInterrupted]

Wiring in surveillance cameras?

Normally, I'd think, "um...no...that's going WAY too far..." - but in this case, I think it's a *great* idea that might open your DH's eyes to the fact that your MIL is full of crapola. 

At first, she might behave for the cameras, but as time goes by, she'll probably start performing for them.   

Most people would just get Life Alert, but if she's anything like unNPD Ray, she'll treat it like a shiny new toy, but won't actually use the thing.   

Please stress to your DH *not* to tell "mommy" (YES, THAT'S CREEPY!    ) anything about your vacation plans.  Not a peep.  You could even warn him that she'll probably have some kind of "health emergency" right before you're supposed to leave - and I suspect you'll be right.

I couldn't tell unBPD Didi *anything* about our lives or DH's travel schedule because "suddenly" the day he left, she'd have a health emergency and expect me to drop everything to take care of her, take her to the ER or visit her in the hospital for her chronic makeitupitis.   

The difference between me and your DH is I could see what was really going on, and your DH is worried about his poor mommy.  (I cannot stress how creepy that really is!   )

Hopefully, if he does have cameras installed, he'll start to see what you've known all along - she's a perpetual victim, of her own making, and now she's an attention-seeking victim who *needs an audience and slaves to do her every bidding.*

From my own experience, when they start going down the constant medical problems road, it's time to fasten your seat belt and *stay in the shark cage, with your hands and feet inside* - things are about to get *evil.*

[Pepin]

PDmil did have one camera in her living room before and DH would check on her.  She spent a lot of time on the couch watching TV and dozing.  Personally I think the Life Alert device would be great but PDmil would not use it since she has to have someone with her at all times for any sort of medical appt.  She decided to stop speaking English years ago so therefore her children have to be at her beck and call.  It is a sad scenario in my opinion.  DH and his sister are trapped while their other two siblings get to live their lives without much interruption. 

What I find fascinating is that when DH hears from his friends the difficulty they are going through with their parents health, DH is firm about what they should do.  He has often said: if my mother acted that way (waify, needy, whiney, etc.) she would find herself placed in AL immediately.   

Yet she already IS behaving that way and has been for a long time.  Her frequency might not be as often but when looked at over time it is significant. 

It always seems different when it is your own parent. 

[Pepin]

Small update.  PDmil has started physiotherapy at her home and that also includes a translator.  Seems that she is unhappy about this arrangement as she would rather sit on the couch.  Yet she is complaining that she is bored and has nothing to do.  She doesn't go out at the moment and everyone is doing everything for her.  Also, having a translator means that other family members don't technically have to be by PDmil's side to translate.  Her refusal to speak english is not paying off this time.  DH told me he was surprised that out metro area offers a translator and actually I think that translating services have been offered for quite a long time...it is just that PDmil doesn't want that.  She wants to pull other family members away from what they are doing to attend to her instead.     I just cannot comprehend why people like her behave this way -- to think that her life is any more important than anyone else's?  It is just astounding to me that she has gotten away with the way that she is for so long.     Looking forward for her truth to start to start coming out at last.

[Unvitation to Drama]

Thanks for the encouragement everyone...though sadly I feel as though the weight on my shoulders that was lifted has returned.  Maybe I spoke too soon...  Talked with DH last night and he told me that PDmil is much better at home and her medication regimen has been changed.  He then went on to rant about the MD being not good enough and why were they still PDmil's MD?  I reminded him that it was his sister's job to find a new MD.

The conversation about finding PDmil a new MD has been going on for years now.  I don't think it is because DH's sister is lazy...I think it is because she has had enough.  As HotCocoa mentioned, starting with a new MD would require spending more time getting acquainted and re explaining everything.  PDmil herself is unable to do this because after living here in the US for 50+ years has not mastered the English language nor is she technologically literate.  She has to be accompanied to all visits with DH's sister as a translator. 

While I would love it if PDmil could enlist outside help, her culture would frown upon it...nor could she phone up and ask for help on her own.  Having known her since the mid 90s, I really feel that she has sealed the deal by having her children care for her every need until her end...of course only 2 are around to do it while the other 2 live far away. 

If I have any positive take away from all of this it is not to be like her.  As a female I understand the importance of being self sufficient regardless of the hand I was dealt in my past.  If I really wanted to I could just give up and curl up into a ball and whither away into nothing.  But how would that be fair to DH or my children?  It would be so hard on them and mean.  It would be horribly selfish.  And that's the thing....these PDs act solely from a place of selfishness....every single one of them....narrow minded and focused on just themselves, causing mass destruction with anyone they cross paths with.  Enablers like my husband continue to let her get away with it because that it how he was raised -- and it has been challenging for him to see the situation for what it really is.

