Contact after 3 years NC - mistake?

Started by jdmelb, August 31, 2018, 08:30:54 AM

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jdmelb

I hate to be one of those people who only contributes to this amazing forum when I want something. FWIW I am a frequent visitor and have gained much wisdom and assistance from this site, mostly just from reading other people's stories. This is literally the only place I can think of that would truly understand the horrors of being scapegoated within a family, without dismissing it as 'all in my head'.

Anyway, I'd love some feedback if anyone feels like offering it. After many painful, protracted years I managed to extricate myself from my messed up family 3 years ago, going complete NC. It saved my life, and then gave me a life. I have spent the last 3 years slowly getting to know myself, attending therapy, processing buried pain, and doing a range of things I felt unable to do when I was a polite, obedient, scapegoated member of my apparently loving family. This includes taking up painting, making music, dancing, making new friends, having romances. I lived under a constant cloud of guilt and obligation in my family, which barred me from these lovely things.

Anyway, a few months ago I started corresponding with my younger brother - he's a golden child and a flying monkey for sure. We met up twice, mostly because he's going through a very difficult situation that might lead to him going to jail, and I felt terrible for him. I didn't enjoy seeing him, but I felt he appreciated it a great deal, because he HIGHLY values 'happy families'. It didn't fill me with dread, it didn't lead to a big re-emergence of guilt or obligation, and I was encouraged by these signs. Like I said, I haven't enjoyed it, I guess because there's too much bad history, but it felt manageable.

Then last week my older brother sent me an email. We have had zero contact for 3 years. He has been the great tormentor of my life. He is uPD and he controls my whole family. I wont go into the backstory of how he has bullied and scapegoated me my whole life, but let's just say I had full blown nightmares where I'd wake screaming right up until I was 32, caused by things he did to me when we were kids. The straw that broke the camel's back 3 years ago was when I told the truth about my step dad sexually abusing me, and my older brother knew full well that I'd told the truth, but he lied and sided with my step dad, and the rest of the family followed suit because they do what my older brother does.

I felt truly liberated when I went NC. I could finally stop living in the FOG. So anyway, he emailed me last week, asking if I wanted to know how his young daughters were going, and saying it would be good for me to be a part of their lives. I immediately felt a wave of guilt and obligation come over me. And I had a sleepless night. These weren't good signs.

But because I'm human, and because a part of me suspected I really have grown so much stronger than I used to be, I wrote back. I genuinely do understand now, in a way I never used to, that I will NEVER be able to change my family, particularly my older brother. He will NEVER EVER understand, or face the truth, or acknowledge the awful realities of our past, or how much he has bullied me.

Am I a fool for resuming contact? Have I just set myself back? I don't feel full of dread. Is a simple, occasional contact the pragmatic choice, given the things I now know, and the limits I can now set? Or am I just kidding myself?

If anyone here has experience of going from NC to contact, I'd love to get your thoughts. Otherwise, I guess I will just let my own instincts and emotions guide me going forward.

It's good to put some words down, if nothing else. Thanks one and all.

EagleyeWriter

I completely understand your situation. I have a sibling that used their children as emotional bait to lure me back into my role as SG. I am NC for 5 years now and cutting out my PDsibling and their kids was hard. But I refuse to allow my PD sibling to use the children as pawns. This sibling was chumming the waters with the "blood" of their children to attract me back into the mess. I made the painful yet necessary move from VVLC to NC to stop this vicious cycle of PD madness that has been in my FOO of at least 4 generations. I don't know what to tell you but it seems that your brother wants to use his kids to lure you back into your role as SG. Noting is sacred to PDs and using children as emotional bait and supply is a common tactic.

I know what you are going through, it is tough. NC is such a personal and difficult choice. The ups and downs, the guilt, it is so much. Taking care of you is the most important. I hope this helps......I totally understand

jdmelb

Thank you for the response, it is very helpful. I refuse to lose the amazing gains I've made over the past 3 years, so I'm going to take it one encounter at a time, and if I get even a WHIFF of the old SG behaviour, I'm out. This is the pledge I will make to myself.

