What's the difference between NC and the silent treatment, for you?

[RavenLady]

I told my uNPDF last month that I didn't want to interact with him for awhile. I'd reached that point where his invalidation and withholding and discounting and total empathy failures were just too much. A disaster had impacted my entire FOO and, while I offered and provided emotional support to him and other family members, my parents had none to extend to me. There was zero reciprocity. (uBPDM unhelpfully encouraged me to offer him narcissistic supply instead. I declined.) My invitation to him to correct my interpretation of his behavior as unloving -- that he had no love to give in the aftermath of the disaster -- was harshly rebuffed. Emotional labor is beneath him and he has better things to do than deal with my feelings and ideas. I couldn't think of a way forward that wouldn't amplify my pain, so I said g'bye for now.

(I'm leaving out details as I often do here because I'm so afraid uNPDF or uBPDM will find this forum and search keywords. I'm not sure how much of this fear of mine is legitimate, but in trying to manage my anxiety I'm going to not risk it for now. It's a lifelong fear. Just yesterday, I found a diary I'd started when I was 7 years old. Even though it had a lock, I kept starting to write down what my parents were doing to me, and then erasing or crossing it out (poorly). I was afraid even then what might happen if they read my disobedient thoughts. The abuse was/is mostly emotional and psychological in nature.)

I feel bad. I feel like a bad kid. I'm in my forties. I'm not a kid. And I'm not bad. But I feel like a bad kid for shutting out my dad. I don't want him to hurt.

In spite of how I feel, I know with decent clarity that it's been the right thing to do for now. I've had a lot of confirmation of that, including, most importantly, a huge improvement in my health. My T and spouse and friends and even a cousin are supportive.

But one thing I'm a little fuzzy on in the middle of all this is the difference between establishing NC, for now, with him, versus giving the silent treatment or cold shoulder. I mean, while I may know that I'm doing this for my own health and sanity, and that I'm working hard on my healing such that maybe I'll be able to re-engage with him later, he probably doesn't know this. He should, as I've told him, but he is, frankly, stupid about such things. I think it's the empathy thing. He interprets my behaviors like I'm an unhinged alien species. He tells me I baffle him. He's at a loss. I'm just so incomprehensible to him. But when I try to explain my thinking to him, how I reached my conclusions, this generally falls on deaf ears. Everything that comes from inside of me is wrong, to both of my parents. So I'm trying to not JADE.

I'm not trying to punish F, although honestly I would like him to face some consequences. I've been angry, and I've communicated anger in other contexts. But mostly I needed to try to scrape together some dignity and look out for my health. And, of course, this kind of boundary enforcement is what anger is for.

However, given his lack of empathy and emotional intelligence, I assume the NC looks petty or punishing to him. And it's got me thinking, what is the difference? Is it just that I know my own heart? Because I find that unsatisfying. I don't want him to think I'm taking my anger out on him, when if anything, I'm protecting him from my anger by being NC for now.

So what do you think is the difference between NC and silent treatment, and how would you be able to tell the difference if you were in the PD person's shoes?

[WomanInterrupted]

Hi RavenLady   

To me, the key difference between NC and the ST is  the ST comes from a place of *anger* and NC is pretty much the last resort to getting some damned peace, quiet and time to think.

You may have been angry when you started NC or during it, but the purpose isn't *punitive.*  You're not trying to teach somebody a lesson (well, except for yourself, as you grow as a person and progress in  your recovery!   ), out for proverbial blood, or trying to bring somebody to heel.

You're not employing NC as a retaliatory measure - but the PD in your life won't see it that way, no matter what you say or do, IME.

UnBPD Didi was big on the ST, which somebody here later called the Silent Treat, and yes, I did think of it that way.   

She'd hear something she didn't like, slam the phone down and I wouldn't hear from her for two weeks, until the day she'd call and pretend nothing happened, but act like I *owed* her something.   

Two weeks was her, to her, the right amount of time in which I should learn my lesson.  The only lesson I learned was I *loved* that two-week break in contact, and longed for more silence.   

I was expected to call her, every day, and listen to the same complaints for *hours* on end - one of the first things I did, when I came here, was decide that was *far* from reasonable, so I started "backing out of the room" - calling every other day, for a while, then every third day, etc, while starting to use Medium Chill, then *only* using it.

She'd invariably slam the phone down, but I stuck to *my* schedule for contact - and Medium Chill.

That's when the "health scares" and "health crises" and "they think I have caaaaaaaaaaancer!" scares began - and it changed nothing, from my end.  I stuck to what *I* deemed was  an acceptable level of contact, with one other boundary:  no visits, now or ever, for any reason.

I *was* angry,  yes - at the way I was being treated like a thing.  By the constant drama and chaos.  By how everything was about Didi and she only *once* in eight months, asked how I was, or DH was, or the pets were faring.

ONCE. 

I stuck to Medium Chill, she flew into a rage and slammed the phone down. 

But more than the anger, I was gobsmacked by the inconsideration, lack of regard, utter selfishness, blatant lies, attempts at manipulation - and what *really* made me angry was how long  it had taken me to see it for what it really was.

