Indifference

[Twinkletoes88]

Hi everyone,

I've done a lot of very hard work in therapy for the last 4.5 years and I feel like I am currently in a place where my anger for my mother has gone BUT that since the illusion of her has also gone and I've accepted all the very harsh realities, I am left not feeling much at all.

I feel the emptiness and lack of emotional connection. I see and feel that we have nothing in common. I don't hate her - but I don't feel I love her anymore either. Maybe I do love her in a way, I must do (??) but I don't FEEL that either.... I just feel a kind of indifference?

So I now find that whilst I don't absolutely dread seeing her in the way I used to, I don't particularly want to either. I don't contact her first ever - but I do reply to her texts which come every 3 weeks or so, basically we have low contact now I suppose, it's been this way since about last April or May after 6 months of no contact (back story in previous posts).

I just wonder is this normal? Does anyone else feel this absolute indifference?

Part of me thinks this is a good thing, the anger and resentment and sadness and the guilt and anxiety was a killer and it's a huge relief to be free from those feelings for sure.... but to feel such indifference is rather weird too.

When she asks to meet me (about once a month) I don't want to make the plans to be honest, it's a bit like a chore.... but I also don't really want to tell her I want no contact and I don't want any arguments or family disputes either.

When she texts me I struggle to make enough conversation. We haven't spoken my phone in over a year. We meet for dinner or coffee once every 5/6 weeks - always her that initiates that convo. She STILL ignores my husband and stepkids' existence. My therapist says the emptiness of her and our "relationship" is clear now the illusion has gone and that's what I'm feeling.

It's a strange place to be in.. I'm not complaining really - just curious on what people think of this and if others feel the same and how they approach the situation?

[RavenLady]

I'll be interested to follow the responses to this. I think I may be approaching something similar re: uNPDf. Unlike uBDPm, my father is able to turn a completely deaf ear to me. I'm not sure I fully exist to him. I can relate to that feeling of emptiness you describe.

[WomanInterrupted]

I think indifference is a good place to be, because you really see what's going on, and realize you don't want to participate in the sham, any longer.

Perhaps when your mom texts about coffee or dinner, you can reply, "It isn't a good time right now.  I'll have to get back to you later about it."

And then you just  *don't.*   

If she brings it up again, you can reply, "It doesn't work for me.  I'll let you know later."

And again, you just don't.   

Maybe she'll get the hint, or maybe she won't, but if she asks why not, stick to, "I'm very busy and have a lot going on."

If she demands to know WHAT is so important that you can't take time to meet her for coffee or a meal, stick with, "You know how it is - it's never a dull moment around here."

You'll have told her *absolutely nothing* and given her NO information to use against you.   

Indifference makes Medium Chill a lot easier, because you really don't care, and you're being polite, like you would with a stranger you just met - and that's exactly what your mother is:  a stranger who doesn't know you, so she doesn't get the luxury of JADE or explanations.

When I got to indifference with unBPD Didi, it was so much easier to deflect her and swat her demands and complaints away.  I didn't feel scared or nervous - and I didn't feel like, "How freaking DARE you!?  Lady, you have some nerve!" 

I prefer not to be shaking with fear - or anger - so I quite liked indifference, and after she died, I went there immediately with unNPD Ray, realizing there was no hope in having any sort of relationship.

He was a little easier to deflect - he'd say, "Why not?" - and I'd come back with, "Because I said I can't." - and he'd just leave it, after I'd repeat myself a time or two.

Then again, Ray was acting more like he wanted a mommy - Didi acted like she was owed a slave.   

Hopefully, your mom will stop asking if you give terse answers and without solid explanations - or you may get lucky in that she gives you the Silent Treat.

To me, indifference really is the total opposite of love, because this person matters not one whit to you.  You could stop hearing from them tomorrow and never hear from them again, and you probably wouldn't notice for quite a while - and when you did, you'd probably smile and think, "Good." 