SG is such a real, complex and horrible thing for some of us - I reckon I could write a book on it! Or quite literally set up a SG safehouse for people. There was a time when it consumed/controlled my life. I'm frankly amazed I survived it.


carrots

I went from a position of NC with some FOO mbrs, LC with others and VLC with still others back into fairly normal contact. I thought they had changed and I thought I was strong enough. And I wanted to be a mbr of FOO. I wanted to be part of it again. I hadn't really understood up till that point how dysfunctional FOO as a whole is.

After various happenings, I'm on a range of VLC to VVVLC with FOO mbrs and doing a fade-out NC with a couple. I don't view my going back to the fold as a mistake, but rather as part of my healing journey, learning path. I won't be going back to any form of normal contact though. I have realised that even the smallest contact with all FOO mbrs has the potential to trigger symptoms of my cptsd big time. I'm no longer willing to endure that, especially since some of the changes for the worse seem almost permanent. But even if they weren't, symptoms being triggered sets me back every time, destabilises me, and makes day-to-day life harder than it already is with cptsd, often for a number of weeks or even months.  It took me a long time to realise all this though.

The life you made for yourself - wow! Sounds great. I hope you get back to it  :) Good idea on making a pledge to yourself. I never did but just slid slowly back.

bloomie

Hi jdmelb - what great strides and healing you have experienced! It is such an encouragement to read of the stability and discernment you have achieved as you have come Out of the FOG.

I wonder something... and I ask gently...why would your older brother - who led the charge to deny your courageous reporting of horrific sexual abuse of you by a family member - want you to be part of his children's lives? Why would he seek contact between you and his children when he has accused you of making false allegations against your step father?

This is someone who has lied about you and bullied you into trauma responses. This is the ringmaster in the family PD circus it seems. What is there to gain for you to allow him into any part of your happy, well adjusted life?

The most powerful people are peaceful people.

The truth will set you free if you believe it.

jdmelb

Thank you for the responses.

Bloomie - you are right. They are difficult but important q's for me to ask myself. My feeling is it's actually connected to the ongoing blanket invalidation of the truths I told - both about the sexual abuse, and my older brother's bullying of me. My FOO generally believes that I'M the only problem in our family, that they are all saints who only mean well, that I'm difficult, that I'm a 'victim', a whinger, a sook, a fantasist, a trouble-maker, an attention seeker. And so everything I have said - about abuse and bullying - is just a part of that. And it's as if all this time of NC, they've just been patiently waiting for me to 'calm down' and return to my senses. These are the things that I suspect are waiting for me if I continue down the contact route. And they are not pretty. They will most definitely set me back a long way if I let them run.

The part of me that knows that the truth is everything, wants to write to my older brother and say this: "thank you for the recent emails, and thank you for the photos of your daughters. I am not able to be a part of our family until certain truths are acknowledged, so that our family can start to heal and move forward." If I wrote that, it would go TERRIBLY for me. I would have an email from my other 2 siblings criticising me strongly, and my older brother would act like the wounded victim who had tried to do the right thing, and it would be made clear to me all over again that no one believes me about the abuse. Etc. etc.

All of that is waiting for me, if I so much as 'step out of line'. If I get angry or irritated, or criticize in any way, or even just indicate to my siblings that I am strong and independent. I am not allowed to do/be any of those things in my FOO. I never was. Even though they can say and do whatever they like. And so it goes...

I hate that this stuff is back in my life and that I have to sweat about it. It's turning up in my dreams, which are dark. I'm not in therapy at the moment either because I ran out of money. Anyway, it's very helpful to write all this down, and thanks again for the responses.

BunnyLover

Please tread carefully - maybe he or one of his kids are becoming the replacement scapegoat and they need you back to take up your assigned role again. Maybe your mother is insisting he fixes this family rift and gets you back in the family scapegoat role, and making his life hell until he does.  Maybe your step-dad is taking an unhealthy interest in one of his kids. Who knows? Whatever is going on, the reasons he has for contacting you again are highly unlikely to be honest or in your best interests. Proceed with extreme caution and wear your emotional armor over your heart at all times!

