A dilemma with school

[sonto92]

i have been posting recently about some of my 15y/o son's struggles with school.  Last time I checked his grades, 5 out of his 7 classes were under 40%, with 2 of them under 10% - safe to say failing - really badly.  i have tried to address this with my BPDx over the last 2 years now and it has been like running in to a wall.  Any time a third party has been involved, she puts on her second face.  Last spring we had a meeting with our family therapist and I brought a handful of his work in and said that he is consistently lying about the work getting completed - no acknowledgement of it and no suggestions from her how to remedy it.  Last fall, I ponted out the grades in a message on OFW and she said "not true, they are actually getting better", which they weren't.  Had a meeting to discuss this with son's therapist back in October with therapist, BPDx and myself in the room.  BPDx acknowledged his bad grades and said as a consequence, we told him he had to quit his job and focus on his schoolwork - but he never quit his job.  About 2 weeks later a buddy sends me a text and said he saw my son at work.  Fast forward to December/January.  We discuss having 15y/o screened for ADD, a referral is made and they call me to schedule.  I tell BPDx about the appointment and she says she is opposed to having the testing done and cancel the appointment.  I bring the ADD testing up again in another meeting with son's therapist and BPDx in January.  She tells therapist she doesn't want the screening done because then he (son) will use this as an excuse to not do his work at school.  During this same session, my BPDx is sharing with everyone in the room that my son might attend an alternative school - something I have heard nothing about prior to this meeting.

I say all of this because I had messaged my son's counselor at school to address his academics in a meeting before school.  The counselor had passed this information along to my son - this information went straight to his mom, and now his mom wants to attend this meeting because "that's what you call co-parenting" (her words).
Bottom line - I don't want her there because 1. I never get a straight answer from her about school - and - 2.  I am not there to debate whatever philosophy she feels is best for our son and school.  I teach school and I had a discussion with my principal about what I am legally able to do, and I can request a meeting without having her present.  He also suggested that i notify the administrator of the school about it prior to the meeting.  I am looking for any feedback or experience with this.  My BPDx is asking the date and time of the meeting and I haven't responded to her yet.  Uggh!

[Associate of Daniel]

I'm sorry this has slipped down the page a bit, Sonto92.

I unfortunately can think of no advice, other than to keep your meetings with the school seperate from your ex wife's.

I hope my response will bump your thread up a bit and get you some suggestions from others.

AOD

[Stepping lightly]

Hi Sonto.  I would say to keep your meeting private if at all possible.  I think you have enough proof that BPDx is not on board with getting to the bottom of the problem.  DH had an experience like this with a parent teacher conference.  It was actually in the order that he had permission to do it separately, but BM found out about it and demanded to be there.  I mean raged and threatened.  He refused. 

For the record, I give you a ton of credit for everything you are doing for your son.  You are waging a major battle to help him, and that's no small thing.  It is so apparent how much you care about your son's well being, and I believe that someday...some point...he is going to understand the mountain you've been climbing for him. 

[anxiousmom]

Sonto,

If you can legally meet with the counselor solo, I would do that, and encourage BM that she too can set up a time to meet with counselor herself. Bet when it's on her to do by herself, she won't do it. The biggest mistake I made in dealing with my exBPD was giving grace thinking it would help our co-parenting relationship. It did nothing but further his entitlement mentality that he somehow "deserves" all the things I've bent over backwards to do for him and now we're in court because he's suing me for more custody. If I had it to do all over again, I would have enforced the boundaries available to me, and if you are within your right to meet separately, I say you flex that muscle (carefully), and meet by yourself.

Best of luck to you! It's not easy!

[Magnolia34]

Schools should absolutely honor your request for a private meeting. They know how family dynamics can get and do it all the time! I think Anxiousmom is totally correct and if left to do it herself, your BM won't go through the effort of having her own meeting. In my experience, the only reason our BM attempts to attend those things is so she can argue with DH.

Needless to say, we're in an almost identical situation with DSS17. It's heartbreaking because he was on a really good track the last 6 months. BM is hoovering DSS and it seems like we're back to where we started. He likely won't graduate, and if that happens I'm worried that he won't graduate AT ALL. The alternatives are all much harder than what he's doing right now.

Obviously, only share what you're comfortable but I would love to know how you proceed. We're at a total loss over here.

