Trust

Started by Findingmyvoice, February 05, 2019, 02:46:54 PM

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Findingmyvoice

exBPDw wants to take our son to do get his learner's license.
He needs identification to do this, so she requested his passport and birth certificate.
She also told him that she needs his ID and to ask me for it, so he is already invested in the process.
She made a promise to him so if I don't allow it, I look like the bad guy.

I don't trust that she will return his ID to me, so this morning I asked her on OFW if she would return it to me when she is done and she replied that the ID is safe at her house and that I don't need it back.
She is justifying why she should keep his id so that indicates to me she plans on not returning it. She also asked if I was refusing to allow son to have his ID.

I just replied back that if she did not agree to return his documents that I would take him instead.
then she replied back that she would return it to me, but also asked for our daughter's birth certificates so she could make copies.

My gut feeling on this is that it will not go smoothly no matter how I approach it.
I asked my mom to come with me to verify that I handed her the documents and that she agrees to return them and the same when I ask for them back.
I imagine that she will make up things and gaslight anyways, as she did even when the police were present for a previous exchange.

A friend of mine suggested that I simply meet her at the registry with the documents and not allow her to have them at all.
That way son still gets to participate with mom and the documents are safe.
Obviously if she wants copies, I will just give her copies and not the originals.

I want to believe her and extend goodwill, but her past behavior has shown me that there really is no point.  It never results in any return on investment.

Associate of Daniel

I don't understand why she needs the passport. Not everyone has a passport (especially children/teenagers) so there must be a way of meeting the identification requirements without one.

She should be able to get her own copy of the birth certificate through the departnent that issues them. So again, no need to give her yours.

I'm don't know what you mean by your son's id, so I can't help you there.

If all she needs is photo copues of said documents, I'd suggest doing what you've already thought of - photo copy them for.

Off course my comments are based on my experience and the set up in my country so may not be relevant to your situation.

You're being wise to be so cautious.

Perhaps check with the licencing place that what she's telling you is true.  They might only need a library card or something...

I've learned over the years to not believe a word of what my uNPD exH and his iNPD wife say; to speak to the relevant authorities to check the information the uNPDs have given me and to do as much as possible myself in these types of situations in order to minimise my interractions with the uNPDs.

Keep us posted..

AOD

D.Dan

I know I needed my kids provincial health cards and SIN numbers to open up their RDSP's, and if I remember correctly, that's all she would need to open a bank account in the kids names, or get a credit card or loan or something where I live.

On this forum, there are adult children whose PD parents took out student loans, in their children's names without their knowledge and proceeded to spend it on themselves, which left the adult children having to pay off the debt.

If I were you, I also wouldn't hand over something so important for my kids. Especially with the subtle hint of not returning it. That could cause a lot of problems in the future.

If it were my upd mom, the wanting my ID for drivers testing would most likely be to make sure I could never go. In short I would have to beg, plead, and do whatever she wants until she either takes me or gives the ID back, or destroys it. She would be able to hold my ability to drive and a lot of other growing up things, hostage.

In my case my upd mom DID in fact destroy my ID, so I could never leave her. (She did this before I started asking to apply at jobs at 14yo) I had to beg extended relatives for money to get new copies without her knowledge.

Findingmyvoice

Thanks for the advice,
D.Dan, i can't imagine growing up with such a controlling parent.
Luckily exBPDw targets me more than the kids. 
Her control of them is more on the side of manipulation ie. telling them things that are untrue, influencing their thoughts and opinions of people and themselves.
buying them things to win favor, etc.  She has taken their things to gain control but eventually returns them.

AOD, I was thinking of calling the registry to see what the requirements are.
I don't even know if they would give the exams on the weekend.
Also, he may be able to use his student ID as photo identification.

Findingmyvoice

So, I called the registry.
They need birth certificate or passport.  Not both as she requested.
Photo ID is not required for a child.