I was angriest at myself, honestly - I felt like a damned fool.   

I didn't actually go NC with Didi - but VVVVVLC, and in retrospect, I wish I would have just pulled the plug because it would have been kinder to *both* of us - to myself, as a human being who just wanted to be left to live her life in peace, and to Didi, who regularly had people cut her off and never contact her again.

I wish I'd have just done it and joined all the other smart people who figured out  she was a lost cause, so she had something new to gripe about - although I know she did plenty of griping about her defective washing machine, aka me.   

While I was angry, and at the start, was *hoping* Didi would figure out bad behavior/nasty comments = less contact, I started to realize she never *would* or *could* learn.  She was too self-involved. 

My desire was to detach from that unhealthy version of reality.  It was too stressful, too damaging, caused too much anxiety and NO, you shouldn't feel the need to slam a couple of light beers after talking to your mother!   

After she died, going NC  with unNPD Ray was a no-brainer.   

I don't think Ray ever had a kind or validating thing to say about me, in his entire life.  Didi would give intermittent, back-handed praise on how things reflected on her and her parenting, but Ray just blamed the living shit out of me for everything  - including ruining his marriage to Didi, with my needs, wants, lies, manipulation and how *I taught Didi money burns a hole in her pocket, so spend it all.*

Wow...that's some serious shit to lay on a kid!  I corrupted my own mom and wrecked their marriage!   

I thought, maybe for a week, that Ray and I could have some kind of relationship but it became clear, very quickly, that he expected me to be his verbal sparring partner and take Didi's place in their 60+ year relationship, without missing a beat.   

All they did was argue - and I *hate* arguing.   So ULTRA VVVLC it was, until Ray finally overplayed his hand in getting me over there and got himself declared incompetent, placed in a memory care unit he probably doesn't need to be in - and I've been NC for nearly 3 years.   

I'm starting to wonder if our contact with them, when they consider us "malfunctioning" (having boundaries), is just as damaging to them as it is to us - and I think that answer might be yes.

In my case, it is.  Going NC with Ray was the kindest, sanest, easiest decision I've ever made  - as much as I dislike the man, I stayed on the periphery enough to get him to that memory care unit and then exited his life, while he probably still complains that a 50-something year-old-woman cut and ran with is money to buy toys, makeup and candy.   

We change over time.  We evolve.  We see things differently, and even our anger evolves into a *force for what's good and right for us.*   

One day, you'll wake up, knowing your NC isn't about being a spiteful little SOB, or whatever that soundtrack in your head is telling you.

It's about clarity.  It's about sanity.  It's about making good and healthy decisions.  It's about doing what's right for YOU - the person who was always expected to be a bit-player in your own life,  while the PDs took center stage, at all times.   

You get to be the *star* of your own life - and that starts with boundaries, that may include excluding others who are harmful to you. 

I think the biggest difference between NC and ST is being able to look at  yourself in the mirror and knowing you did the right thing, and being able to smile at your battle-worn self.   

You're still here.  You're still alive - and you still have feelings for the things that matter most to you.

You're not an all-consumed ball of RAGE and ANGER wanting to SMITE and bring down ruin.   

You just want to diminish to the West and be Galadriel.   

And there's not a damned thing wrong with that. 

[notrightinthehead]

For me the Silent Treatment is when I am actually in regular contact with the person, like working or living together and pretend that she is air/does not exist/I cannot hear or see her. It is a form of punishment and you actually have to be in contact with the person to give them silent treatment. I suppose not answering text messages or emails would also be a form of ST.

No contact means for me that I completely cut contact with a person. It would be impossible to do that if we were living together. I block them on my phone and avoid any sites or occasions where  I could run into them. I don't contact them in any way. I don't respond to any of their attempts at contacting me. I do not talk with others about them and ask others not to pass on any messages or tell me about them.

[betta fish]

For me silent treatment is a punishment. NC is something you do for yourself, a distance to heal and reflect.

[Yael924]

 

[moglow]

...I assume the NC looks petty or punishing to him. And it's got me thinking, what is the difference? Is it just that I know my own heart? Because I find that unsatisfying. I don't want him to think I'm taking my anger out on him, when if anything, I'm protecting him from my anger by being NC for now.

So what do you think is the difference between NC and silent treatment, and how would you be able to tell the difference if you were in the PD person's shoes?

I don't believe many understand the difference at all. I think our choice of no contact is seen as us disappearing in a huff - which to me (a huff, that is), is silent treatment. No contact is a conscious difficult choice to me, when we realize we're getting nowhere doing what we're doing and have run out of options. We need a break and distance so we can heal and find a way to move forward.

It's kind of like my choice for very limited contact - I call when I have something to say, or to just check on mother. I don't and wont call every week just to have a recitation of the oft-repeated complaints from every previous call. Mother going sideways, losing her shit and hanging up on me? Silent treatment. Mother sees silent at silent treatment, period. There's no nuance there for her - she assumes and assumes. Me, you get ugly and hang up on me, I'm gonna let you enjoy the silence. I have other things to do.