DH is out of town at the moment and I am certain he will rush to PDmil's side as soon as he returns...I am already sick to my stomach about the possibility of having to tag along; if I didn't it would likely be taken as rude....though I may have some wiggle room when I tell him that it is best that he go alone so they can catch up in private and enjoy each other's company.  Though a holiday is coming up soon that would require us all to meet for dinner out.... and I really don't want to go.  The only way to get out of it is literally to get sick....I think I will stop washing my hands after running errands and see what happens.

I didn't read through the entire thread so perhaps it has been mentioned....but, if you are in the US, the doctor's office is required by law to provide a medical translator. In fact, most healthcare professionals prefer it because family members have a tendency to not quite translate as the doctor would like them to....or sort of "soften the blow" when things get awkward. If they don't have a physical person there to translate, then there is an easy to use telephone system. From an healthcare office perspective, there is zero obligation for the sister to be the built in translator. AT. ALL. (in the United States)

[Pepin]

I didn't read through the entire thread so perhaps it has been mentioned....but, if you are in the US, the doctor's office is required by law to provide a medical translator. In fact, most healthcare professionals prefer it because family members have a tendency to not quite translate as the doctor would like them to....or sort of "soften the blow" when things get awkward. If they don't have a physical person there to translate, then there is an easy to use telephone system. From a healthcare office perspective, there is zero obligation for the sister to be the built in translator. AT. ALL. (in the United States)

This is fascinating/confusing -- and in all the years I have known PDmil, how is it that a translator was not present for her appointments?  Why is it when FIL was in the hospital with cancer was there no one there to speak to him -- though his English was very good?  When it appeared that FIL was not making any progress with his diagnosis and likely would not be returning home, PDmil decided that she had enough and did not want to stay at the hospital anymore by his side.  DH was asked to fill in...and he really should not have had to stay overnight...and seen some of what he did...especially the sun downing episodes.    DH and his sister's command of their parents native language is not deep...sometimes they have to insert English words when they don't know.  I think a translator would have been a huge help.  I need to ask DH about this.

[Alexmom]

I can really relate to what you are going through Pepin.  My MIL was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, and when she was diagnosed my relationship with her was not good.  I was VLC with her and FIL due to years of dealing with their ridiculous behavior and behavior stemming from resentment my MIL had for DH leaving her to marry me. (when she was diagnosed DH and I had been married 19 years).   I had grown to dislike my MIL and was down to just seeing her twice a year.  A year after she was diagnosed I ended up going NC with her due to what was an admission on her part that she interfered and meddled in my marriage in an effort to "win DH back" and believed he should have been loyal to her first. 

During her 4 year illness she was in and out of the hospital and was cared for by FIL.  My DH and his DB also helped in her care.  She stayed at home, said 'No' to hospice and suffered a great deal as a result.  She was bedridden the last 2 years of her illness with bed sores, bed bugs and chronic infections.   She ended up dying of sepsis.

I made it clear to DH at the onset of her illness that I would not be involved with her care.  I couldn't help a woman who had set out to interfere with my marriage, had been disrespectful to me (and DH although the FOG in his brain prevents him from seeing this clearly) and who had been the source of so much stress in my life.  I did tell DH that I would take care of the home responsibilities and our kids while he assisted with the care of his mom.  However, the time DH spent at his parent's home helping out had to be agreed upon every month as I knew if my IL's had it their way, DH would have moved back into their home.

This decision I made to not involve myself with my MIL's care did not go over well with the extended IL family.  They vocalized to my DH that I was expected to be up at my MIL's bedside every weekend caring for her.   However, the only opinion that mattered besides my own was my DH's, so I tuned these people out and actually didn't see any of them until my MIL's funeral which I went to as a support to DH and our kids.    I don't plan to see them anytime soon again.   

I learned from all of this that defining my responsibilities - a spouse to DH, mom to my kids, professional, person who took care of my home, dog - was helpful then communicating to DH that taking care of his mom wasn't part of my responsibilities then just being there to listen to DH about the stress/sadness of watching his mom's slow and agonizing decline and staying focused on my responsibilities was the best course of action to take and helped get me through this stressful time.