Birth cert is relatively easy to replace, so I'm going to treat this as a trust building exercise.
If she refuses to return it, I am not out much.

athene1399

FMV,

I am so glad you checked and found out what she really needed.  :) SO and I verify everything xuBPDm tells us. She usually lies to get something else that she needs. If we were in your shoes she would keep the IDs just for the "control" aspect of it (which sounds like maybe what was going on in your case). And great idea on how to make a win/win for yourself. As you said, if she gives the birth certificate back you will trust her more but if she doesn't you aren't out much.

Findingmyvoice

So, of course she pushed back on this and told me that i am wrong.
Also, they were at her house after school yesterday and when she dropped them off DS was asking for his identification because exBPDw was demanding it.
I told him that I would give it to her on Friday when they are going for the exam.  He was pouty about it, but he got over it.

I got a message from her afterwards asking why I wouldn't allow her to have his documents to "get ready" for the exam on Friday.
She has to present the documents at the counter, not sure how many days of preparation that takes.?? Apparently for her it would take 3 days..
She also said that he has a right to his documents, however, she is the one that is demanding them. At this point I don't think he understands what is going on with her or the risk involved in handing over important documents.

Athena, i agree it is about power and control.
As the primary parent I should have ownership of the kids important documents.

athene1399

I am sorry she was so upset at you over what you said. I feel for you. I hate being in those situations where it feels like you are screwed either way. So chose what is more important to you. If it's more important to keep the ID, then show her the screen shot of the requirements and say she can't have that but you'll gladly fork over the birth certificate. Or if you want to try not to rock the boat let her have it on Friday. In that case try to mitigate the issue by letting DS know you trust him to be responsible with the stuff and hope he can bring it all back next time so you don't lose it. Maybe that could help keep it out of her hands.

SO's uBPDxw created drama over getting the driving permit. She wanted to take SD, but said it was all his fault she couldn't do that because she couldn't prove his residency (he has custody). She blew up, had SD all upset as well. We said we would take care of it on our night then. Of course nothing was needed to prove residency. SD was crabby over the whole thing and BM chewed us out for "ruining something that should be a joyous pivotal moment in SD's life...(paraphrase)" because she had to then wait one day to get her permit  :roll:

Findingmyvoice

So, it turned out like I expected.
She would not return his birth certificate.

All is OK though, I found that I actually had two copies of it.
But it just goes to show that I still can not rely on her to keep her word.

I did have the conversation with my son about the importance of the document and he agreed to make sure he brought it back.
However when I picked him up his story changed to "I chose to leave it at mom's."  I didn't get upset with him, but I did tell him I was disappointed that he didn't bring it back like we agreed. 

Magnolia34

I swear I read so many stories on here of IDENTICAL situations. From what I can tell it's all about control. My DH ended up at the parent coordinator with his uBPDx and she brought up these identification documents. Now, I think it's pretty obvious to the PC (and anyone else) that the parent who left the state for 3 years is probably the one who is going to need to ask for things like birth certificates and social security cards. Like you, Findingmyvoice, she has used the kids in multiple plots to get these documents from DH. In her rant to the PC she mentioned that she had to call and have copies of the kids' birth certificates sent to her. The PC asked her if there were any other forms she needed from DH and her eyes lit up and she said "YES!" and rattled off a list. The PC very calmly looked at her and said "Well, I suggest that you make a list of what you need and just like the birth certificates, go get your own copies." This ABSOLUTELY took the wind out of her sails and that's when I knew. It's never about the documents, it's never about the phone calls or the hair cuts or the shoes or doctor's appointments. It's about being able to have control over the other parent, or the kids, or whatever. It doesn't exactly make things any easier but knowing that it's not rational always helps me keep it in perspective.

athene1399

Acc1984,

I agree with you, but would also like to add maybe it's to get the child to rely on them more. Like "I have these documents/shoes/clothes/supplies now, so you don't need that other parent."

FMV,

I'm sorry it was reinforced that your x can't be trusted with the documents, but at least she only has a copy of the birth certificate. Plus you didn't lose the ID that she wanted as well.  And now you know for the future she can't be trusted.