[cant turn back]

I am so sorry to hear of your situation.  Mine is similar with my 15 yo daughter (though not at this level).  It's tough to think what will come out of a meeting if your BPDX isn't there.  Surely the counselor will make recommendations however, your BPXW will probably have to give her agreement for services or to make changes.  And, if you do something behind her back, she likely sabotage it, overtly or covertly.  I recognize the same problem exists if you try to do the meeting with her there as well, she won't agree to anything and will nix every idea presented.  Doesn't the family therapist have recommendations that are discussed as to educational matters with only you and BPDX in session?  Does she just ignore this and do whatever she wants anyway?  Does the therapist meet with your son privately?  I really don't have much advice.  I'm in the thick of it too and I frequently wonder myself how to best deal with it.   I don't have the benefit of a therapist as an ally because my ex sabotaged that, manipulated the therapist and our DD15 so that our to DD15 was totally opposed to going to see the therapist (there is way too much dirty laundry that my ex doesn't want exposed).  My ex did schedule a meeting with the Chemistry teacher last September without informing me (his good guy mask well afixed) only to have the Chemistry teacher invite me to the meeting herself when we met at Back to School Night, unbeknownst to her I was unaware of the meeting.  (Karma!). This was, and still is, absolutely maddening to me, I would never schedule a teacher meeting without inviting him.  I have always been the primary educational parent, signing things, coordinating things, helping with homework, etc, yet, with his good guy mask he wants to suddenly jump in as though he is in tune and involved, which, you know, that's fine, but DON'T EXCLUDE me.  Still really pisses me off just thinking about it, only because my ex was NEVER involved at all before.  That being said, after this meeting I did sign my daughter up for weekly tutoring (she had two D's and a F) without consulting my ex because he makes everything harder than it needs to be and I dread speaking to him to open up a dialogue in which I would have to deal with his mean spirited lopsided logic.   He said "I asked my lawyer and she said I could meet with the teacher without consulting you, but getting a tutor is a decision that I need to be involved in".  He did threaten to get his lawyer involved, but he never actually did it (classic of him, threats to try and scare me).  My daughter balked but her grades were so poor that she did eventually get on board, somewhat, though she hated it every week and made excuses to not go.  It's so hard when they get a different message from the other parent, negative reinforcement.  I'm the parent who says no and gives consequences, my ex is the good time guy who seems to go along with whatever our DD15 wants.  (His fragile self esteem can't risk actually parenting our DD15).  I have kinda resigned to accepting it and realizing I am playing the long game, fighting for what's best for DD15 even if she doesn't agree or see it now.  Developmentally, as a 15yo girl, I don't think she gets it, she just thinks I expect too much, which further aligns her with my ex.. the easier path to take for her.  Again, I don't think I have any productive advice, just... I get it, and I'm sorry you're going through it.

[sonto92]

Thanks for the feedback on this acc1984 and can't turn back. 
Acc1984 - you really hit the nail on the head with the underlying issue concerning a shared meeting with my BPDx.  She would be there to argue every point I tried to make and the focus would be on me rather than on our son - I know this because this is always how it works - deflect and distract.  Meanwhile, our son is still failing and nothing happens. 

can't turn back - you have also hit this right on the mark as well.  You mentioned "My daughter balked but her grades were so poor that she did eventually get on board, somewhat, though she hated it every week and made excuses to not go.  It's so hard when they get a different message from the other parent, negative reinforcement.  I'm the parent who says no and gives consequences, my ex is the good time guy who seems to go along with whatever our DD15 wants.  (His fragile self esteem can't risk actually parenting our DD15).  I have kinda resigned to accepting it and realizing I am playing the long game, fighting for what's best for DD15 even if she doesn't agree or see it now.  Developmentally, as a 15yo girl, I don't think she gets it, she just thinks I expect too much, which further aligns her with my ex.. the easier path to take for her

This is the root of the problem for my son as well.  Developmentally he just doesn't get it.  My son and I made some progress last year to get him turned around with getting his work done and shifting his attitude towards staying on top of his work.  My son was at my house on the weekends and we would crank out as much work as we could.  I was emailing his teachers and they had specifically said these "weekend blasts" were going great and that my son was feeling better about getting his work finished.  I was consistent with him and we made some progress towards the end of the last school year.
The other point - very well made - is that my BPDx's fragile ego doesn't allow her to parent - as long as she is letting him do what he wants and he likes me and hates his Dad everything is going well.

[Magnolia34]

Sonto92, your last sentence is key. School aside, DH was working with DSS to try to help him come up with a plan for post-graduation (IF he graduates). DSS is interested in the same field as DH (who owns his own business) and DH was going to allow him to intern and help with projects. This would give DSS a look into the field, lots of experience, and he could maybe go to school at some point. BM must have gotten wind of this and now all DSS will talk about is how his mom is going to get him a job where she works. He'll make $15/hour and "basically won't have to do anything." So, great. Let's encourage an already under-motivated kid to take a dead-end job because he can be lazy and get paid for it. BM would rather "win" and hurt DH than encourage her child to do something that he would enjoy and could give him a chance at a future. It's just so frustrating. I'm so sorry you're dealing with all of this. You're doing SO much for your son and, if you're anything like my DH it has to feel like you're just constantly getting the middle finger for your efforts. 

