protecting against false accusations

[sevenyears]

How do you protect yourself against false accusations? I journal everything. In my jurisdiction, we are not allowed to record someone. During the divorce hearings, my stbxh uocpd denied and manipulated the truth. It's hard to expose him for lying because the judge views it as he said/she said. Next week, I have my first meeting with the GAL. Then he will have one too. At this point, I won't know what he says, but I am scared he will make up things to make me look negligent and that I'm incapable of caring for my children. He will also make up stuff that the children complain about me when they are with him. I don't know yet what that might be, but in my experience, he manipulates the truth. When I ask my lawyer for advice, she shrugs her shoulders and says that I should concentrate on making my case about why the children should stay with me. What's been your experience? Any advice?

[Whiteheron]

My stbx has done all of this. It is all he said/she said, so what we (my L and I) do is concentrate on the facts. It's hard for me, but we let stbx spew all of the nonsense he wants to, and any counters I make are completely factual. stbx has told nothing but lies, yet I can't prove otherwise. All I can do is hold my head up high and not stoop to his level...and hope like hell the judge doesn't believe him.
stbx has made up accusations of alienation, because the kids prefer me to him. He's told the court I watch my (then 13) year old son shower  . He claimed I still wiped my (then 10 year old) daughter's behind after she used the toilet. He said I smother the kids because I cut up their food for them (?!?!)...it was ridiculous. I should say, it is ridiculous. It's far from over. None of what he said was true, but I didn't have any proof to the contrary...but more importantly, he didn't have any proof to back up his claims.

I had to remind myself...this is what he has against me, this is what he has to show I'm a bad parent - made up stories and lies. But there was (is) no proof. Of any of this. Because it never happened. He can claim all he wants, but without proof, the judge won't (isn't supposed to) listen. To any of it.

I journal everything. When stbx misconstrues a situation, I give my L what I've written in my journal. What's been happening is that the longer this goes on, the more bizarre and nonsensical stbx's accusations have become.

The GAL will talk to your kids. He/she will be able to determine if either parent is negligent or incapable of caring for the kids. Your stbx can say whatever he wants, but the kids will be telling a different story. They are usually able to pick up right away if the kids have been coached. When you speak to the GAL, speak about facts. Situations, examples. No labels, no accusations. State your concerns and why (using a past example). Who takes the kids to school, doc appts, fixes meals, buys the school supplies, clothing, gets them ready at night, in the am...these are all questions I had to answer. The GAL can easily determine who is telling the truth by asking the kids the same questions.

My L also tells me to focus on what's best for the kids. I repeat the mantra in my head several times a day "best interest of the kids, best interest of the kids" and make sure that shines through in everything I do.
Advice: be stable, be rational. Fighting back against his false accusations will do nothing to make you look stable or rational, it will just make you look unhinged and vengeful. Don't stoop to his level. Journal everything. His accusations, your reaction to them and what actually happened. List dates, times, locations, who was present, as many facts as you can.

It's one of the most difficult things I've had to do. It seemingly never ends. I'm spent. I'm exhausted. I just want to scream. But that's his goal - to wear me down and make me look mentally unstable (as he claims I am...). I won't let him win. Not this time...hang in there and vent here if you need to. We are all here for you. Good luck!

[sevenyears]

Thanks WH for the dose of sanity and advice. I am stable, rational and sane. My uPD will do everything so that the courts, GALs, whomever, believe that he is the best thing/person for the children. When he speaks, he is very persuasive, while I am not a good public speaker, which is why I am worried.  Anyway, as you said, concentrate on the facts - especially the provable ones - and, on what is best for the children.

[Whiteheron]

Oh yes, same here. stbx can be an eloquent speaker at times and is very persuasive. I, on the other hand, have a mind that goes blank when someone asks me a direct question and I constantly stumble over my words. 

[atticusfinch]

sevenyears,

I am sorry for what you're going through. I will give you my two cents but I hope you know you're not alone.

Have you read Splitting by Bill Eddy? That is an excellent resource for dealing with this type of personality in court.