[broken]

I am sort of in this position too, funny that my journey has also been going on for 4.5 years also!  I wonder if I have just gray rocked the life out of our relationship.  I'd be happy for things to continue uneventfully until her death, as she is elderly.  How old is your PDm? 
I'm sure that mine doesn't raise hell anymore because she 'needs' me, to occasionally drive her around, etc.  I have the upper hand.  But it also boils down to appearances.  She doesn't want anyone to know her family is less than perfect.  Could this be your m's motivation?  To tolerate seldom seeing you in exchange for the appearance of a normal relationship? 

[daughter]

I'd been in periods of therapy three times before my NC decision, beginning as a young-adult, always triggered by a Big Bad Behavior episode of my malevolent NBM (and reliably enabled/enforced by NF).  I was the SG dutiful daughter, so for a long time, I believed, as my parents frankly advised me, over and over again:  IT IS WHAT IT IS and WE ARE WHO WE ARE, AND WE WON'T CHANGE.

So for a long time, I was the one dutifully tolerating their disdainful, their blatant disfavor (overtly favoring GC "princess" nsis - my only sibling), their disrespect and bullying behaviors.  I was a good girl, yet constantly "in trouble" with my parents.  And yet I was quite Out of the FOG regarding the dynamics, and that I wasn't "at fault" for this dysfunction.  Each period of therapy jacked me a little further into rejecting the dynamic, emotionally-distancing myself from my parents and nsis, moving 15-minutes from FOO neighborhood, etc.  But each little bit of "independence" also triggered a LOT of blow-back from my parents, who were closely monitoring me nonetheless for signs of noncompliance and "disobedience".

Me too, I didn't have "anger", but rather a gaining indifference, where I played my familial role ("SG", "hostess/gift-giver", "helper"), but emotionally-detached in a BIG WAY.  I didn't expect much from my parents, didn't feel any empathy, compassion or affection from them, and plodded-on, reliably attending all FOO gatherings as summoned.  But my parents could "smell" that quiet indifference, and their animosity and aggression become more apparent, not just because I was Out of the FOG and "therapy-treated", but because it tangibly increased.  PD-disordered parents often become harsher and more aggressive as they sense withdrawal from their adult-children.

Eventually this pretense at "happy family", coupled with their innate rudeness and frequent disdain towards us, motivated DH and I to chose to "go NC", doing so during another FOO dinner we were hosting where my parents and nsis were again behaving in a rude and disdainful manner.  I think that with sufficient therapy, it becomes stranger and stranger to interact as if "happy family", because of that fakery, because of their often bombastic behaviors, because eventually we become unwilling to still be treated as a "thing", rather than a genuinely-loved person.  I'd acknowledge your indifference and "lack of emotional connection" to your mother as a healthy outcome, not as a symptom that needs "fixing".  Maybe you remain in contact, to monitor her well-being and daily needs as she ages, without seeking emotional connection or kind reward-acknowledgment from her.  But for some of us, Gray Rock doesn't work anymore.  Maybe you detach altogether, like I did, no longer wanting to sacrifice your own emotional well-being.  Many of us were raised to be selfless, self-sacrificing and obedient Dutiful Daughters to our imperious mothers.

[Twinkletoes88]

When I got to indifference with unBPD Didi, it was so much easier to deflect her and swat her demands and complaints away.  I didn't feel scared or nervous - and I didn't feel like, "How freaking DARE you!?  Lady, you have some nerve!" 

I prefer not to be shaking with fear - or anger - so I quite liked indifference,

This exactly!!! I no longer feel scared or nervous and that's such an amazing feeling after spending my entire life feeling that way. I also much prefer it and I also like the indifference, I just wondered if I was normal really 😂😂

[Twinkletoes88]

I am sort of in this position too, funny that my journey has also been going on for 4.5 years also!  I wonder if I have just gray rocked the life out of our relationship.  I'd be happy for things to continue uneventfully until her death, as she is elderly.  How old is your PDm? 
I'm sure that mine doesn't raise hell anymore because she 'needs' me, to occasionally drive her around, etc.  I have the upper hand.  But it also boils down to appearances.  She doesn't want anyone to know her family is less than perfect.  Could this be your m's motivation?  To tolerate seldom seeing you in exchange for the appearance of a normal relationship?