Whosthtgirl

It's impossible for me to go NC. If I could, I would. In understand the temptation. If you continue, know it will be the same song and dance. Take care of yourself.
"A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles."  Christopher Reeve

Someone I loved once gave me a box of darkness. It took me years to understand that this, too, was a gift.

goodgirl

QuoteAll of that is waiting for me, if I so much as 'step out of line'. If I get angry or irritated, or criticize in any way, or even just indicate to my siblings that I am strong and independent. I am not allowed to do/be any of those things in my FOO. I never was. Even though they can say and do whatever they like. And so it goes...

I hate that this stuff is back in my life and that I have to sweat about it. It's turning up in my dreams, which are dark. I'm not in therapy at the moment either because I ran out of money. Anyway, it's very helpful to write all this down, and thanks again for the responses.

I believe you have just answered your own question. This is what awaits you. What motivation do you have to pursue this contact? I think you should step away again, maybe with the briefest "I've changed my mind; I think renewing contact was a mistake, and I will be going no contact again." And then BLOCK. I really think any other action is dangerous for you.

Frankie14

Quote from: BunnyLover on September 02, 2018, 08:27:12 AM
Please tread carefully - maybe he or one of his kids are becoming the replacement scapegoat and they need you back to take up your assigned role again. Maybe your mother is insisting he fixes this family rift and gets you back in the family scapegoat role, and making his life hell until he does.  Maybe your step-dad is taking an unhealthy interest in one of his kids. Who knows? Whatever is going on, the reasons he has for contacting you again are highly unlikely to be honest or in your best interests. Proceed with extreme caution and wear your emotional armor over your heart at all times!

BBM...

IMHO, personally, I wouldn't go near this one with a 10 foot pole..IMHO, because I have been there, tho not identical but similar circumstances, Brother is setting you up, maybe say you were the abuser when its dear old Step-Dad at it again...who knows, but IMHO, don't go near it...

I have a borderline-sister who also rules our family, she even convinced both of my en-parents that my 3rd child was either Down Syndrome or Autistic because she saw him once when he was 2 at the grocery store and said 'there was a look about him that was Ds or A'...needless to say this lead to both of my parents believing this, tho they saw my son monthly and there was nothing even remotely wrong with him (not that there is anything wrong with Ds or A).  It lead to my going No Contact with NS and that is going 6 years, I JADE with the ARGUE part so much during this time, I am virtually NC with both of my now elderly parents.  Disgusted with them for believing this mentally ill daughter of theirs OVER THEIR OWN EYES AND EARS...

To touch on the molestation issue lightly, I will recount a story of when I was in contact (VVVLC) with Narc-sister; my oldest DD is 3.5 years older than NS's son and 7 years older than NS's daughter; when my DD was 10 my NS said to me, with that evil smirk the narc's have and said I can't WAIT til she turns 18, and even tho I knew she was getting at 'something' I was like okay, I will see what it is; I said, "whys that?" NS said, because then her full name and age and address will end up in the police reports.  I said why would my DD be in the police reports 8 years from now, she is 10.  NS like a cat-that-stole-the-canary look/smirking/giggling said, Oh I don't know, she better keep her hands to herself...

My DH and I were thinking OMG, (and we had been thru SOOO MUCH with Narc sister and her lies for decades by this point, we know she would do or say anything); so we figured she is going to try to say our DD molested her son...or her daughter, but she IS going to DO something...

I made a mandate hence forth on that day when my DD was 10 that she was NEVER EVER to be around NS kids, we were VVVVLC and no longer invited each other to the cousins birthday parties.  But, my en-mother as a flying monkey used to ask me if DD could come over to spend the night, when she was 17 almost 18 and I was like well, she is grown now, sleeping over Granny's house isn't that much 'fun' for an older teenager, and the last time I picked my DD up at my mom's my niece was there, and I had not seen my niece in 3 years at that point, and I said what is niece doing here and my Mom said, "Oh you picked up early, you weren't supposed to know she was here," I said so niece also slept here (with my DD) and my mom laughing said yup, and I realized my mom was in on the set up.  My DD told me my mom told her 'to lie to me, and NOT say my niece was there).  So, to put it all out there, my own mother did not care that my NS was going to make up a molestation story launched against her OWN grandchild by her mentally ill (diagnosed/unmedicated) daughter.   