Here is what I try to focus on. First, make sure you keep your cool as much as possible (grey rock technique). Narcissistic types will bait you into responding in negative ways and then use that as evidence that you're the one who's unbalanced. If you remain calm, logical, balanced, and stay focused on the best interest of the kids, the NPD person will usually hang themselves with their own rope. Try to put aside your fear/worry, etc (I have to ask myself a lot if I'm still acting in ways that show I'm enmeshed with my PD ex, even five years on! Sometimes I let fear of what he'll do control my behavior, then I end up tense and defensive with my kids, which usually backfires. I try to have fun with them and be the best parent I can be and compartmentalize my ex's weird rages-- this is sometimes very hard, but I remind myself that there is no point in leaving him if he still lives in my head).

I documented positive things I did with my kids as well as negative things my ex did. I wrote down when I had friends over for a playdate, or volunteered at my kids school, etc.

If you're meeting with the GAL, solidify your concerns beforehand into your top three, but try to stay calm and focused on the needs of the kids. So you might say that you really want to support your child's relationship with his/her father, but you have serious concerns about your ex's unpredictable mood swings (then you can give an example of the most egregious thing he may have done), verbal abuse, etc. It is helpful if you show you're capable of seeing that your ex has some good qualities, but his seeming split personality, childish behavior, self-centered attitude, etc, gives you serious concerns about his ability to care for the children for long stretches of time.

Next, focus on things you can document that takes things out of the realm of he said, she said. My ex and I communicate only in writing and don't interact at exchanges (I stay in the house and vice versa), which means I have our communications all in writing. Hard evidence will help support your case, especially if you're documenting things on the side (things your child said, etc). If your ex acted in a mean-spirited way on one occasion, that is not something the court will worry about, but they will look for patterns. When I look back on my documentation, it definitely shows that over time my ex says some of the same things to my kids (that I'm trying to take all his money, for example) and acts badly at certain times. These patterns can be helpful when talking to your attorney or others, especially if you seem cool and rational and have the kids best interest at heart.

If you can keep the faith, the NPD behavior eventually shows itself for what it is, IME. My ex often did things that illustrated exactly what I was trying to tell the court (ie, I said he was controlling with money and devalued my role as a SAHM, and then he basically said I was worthless on the stand and argued for as low as possible support for me and the kids-- who he's claiming to love).

Hang in there-- you've got this.

[atticusfinch]

One last thing. After years enmeshed with the abusive PD, sometimes we might walk into an appointment like this still acting doubtful at times about what we experienced. It is good to look your best and act confident (even if you don't feel confident). It is okay to just state outright that he was abusive, without hedging around the issue, acting apologetic or showing that you doubt your own testimony. If you have to take a support person (even if it's just in spirit) to help you say the actual things that happened, or practice with someone first, then I say do what you need to do to stay in your own head.

You've got this!

[KFel024]

Dear sevenyears,

Like others have posted, please do your best to stick to the facts as you remember them, stay as calm, cool and poised as possible and hope for the best.  Judges are there to analyze/interrupt what is laid out before them.  He said/she said in commonplace.  Hopefully, you have a solid lawyer that specializes in helping people in your situation.

Try not to worry about what others are doing or may do (i.e. lying, coaching children).  Stick to your guns and the facts.  Hopefully, truth will be recognized and also set you and your children free.  If public speaking is nerve racking for your, please try closing your eyes and letting your heart speak for you.

I recently had to sit next to my npd partner in court in front of an audience and a judge.  I did not look at, make eye contact with, nor acknowledge them by their name.  However, I did do my best to be both candid and non-judgmental in my testimony.  Stuck to the facts and let the rest ride with judge.  Stinks, but is what it is.       

[findjoy81]

I have to continually remind myself of all everyone has said in this thread.  I know it logically, but man, is it hard to live in sometimes!  I start to spiral inside my head and want to respond and "set right" everything. 

But I KNOW judges don't want hours of he-said/she-said BS.  I know judges want facts and evidence.  Otherwise it's just hearsay.