Ooh really? Perhaps that's how long it takes to get to indifference?

Mine is only 51 unfortunately so doesn't "need" me in that way yet... re the happy families thing, absolutely!!! She wouldn't want people thinking she was a bad mum in any way and I guess most people would wonder why an adult child no longer spoke to or saw a parent wouldn't they? So yes it absolutely could be that. I think it's 80% just how dare me and 20% appearances lol xx

[Summer Sun]

Could it be the final stage of grief, which is acceptance, has been achieved?  And with acceptance, indifference? No expectations of love or needs met by her? Simply, Acceptance.  "The opposite of love is not hate, rather, indifference". Elie Wiesel

I once read that when we no longer have a visceral response to our abusers while in their presence we are healed?  So it sounds like a good thing that you are experiencing, although, not the way it "should" be.  It's like congratulations and condolences are due simultaneously.

Summer Sun

[daughterofbpd]

Same here. I think there was never any real connection and now the relationship is just there. Your "real life" is the one with your DH and kids and she doesn't acknowledge that so its like she doesn't really acknowledge YOU. Its like being acquaintances instead of family. It is a weird feeling.

[Twinkletoes88]

Same here. I think there was never any real connection and now the relationship is just there. Your "real life" is the one with your DH and kids and she doesn't acknowledge that so its like she doesn't really acknowledge YOU. Its like being acquaintances instead of family. It is a weird feeling.

I couldn't word that better if I tried! Spot on. That's how I feel and that's what I say allllll the time to my husband (and to my t) - her ignoring my life is like she's looking at me whilst not seeing me (much like my entire life really) - she only sees what she wants to see. Well, now I make my own decisions and I refuse to pretend to be anyone other than who I am! Xx

[all4peace]

I think that's a perfect word to describe what I mainly feel at this point. I've read that the opposite of love isn't hate, but indifference. I don't want to opposite-of-love my parents, but I think I'm finally realistic about what our relationship actually is. And I do feel mainly indifferent. "Detached" is another word I've come to associate with how I mainly feel regarding my parents.

[Twinkletoes88]

Could it be the final stage of grief, which is acceptance, has been achieved?  And with acceptance, indifference? No expectations of love or needs met by her? Simply, Acceptance.  "The opposite of love is not hate, rather, indifference". Elie Wiesel

I once read that when we no longer have a visceral response to our abusers while in their presence we are healed?  So it sounds like a good thing that you are experiencing, although, not the way it "should" be.  It's like congratulations and condolences are due simultaneously.

Summer Sun

OOhh well I like the sound of this!! Maybe you are right?! Although since posting this I seem to be feeling REALLY angry whenever I see anyone even remotely attempt to manipulate me (passive aggression, silent treatment etc) - so whilst I am feeling indifferent to my mother.... I am clearly still dealing with the after effects of her treatment on me. x

[blues_cruise]

Yes, I'm nearly 2 years into having no contact with my father and I'm getting along quite happily as I am without him in my life. It feels a bit like leaving high school and finally not having to see that person again who bullied you relentlessly for years. You never had a bond with that person and they were always cruel to you, so what is there to miss? My overriding memories are of ridicule and shame and I certainly don't miss that. He was 'generous' with money and gifts but there were always strings attached, and I sure as heck don't miss that either. Once there was the illusion I had built up in my head of a loving father, but I don't believe that ever existed and I seem to be coming to terms with that more and more as time goes by. I believe in my own truth far more than I ever did before too and need the validation of others far less.