My DD has maybe seen my mother 4x in the past 2 1/2 years since then.  DD wants nothing to do with N-Granny or N-sister, and asked us to change her cell phone # two years ago so they will leave her alone.  My Narc sister would regularly pretend she was her son or daughter to 'get my daughter' to talk rudely about me, my husband, our other children.  We knew it was not my 8 year old niece asking her older teenage cousin about 'what does your dad do all day, where does he work, my parents HATE your parents, my parents say your parents are..."  for cousins barley in contact, it was not an 8 year old..(who didn't 'really' have a phone it was a # attached to N-sister's phone line account)...sick stuff..

DD 'got it' what "Aunt and Granny" were setting her up for and what grandmother wants their grandchild to lie to their parent???  Not for any good reason, eh?

Why would my 18 year old DD want to sleep over her grandmother's house with her 10/11 year old cousin, she barely knows?

But, long and the short...I wouldn't go near it if I were you.  My NC with sister for 6+ years, would never under any circumstances have anything to do with her.  Not a funeral, nothing, she can see me in court should she ever try any legal business with me.  I am as low contact as you can get with N-Granny, if she moved away from my local area I would never see her again.  I don't care.  Whatever fall out from extended family members for my LC and NC I don't care

Whatever blow back you get from not responding to n-brother...who cares, you only care about what YOU think, YOU are all that matters, not them.

I am sorry for your situation with your step-dad, its truly horrific and with all the healing you have done...I would let the email go unanswered.  And FWIW the Narc's kids end up hating you anyway, so why go thru it.  My Narc sisters kids both hate me and my husband and my children...and you know what, I don't care. I care about ME and my FOO..not some kids, I barely knew, that ended up exactly like their mother.

jdmelb

Thank you for all the responses.

I should have given more info in initial post. My parents died a long time ago, and my child-raping step dad died 3 years ago. Incidentally he was about to be arrested because of the charges I was bringing against him when he died. Timing. The intense, warped dynamics in my family have primarily played out among the siblings. No less horrid or intense, believe me.

Anyway, an update: I responded to my brother. I regret it. But I'm also glad I did, because it will eventually draw out all the old bs from him, and I think a part of me needs a confirmation that NOTHING has changed, and a reminder of how right I was to go NC. So I don't feel like I've undone all the good work.

However I do feel mild panic, and regret, and like I KNOW an iceberg is coming. There have been 4 emails exchanged, and already he has peppered in a few SG, power-playing comments. So I KNOW, from years and years of this stuff, that something big is coming. My older brother is an EXPERT at putting everything on me, painting me as the bad guy, lazy, selfish, mean, a failure. You name it. It's incredible what he's flung on me over the years. Few people would even believe the extent of it! (except on here)

He asked what I'm up to these days. I decided to be honest. I told him I am now a painter. He wrote back asking to see some of my work. In a moment of defiance and pride (and naivety) I decided to send him some pics of my recent paintings. He hasn't responded yet, but I KNOW it's the paintings that will tip him over the edge. I regret showing him. I feel like I exposed myself, shared a magic secret, and I'm worried I did it because of that horrible old SG role where you beg for scraps of acceptance from people who are never going to give it. But another part of me thinks: no, I did it to confidently show him I have my own life now, and I'm doing meaningful, creative things that he can no longer touch or impact. Maybe it's a mix of both, because hey I'm human.

Anyway, I GREATLY appreciate the responses. Will keep you updated.

jdmelb

Wanted to give an update for anyone who helped me or followed this thread.

To those who said: be careful, he's up to something. You were right. I still don't know exactly what happened. I sensed in my brother's 2 messages to me the same old manipulative, scapegoating, bullying, game-playing energies. Still that naive, lonely part of me dared to imagine things have changed. The correspondance petered out pretty quickly. He quite aggressively instructed me to make sure I keep him updated about my life going forward, which is a classic gesture of his. I felt the bullying. I felt the scapegoating (it's ALWAYS been me who's stuffed up in our family). I felt the judgment. So I left it there.