So, all our communication is in writing for documentation purposes.  I do not interact otherwise.  No phone calls, no chatting at pick up/drop off...  (Even when he sat right behind my new husband and I at one of our kid's play, SO uncomfortable! I allowed my other child to choose where to sit - with dad or mom - and otherwise just IGNORED him).

And I pray for TRUTH to be revealed (sooner than later...).  I rely on believing the more insane stuff my ex tries to spew about me, especially without proof, the more crazy/paranoid he will look. 

[Elsbeth]

When I ask my lawyer for advice, she shrugs her shoulders and says that I should concentrate on making my case about why the children should stay with me. What's been your experience? Any advice?

Let me expand the wording of what your lawyer said, and see if this will work for you and give you a sense of control, confidence.

Write down all that you do for the children in their day to day, and all you do in maintaining a HOME (not just providing a shelter, think intangibles) and all that you do by actions to be a role model for your children .... in other words, write down and be prepared with concrete examples from past and current, your worth as a parent.  Think of the parenting as a job, and what you are bringing into court is your definition of that job, your role in that job, and your experience doing that job.

Talk about YOU.  And you can even say to the GAL that your ex and their actions you can speak to but not their character, as you can only talk to your children about actions. An example I like to use to help solidify that concept is this --- mommy/daddy picks you up on time from school. mommy/daddy leaves work/home early so to make it on time as there are lots of cars and traffic. --- contrast that to the mommy/daddy that arrives habitually late for parenting time. you speak of arriving late and waiting and if traffic is used as the habitual excuse for coming late, then the proper response is yes traffic can make us late so we plan to leave earlier as we know this time of day and route has traffic for the most part.

good luck. and no amount of finger pointing at the other will help. after many years, i have concluded that for another person to see the constant, never-ending game playing of a NPD, only occurs when they've experienced such behavior themselves, otherwise I think they cannot process in their minds the never-ending depths of NPDs.

[Findingmyvoice]

Document as much as you can.
Force them to put things in writing, don't have conversations on the doorstep or on the phone.
Play by the rules.
Train yourself to look for inconsistencies or contradictions in their stories and then point them out to your lawyer.
A sharp lawyer will be able to pick up on these things.

Read Splitting: protecting yourself while divorcing someone with borderline or narcissistic personality disorder.

[hhaw]

Sevenyears:

Please calm yourself by remembering that the PD can't prove any of his false accusations. 

Don't allow him to scare you into doing anything that appears irrational, or off balance.  He's GOING TO TRY TO BAIT YOU INTO ACTING IRRATIONALLY.  Don't take that bait.

Accept you're going to be disproving negatives in court for a while.  That's your reality.  Judges like proof.  They like things to add up, and make sense. '

This means your case needs to make sense too.  I wish I'd have only spoken about and alleged those PD behaviors and crimes I could prove.

I wish I'd built my case ON THAT EVIDENCE.  When we blather on about the things the PD is doing and saying, we sound unhinged many times.  Consider this as you put your case together.

Your case will be child based, and you will depend on your witnesses, evidence, and documents to help the Judge understand the truth. 

If your PD is doing things like driving while dunk with the kids in the car....... raging at the kids or leaving them without supervision..... consider hiring a good Private Detective to GET THAT proof FOR YOU.

If there's nothing a PI can help you document, then try to steer all communication with the PD to emails and texts you can copy, and use.  If you can't avoid face to faces... and he uses those to frighten you, make threats, or behave dangerously, make sure you have a witness in place.  Witnesses have to be believable.... so no family.  Maybe a neighbor.... retired nurses are super competent, IME.  They tend to get what we're dealing with.   People who have no skin in the game are better witnesses. 

Don't let the PD know you're trying to document his behavior, if you haven't already.   

Don't miss an opportunity to document....  keep notes he leaves, and do your best to ask for support from a few competent individuals that can help you through this.  Retired neighbors, babysitters, anyone who can witness the behaviors, and explain it might be important to you.

