Grandparents and 'identity'?

[Entj]

Hello everyone

We are currently very low contact with the narcissistic mother-in-law and her enabling spouse. This means we visit 1-2 a year when we go to our home country. The idea was that we expected that NMIL should be able to behave like an adult for a couple of hours a year. Turns out this is not the case unfortunately.

Last time we visited, she gave our kid the cold shoulder and only gave attention to the cousins. My husband tried to make her give attention to our kid, she said 'the kid doesn't know me' and turned her head to the other side. The kid is 2 years old, so thankfully didn't understand what was going on. This is a pattern I've observed, she's pitting DH against his brother too, so it's the same tactic just used in a different generation.

After this I started pushing for no contact, as I cannot help thinking what happens when our kid is a bit older and understands what's going on. Why should DS feel rejection by his grandmother? Why should I allow any further contact, if MIL cannot treat a 2-year old with decency? We can handle the manipulation, the guilt tripping, the nastiness, but why put a child in this position?

We had a big fight over this, as DH didn't want to drop this 1-2 times a year. I asked him what his motivation for keeping contact is. Mine is to protect our soon, what is his? After the fight, we had a conversation about it again, where he admitted that he was being selfish and it was just a convenient way to keep his mother happy and avoid trouble with her.

He said during the fight that he wanted 'not to deprive our son from his hereditary identity, he has a right to know where he came from' and he later told me that that was his therapist's words. What do you think about the identity argument? In my view, no grandma is better than an evil one. I've changed quite a few psychologists, because they were all insisting that DS needs to have contact with his abusive grandparents. But I'd like to hear more opinions on this too, do you think having a grandparent is necessary for our child's identity? Even a controlling, manipulative, lying one? 

[Rose1]

Is the plan cultural identity? If so that can be shown in many ways. Food, music, dance, language.

If the plan is family identity then imo do we really need to perpetuate the pd behavior onto another generation?

[Call Me Cordelia]

Your DH really is invested in this contact... traveling out of the country regularly is a big commitment of time and money. I think you are asking the right question about why it's so important to him. What does HE need from his mother? Can he work that out while you and DS stay safely away?

I can't help pointing out... if he wants to avoid trouble with his mother, that should be fairly easy to do from another country. There's something deeper imho.

I feel your pain in that my DH also believes he needs something from his parents. What finally worked for us with regard to the children was the idea that if they are too toxic for me, of course I don't trust my kids to be around them.  But as far as our children are concerned, if it's a no for either of us, it's a no. Both parents get "veto power." This principle applies to anything involving the kids, even as simple as giving them a cookie. If one says no, it's a no.

DH is an adult and can do his own stuff. I no longer discuss his parents' current goings-on with him, unless I actually need to respond or if I'm giving DH props for maintaining a boundary. Stuff that would be fairly innocuous, like they went on a trip or something, I just don't care. He hasn't planned to visit them on his own yet, although he has pre-Out of the FOG. I think he's figuring out it would be a minefield.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Oh, and the whole "identity" thing sounds like so much projection. It's DH's identity we're really talking about here. If DH cuts the apron strings, who will he be? It's a thing we're supposed to figure out in adolescence, but ACONs generally aren't allowed to. It's also kind of narcy to be assuming DS needs to have the same identity as DH. Kind of an extension of self thing going on.

[candy]

I am with Cordelia, the hereditary identity thing sounds like a unhealthy projection.

My NPDMIL announced our kid was her flesh and blood. I remember it gave me the creeps. She then concluded she had a say in the kid's parenting, spiritual education and likewise. No. Just no. She is the grandmother, not the parent. She does not get to decide.

Grandparents do not give their genes or their flesh and blood, they are - hopefully - not involved in the act of procreation. What grandparents can give is intentional, they can give their time, their affection, their love, or they withhold it. It is a choice they make. And if they are not a fit, it is the parents' duty to put the kid's needs first.

I imagine someone telling an adoptee about hereditary identity that goes back to grandparents. Wouldn't that be an ugly thought? Like the adoptee was missing something?

And how shall we stop the cycle of abuse if we apply such an awkward standard of identity? Bloodline sounds very medieval to me. At least it sounds unhealthy.

I support you in changing therapists. You are right. There is no need for contact with abusive people. There is no need to expose an innocent child to abusive grandparents. This is BS.

[Fiasco]

Oh, and the whole "identity" thing sounds like so much projection. It's DH's identity we're really talking about here. If DH cuts the apron strings, who will he be? It's a thing we're supposed to figure out in adolescence, but ACONs generally aren't allowed to. It's also kind of narcy to be assuming DS needs to have the same identity as DH. Kind of an extension of self thing going on.

I think Cordelia nailed it. Grandparents aren't where your child comes from, they're where dh comes from. When your ds is a teen/adult and expresses an interest in where dad comes from is an appropriate time to share his past if your dh wishes.

[Entj]

Thank you all for your responses, really good to get a different perspective!!

I agree on DH projecting about his identity on our child, thank you for making this clear. The additional problem is that that was his therapist's argument  The therapist has also said 'do not cut off grandparents unless there is abuse going on'. To which DH on our last discussion said himself 'well, there is abuse' and concluded it is an invalid argument. Of course the problem with the FOG is it comes and goes...

The reason I believe him on this being the therapist's argument is because I had several psychologists telling me the same thing, that I should not cut off DS from his grandparents, because they are 'a part of his family', 'a part of who he is' and other similar arguments. Personally I have dropped all psychologists that were against me cutting off the grandparents on grounds that I do not think they understand personality disorders and abuse. I would not insist on DH changing therapist, because I am not sure he can find someone well-versed in PDs - I haven't and 5 therapists later I gave up with the search.

Thank you all so much for your support and for weighing in on how our identity has nothing to do with the blood line. After so many therapists insisting on not cutting off toxic grandparents based on a similar argument, it's tough to not start thinking I'm the crazy one!

[all4peace]

I think you will make the choice that works best for your child and family. I will say, though, that if you only see someone 1-2 times a year they're unlikely to have much impact on your child, either way. Your attachment to your child, and the way you model love and connection, will have a far greater impact on your child than his unhealthy grandparents.