However, Christmas came, and NOT ONE of my extended family contacted me. I had remained close with a few cousins, and was still on the invite list for the annual extended family boxing day catch up. But last year, all of that disappeared. I reached out to my cousins. No response. I have no idea what my brother did or said, but I know him so well, and I know he is capable of anything. I feel confident in saying he told a bunch of lies about me being hurtful and horrible towards him when he tried to reach out. Me showing no interest in his family etc. It was really crushing, being Christmas and all, to feel those fresh waves of rejection, and to realise that, through no fault of my own, and through god knows what kind of underhanded, horrible game playing, the remainder of my family have turned away from me.

In a way I hope I never know what my brother said or did. And I guess if my cousins could go cold on me so easily, perhaps those relationships were due to run their course anyway.

I still appreciate the responses I got on this thread. They were very helpful. I hope everyone's doing ok out there. Cheers.

WomanInterrupted

I'd consider your limited contact with him as a Litmus Test that nothing has changed, you've *confirmed it* - and go right back to NC.   :ninja:

I used to run  "tests" when I was coming Out of the FOG, just to be *sure* what I thought was going on, was really going on, and I wasn't crazy, making mountains out of molehills, or misreading situations.

Any time I ran a "test", unBPD Didi or unNPD Ray would fail miserably, confirming what I already knew:  she's unBPD, he's unNPD, and the situation was hopeless.  I could NOT have a relationship with my own parents, because they thought of me as their personal SLAVE.   :aaauuugh:

I was VVVVVVLC and on the verge of NC when Didi died - so that put an end to *that* question.  That's when I began testing Ray - who gaslighted, rewrote history, and thought of nobody but himself, at any time, so I went VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVLC with him, rarely returned his calls, and long story short, he's incompetent and in a memory care unit, and I'm NC.   :ninja:

The nursing home staff *fully* supports me - they know everything I told them at the intake is TRUE, and he's a holy terror who loves to threaten people and try to punch them!   :stars:

I don't envy them - but it feels good that *they see it, they know it, and they support me.*  :yahoo:

I'm not crazy - I never was crazy.  As it turns out, *the child was the only sane person in that house* - the nursing home diagnosed Ray as *psychotic* and said he's probably been that way all or most of his adult life!   :aaauuugh: :aaauuugh:

Now I *know* for certain it was never me - just like you got confirmation from your brother that it was never you, and things never, ever change - except for the worse.

Take care of yourself!   8-)

You deserve it!   :)

:hug:

sandpiper

I stayed in my sisters's lives because I wanted to be close to their children.
It was a mistake and if I could have my time over I'd go full NC two decades earlier.
I think in hindsight that it is probably much more powerful for the Witch's Prisoners to know that somebody made it out of that hellhole and refused to go back out - it's a vision of Icarus ascending into the light.

Years ago I heard a radio program about scapegoated siblings who went NC, moved away & got on with living happy & fulfilled lives, and the psychologist commented that sometimes the most powerful thing you can do for those left behind is to give them a map of how to do it.
I stayed, and allowed my sisters to treat me badly, and they in turn taught their children to treat me with the same level of disrespect, and I suffered a horrible burden of angst because my uBPD sister did exactly what our parents had done. She used her children as hostages and if I was 'good' then she'd encourage them to be nice to me and if I wasn't being 'good' i.e. doing whatever the hell she wanted, whenever she wanted, and regardless of how capricious or selfish that was - she would encourage them to be horrible to me.

Unfortunately the children of the PD are their prisoners. I realised that there was nothing I could do to help them.
I made the decision to step away from that because investing in my family was a seriously bad investment of my time and my love - it doesn't give anything back, it's just throwing that investment away into a black hole.
I have been 'auntie' to the children of my friends and I've given up on my bio nephews & nieces. They are always going to be stuck in their parents's web.
If one of them ever does get out and go to therapy, the best thing you can do for them is to be a happy, functioning, wise adult, if and when they seek out contact with you when they are adults and they are trying to heal.
Most won't, though. They'll grow up with Stockholm Syndrome or else they'll be so heavily immersed in the family poison that they will just unthinkingly repeat the cycle, having no awareness of how toxic it actually is.