About your attorney shrugging.... that's unfortunate, but common, IME.  Remember your attorney is only a tool, and you're the one putting together your case.  Once your attorney sees your evidence, one your PD accuses her of lying, or jerks her around by making her look foolish.... she might get angry at him, and begin advocating for you more vigorously. 

Be patient with her.  State facts..... allow her to contradict you, then don't rub it in when you're right about the PD, and she's wrong.  Honestly, she will likely take it personally, and work harder to help you bc of it. 

I'm trying to say that..... just bc your PD does scary stuff that makes you feel unsafe doesn't mean that behavior won't backfire on him, IME.  Very often they overdo, overstate, and overreach so important court officers SEE what they're doing. 

Honestly, the subtle PDs can be more effective in court. 

Know that people will let you down, unexpectedly, in this situation, but also know that some people will step up, and do the right thing.  Not bc they have to, but for the right reasons. 

Your PD will convince some of the people some of the time, but he won't be able to convince everyone at once, IME.  This means you have to stay level headed, and not move the spotlight on your actions. 

This means that the people who SEE him will likely act, and do the right thing in court, but there are rules to these things:

1.  Always speak about your PD with compassion... he's unstable, but also the father of your children.  You want him to be the best father he can be, and you're going to support him in that mission.  That said, you're also the mother, and you're going to protect your children as priority..... but you deliver that message with compassion, and reasonable desire to enable good parenting for your childrens' sakes.

2.  Don't let your amygdala get the best of you.  It's better to calmly state your points with economy of words, then wait till you're asked for more information.  We tend to blather incoherently when we're fearful.  We tend to jump down one rabbit hole and into another.... which makes us appear unstable, IME.  You can work on speaking more calmly.  You can write out your speaking points.... based on your evidence..... I pretend I'm speaking to a child in order to keep my voice level, language clean, and statements uber simple, and short.

3.  You want to present a helpful demeanor.....  if opposing counsel, or the Judge asks an infuriatingly stupid question..... like WHY WOULD THE PD DO THAT TO YOU?  Treat it as an opportunity to educate your audience....you're calm, consistent, helpful mom, and you're there to focus on your children's best interests, and educate.  EDUCATE in a helpful, calm manner that....

4.  Avoids speaking with expectation.  You want to calmly state your facts, have the documentation to back them up, or witnesses, then allow your audience to come to their own conclusions about what they should think or do.  It's a huge mistake the tell people what they must do and think.  Abandone expectation, and work on lowering your shoulders, and noticing when you're eyes are going wide, and wild...... check yourself, you can ask for water, or a break when talking to your attorney, at deposition, in court, or on the stand..... you have to be mindful of how you're doing, and learn to get yourself calm, and back on mission.

THe mission is to protect your children, and mitigate the harm the PD does.  Forget good choices, bc you're dealing with bad and worse choices in these situations. Just lose the hope, and mourn the loss..... get on with making peace that this is your life for a good while.... maybe a year or two..... and document your case as a priority..... keep your kids out of the adult conflict as you can.....

tell them that mommy and daddy are going to be apart, but everyone is going to be OK, and they don't have to worry about it.  This is adult stuff, and the adults are handling it.  The kids have their own jobs, and that's school, grades, chores, and finding their passions.  They don't have to worry about the adult stuff, even if the adults sometimes slip up and forget that.... the kids have permission to ignore it, and go back to their own stuff.

If you speak with compassion for your stbx ALWAYS, the kids will be more likely to speak honestly with you about the situation at their dad's house.  You can validate them, speak their own words back to them without emotion, and make sure they feel heard without gasping, or judging or forgetting to speak with compassion for the PD.

I hope the kids are in Therapy.  I hope your attorney remembers children are involved, and need her advocacy.  All court officers can become jaded and bitter, bc they see this stuff.... are covered up with it all the time.  They're overwhelmed. 

Make their jobs easier by presenting the best darned case you can present.  Save your energy for that purpose, and don't waste it wishing and mourning things you can't change. 