It's indeed a fine line. Just remember you don't have to label it to yourself or anyone else. I've had periods of no contact while I tried to sort through the debris, and eventually came to where I am now. Unwilling to completely cut her off, but with the full knowledge she has no clue who I am. And honestly, she doesn't care unless it serves her need of the moment. We're no better no worse than we ever were - I just see it for what it is now, and am not interested in trying to build a relationship on the shifting sands in her mind.

[Andeza]

I haven't gone no contact, but I will say I see it as an ultimate form of mental self-defense. The silent treatment is an attack, or is meant to be anyway. So yes, it really is all about intentions and perceptions unfortunately.

If I intend to protect myself or my family by abstaining from conversations or interactions that would cause stress or trauma, then that intention is good, because it serves a purpose but does not seek actively to harm another. If she (uPDM) intends to withdraw communication in order to punish or teach me a lesson, then she is actively seeking to harm another and her intentions are not good. The difference seems to be that one action (no contact) is about turning inwards, and the other (silent treatment) is about turning outwards. No contact (or in my case very low contact) allows us to turn inwards and seek healing for ourselves which is what you are experiencing. But the PD in our life is not seeking healing, not even if they claim we've hurt their feelings. They cut us off for a very specific purpose when they use the silent treatment. Guilt. They want us to feel Guilt. They are attempting to force Guilt outwards. And that is exactly why you feel like a naughty child even though rationally you know you're not. I get that feeling too sometimes and that's when I read back through my journal. For clarity it was written, and clarity it provides. I was not and am not a naughty child. Neither are you.

So while I seriously doubt your F understands the difference at all, since he doesn't seem to understand anything else you've tried to explain to him (my own uPDM is similarly clueless concerning defaults in her character, by the way) I also have no doubt you've made the difference abundantly clear to him. I encourage you not to doubt yourself on that point. What he chooses to believe at this point... well, that's his choice. Given the propensity for NPDs and especially BPDs to seek victimhood, I can guess which one he's going to choose to believe. Besides, it's by far easier to believe your child is throwing a fit and cutting you out for a season because (fill in the blank here) than it is to accept that you as a parent were so horrible and did something so horrible that your child needs quiet time to seek healing and peace within before they can even contemplate being around you/speaking to you again because you are incapable of changing or understanding. Blame shifting. It's just easier for them.

[RavenLady]

Thanks, everyone. I appreciate your perspectives. You've made it a little easier for me to do what I know I have to do anyway.

Something I am indeed needing to work on is to recognize when I'm feeling guilty and then try to identify whether there is actually anything wrong when attached to the feeling of guilt. In this case, I may feel guilty about not "being there" for my parents, but the truth is, they don't even want me there. They want someone who will perform X, Y and Z. I'm not performing those things for them anymore; it's not who I am. When I do show up and am there with them and am trying just to *be*, the shit hits the fan. So it's not me they want anyway. It's the performance that I quit.

Since I can't bring what they want, and I'm not welcome otherwise, the right thing is for me to stay away. Taking care of myself means not exposing myself to people who hurt and reject me. So my no contact is, indeed, all about self care.

[treesgrowslowly]

I saw a quote about how some people are committed to misunderstanding you, no matter what you say. This comes to mind when I read your query.

They want you to continue to believe that their needs come before yours (and honestly, after 10 years of NC, I am going to say that I've come to accept that they do not see my needs as existing).

Forty is a beautiful age and stage of life. Things come up to be accepted, that were so hard to accept in my earlier years. The desire for peace and the ability to look back at our 20's and 30's and see that the PD's brought us drama to cycle through, becomes stronger in our 40's. We can see the patterns and cycles in our past experiences with our selves, with the relationship with the PD.

I don't believe it is your job to help someone else understand the difference between NC and the silent treatment. There are so many books and resources they can access themselves if they want to learn about why they feel the way they do.

As a survivor of PD abuse, I have come to believe that the PD people in my life, are responsible for their own behaviours, including find their own resources to deal with their hurt feelings. They have the same access to the internet that I do. Why would I be tasked with using my time to help them explore their hurt feelings when I have good reasons for needing to focus on my own needs? The answer is that a narcissistic person, has no trouble blaming others for their own behaviours. They can live in that mindset, but it's toxic for me, and for anyone who wants to grow up and practice feeling healthy.

[Psuedonym]

RavenLady,

This is so well said and helpful: the truth is, they don't even want me there. They want someone who will perform X, Y and Z. I'm not performing those things for them anymore; it's not who I am. When I do show up and am there with them and am trying just to *be*, the shit hits the fan. So it's not me they want anyway. It's the performance that I quit.

My uBPDm keeps saying to my BF that she wishes 'I would come see her'. No she doesn't. She has a letter and an explanation of what she needs to change if she wants any sort of relationship with me. She won't even acknowledge it. What she wants is for me pretend that nothing happened and to do nice things for her so that she can believe she deserves it.

Thanks for that insight!

[RavenLady]

Pseudonym, I'm sorry/glad it speaks to you. It has been helping me to try to remember that I have stepped outside the role they used to direct me in, shed the costume, and walked off the stage. So when I hear or imagine them beckoning, I can hear it as a request made to someone else, inside the work of fiction whose performance they prefer over a relationship with me.