[sonto92]

Acc1984 - I had an interesting conversation with this therapist that I am working with right now to try to get my 15 y/o son involved back in my life.  I have met with this person twice and it always seems like there is so much ground to cover.  The therapist was talking about my son's trouble at school, what do I feel it is going to take to get him back, and lastly - what do I value as a parent?
We had this talk about my values as a parent, and the therapist, in a roundabout way, asked me if i would be able to have a relationship with my son where he just comes over and hangs out like a friend - we don't talk about school, or the 18 y/o girlfriend, or any of the other pressing issues.  It was tempting for me to say to the therapist  "Yeah I can do that - I can have that kind of relationship with him where we don't worry about that stuff".  The nagging part of my heart knew that I can't do that, and I told her so.  I am always going to be his Dad, and if I made the decision to ignore these problems, it would go directly against the things that I see value in as a parent.

The therapist also said what many other friends on this forum have mentioned already - when he's old enough, when he's ready, he will be able to see things more clearly.  So ... hurry up and wait.

[anxiousmom]

The therapist also said what many other friends on this forum have mentioned already - when he's old enough, when he's ready, he will be able to see things more clearly.  So ... hurry up and wait.

We can all relate to that frustrating feeling so much. It is so disheartening waiting for that moment, not having any assurance that it will happen, but having no choice but to continue knowing our children need at least one stable, good parent to teach them. I feel you.

[athene1399]

Sonto,

I am so sorry you are going through this. It sounds very frustrating. I would agree that you should tell your ex if she wants to speak with the counselor then she can make her own appointment. It sounds like she derails every meeting you are at so it would be nice to get done what is on your agenda without having to deal with her. I am also proud of you for being honest with your T about not wanting to be a friend, but a father. It takes a lot of guts to say what is really on your mind instead of what you think others want you to say. And I know it hurts right now to see what is going on with your son, but one day he will look back and see how hard you fought to improve his life. And you are doing it all for him and not yourself.

[Magnolia34]

Sonto,

We go back and forth with that EXACT conundrum. Do you back off, let the kid make his own mistakes and wait with open arms if/when he's ready for a relationship? My DH has the same internal conflict you do. How in the WORLD do you not do EVERYTHING you can to help your child? As a step-parent I think I have a *little* distance and perspective and I really do worry that by pushing, DH is only going to increase the gap BM is creating between he and DSS. But I understand and respect positions like yours and my DH's. Maybe there's some kind of middle ground? We have a good family friend who grew up with a mom who had a PD. He essentially abandoned his father in favor of his mom who disappeared when he was young and showed back up when he was a teenager, basically telling him to pick between her and his dad. He said it really did just click one day.

[hhaw]

The truth is our kids are going to have to make mistakes, and deal with the consequences... there's no way'round it.

If they get these lessons earlier, before girls, and cars, and more dangerous activities begin, it's better.

If your son doesn't learn his lessons now..... later is not likely to be better. 

How many of us had to learn after marriage, and children? 

I have to say that my children are light years ahead of me regarding life experience, and knowledge about PDs, unhealthy patterns, boundaries, and consequences.  They'll always have reference points that are sad, and unfortunate, but provide an amazing bounty of information most of us don't have access to till we're in the thick of dysfunction.

He didn't choose his FOO dysfunction, but he can use his experiences with it to learn.

You're modeling healthier relationships and boundaries.  His mother is modeling something else.  Your son knows being ordered to DO and think and say something, or else, feels bad.  Trauma bonding with his mother is going to be an issue he has to deal with sooner or later.  The missed school may be a cry for help.  I don't know. 

Your job, at this point, might be to validate his experiences.  Your job, Sonto, might be to let him know you believe in him, and trust that he'll make good decisions for himself. 

Sometimes just knowing we care, understand, and aren't standing in judgement all the time opens the relationship, and promotes growth, IME.

Sometimes we listen, repeat back exactly what our young adult child is saying, so they feel heard, and can then begin to hear us.

As long as the mother is railing against you in all things.... as long as your son is made to feel defensive for this young mother, who he likely believes he loves, he won't be able to see straight.

I think you have to consider dropping the rope, Sonto, accept visits again, and trust your son will brim with honor that you're expressing confidence in him..... hope he rises.  He very well may.  Dropping the rope  might lead to dialogue about his mother, and the family dysfunction that's behind his school troubles, IME.