Eye on the ball.  Get to the exit as quickly as you can.  Plan for court, bc PDs typically are pathologically unable to SETTLE ANYTHING.

What that means for you is..... you're heading to trial, even if the attorneys and your stbx are talking setttlement... they always do..... you have to go through those motions, have your bottom line list IN HAND, and be ready to stand firm on those points always. 

Don't fear going to trial.  It's expensive, and trial prep is difficult, but it's usually the only way out, so lean into it.  How this works, IME, is everyone spends hours working towards settlements, sometimes the PD SAYS they agree, then attorneys go back to their offices with one chosen to draft the order.  Attorneys spend more hours bickering over details till more hours are spent, then the PD says he wants to go to trial anyway.

You have to appear willing to settle so your attorney and the Judge don't punish you.  You also should work toward limiting time spent in settlement discussions.  That means you put forth a reasonable plan, with that list with bottom lines draw, and you get to it quickly as you can, then withdrawl from discussions once the PD says NO enough times.

IF THE PD SAYS HE AGREES, have that Agreement hand written out in the room, and signed by all parties right then and there.  Otherwise, there is no agreement, and you should ask for a trial date politely, and with a calm, efficient demeanor.

Remember.... people are going to try to talk you out of your bottom line.  Your going to remain child centered in your responses and reasons for sticking to your guns.  Always stay focused on the kids and what's best for them.  It's harder for people to lean on you when you do this.   Your own attorney, and the Judge might lean on you to give in, bc they realize you're the only reasonable litigant in the room, IME.  Just keep advocating for the kiddos, speaking about your stbx with compassion, and focus on the mission.... striking a not terrible deal, with an order you can enforce through the courts, hopefully with parent communication through Family Wizard, or e mail, or texts for documentaiton purposes.  Get out of court as soon as you can. 

I'll say it again... don't fear court.  You're going to get out of this more quickly if you get to the courtroom quicker, and spend less time trying to settle... .which you have to pretend you believe will happen... your attorney doesn't want to go to trial.  Your attorney doesn't want to do trial prep.  Your attorney doesn't really care about your kids, and likely neither does the Judge so this is about you staying the course, asking for reasonable things, appearing reasonable, and willing to settle, but leaning into that court date, and not giving up that date until an Agreement is signed.... just hand write it out, and do it at the settlement hearings... it's done all the time.  THey can have it filed and stamped, and it's a done deal.

What you want to avoid is wasting all your resources on settlement discussions then having nothing left for trial.

Trial isn't your enemy.   It's the friend of those who have evidence.  The harsh light of the courtroom can be the PD's worst enemy, IME.

Be present with your children.  Start new traditions.... bake with them.  Go fishing.  Laugh, and fly kites.  Don't question them, and pour anxiety into them..... find a way to protect their nervous systems.  Help them develop resilience, and support around them at school, and with friends. 

[mrstring]

My ex was very much like that. It was hard to do, but in hindsight just focus as others have said on the facts and the truth. Even though they are persuasive, eventually they will get tripped up if they are lying. I hope this helps. Also focus on specifically what you want, they tend to try to steer into muddy waters.

[sevenyears]

Thank you everyone for your advice and support. I haven't been checking in for a while, so it is really heartening to read your thoughtful and experienced responses. I am trying to document as much as possible. Unfortunately, I don't have witnesses other than family. One of the problems I tried to explain during the divorce trial is that much of my stbxh upd's behavior happens at home and not in public, or at least not where anyone we know is around.  I spoke to the GAL last week and presented my case. He also spoke with the GAL separately, so I don't know what he claimed. I predict that he tried to make me look like I am unhinged, and negligent. And, that is probably not the least of it.

The next step is a joint meeting of the two of us with the GAL next week. I have told the GAL that I have tried to be flexible in the past to find agreements, and unfortunately, he hasn't be cooperative or compromising. I will also come prepared with several parameters that I can except. But, as some of you wrote, I don't expect much. The chances of a settlement are slim to none. So, more court it is....