The school isn't that important, at least not when you look at the damage dysfunctional families DO to our kids.  Your son needs better coping strategies, the ability to speak honestly, and not be punished for it.... MOM not finding out he betrayed her with the T or with you.... and support in his struggles, IME.  Think of what your son has seen modeled as "family."  Think of the constant conflict his mother creates, and puts him in the middle of. 

Even if he has to attend summer school... even if he flunked out.... the important thing is his mental health.  His being in treatment is a fraction of the story.  It's the entire family unit that should be treated when PDs are involved.  The important thing is to step back, really SEE your son, and not get sidetracked by "the right thing" bc that right thing feeeeels so right, but it's not always where our energy should go, IME.

I get it.  I've been there.  I've had to walk miles in those shoes, and I'm right back there, in fact.... dd18 is in danger of not graduating bc of missed school days.  She's just now talking about what's going on in school, and asking for Therapy for specific issues I couldn't suggest myself, bc SHE has to be the driver of her own boat now. 

I know you want the best, and you're doing what your heart and mind think are right.  Just remember..... the missed school days are a symptom, IME.  They aren't the problem.  The problem is the PD mother, your son's struggle with that, and anything you do and say just gives the mom more energy, and ammunition, IME.


How he's doing in school isn't the real issue.  His mental health is.  I know what it's like to help a kid limp through a school year, and just get through.  My dd and I did that, and just when she was about to get by, she stopped, said she needed something else... to DEAL with her trauma, and history, and that's what we did.

I remember trying to get my child to attend classes, and just limp by that year.  Little did I know we were about to embark on an Odyssey of intensely painful family therapy, that needed to happen.  Very quickly those school absences were put into perspective..... not important in the scheme of things. 

I won't go into it, but there was a year of Wilderness Program, and Therapeutic Boarding School we were lucky to have access to, and we met so many other dysfunctional families, heard their stories, and the kids had a lot in common. 

IF you can work with this T to forge a deeper bond with your son, validate him, help him understand that he's worthy, and capable and trusted.....that he has a voice, and will have agency in his own life....  that may accomplish the same thing our year accomplished, which was treating our entire family, not the "identified patient," my daughter.

It's inconceivable that our children DEAL with PD craziness in their lives, experience symptoms bc of it, and then they're identified as the one with the problem.  Your son needs help figuring out what he's dealing with, where his mother begins and he ends, how to put healthy boundaries in place, and enforce them.  He's not able to do that with his mother... she's likely trauma bonded him to her.  That's really disturbing, and the symptom of missed school is the tip of that iceburg, IME, in many of the families we were in T with.  Lots of similar stories, with kids traipsing down similar paths. 

I think you're lucky your son is allowed to go to a T.  You're lucky that you can worth with that T, without the PD completely taking over or firing her if she can't.... and work with your son.  You're the consistent, responsible parent, but he needs something more at this time, bc he's in danger of failing in school.  That's a symptom, IME.  It's not the problem, and I've made the mistake of identifying it like it was in the past.  I get it.  Been there. 

You can be too right.  You can be set on the right goal at the wrong time, with the right child.  The PD dysfunction in your family is inside your children.  Some kids are more resilient.  Some develop healthier coping strategies.  You have a chance to engage your son, and walk with him through this really challenging time in his life.  I'd consider doing that, on the T's terms, if it feels right in your circumstances.

Good luck,

[sonto92]

I did schedule the meeting last week with my son's counselor at school - without my BPDx.  It went very well and we discussed some things to put in place at school for his academics.

On a side note - i went in to this meeting to talk about school with his school counselor.  I have had several posts as of late about my 15 y/o son dating an 18 y/o with a baby and the struggles I have had with getting a straight answer about this from my BPDx (my son is living at his mom's house right now - has been since last July).  Midway through this academic conversation, the counselor says "your son ever talk about a girlfriend?"  i fill him in a little on the situation.  The counselor follows this up with "I'm asking because your son came in to talk with me a week or so and was talking about how his "baby" had said her first words  .  Long story short - as much as BPDx refers to this girl as a "family friend", four different people have confirmed to me that this girl is indeed his girlfriend.  This conversation with the counselor at school was just Friday morning.  I have been mulling this over all day about whether or not I should say something about it to the BPDx.  I have already let her know what my position is on this with 100% clarity.  BPDx is still sticking to her guns that this girl is a "family friend"  and I don't know what I am talking about - I've got all of my information wrong. 
I know I am not going to convince my BPDx  of anything.  Part of me is thinking that a BIFF message of what the counselor mentioned during the meeting would be the extent of the message.  To play devil's advocate here - taking these steps would probably put my son at odds with his counselor at school almost immediately, because you know BPDx would tell him what he said.  Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated.