When/how to raise concerns about sleeping arrangements at NPD dad's house?

[topaz]

My son, 5 years old, splits his time between me (with my lovely second husband/DS's stepdad) and his dad, my ex-H (diagnosed NPD). At our house, we have a lot of trouble getting my son to go to bed in his own room and to sleep in his own room all night. Bedtime is always a time of heightened anxiety for him (needs constant reassurances that doors are locked, that I'll wake him up on time, that I'm just going to bed and not doing anything fun, etc), and middle-of-the-night wakeups always lead to him sleeping on the floor of our room.

These are all frustrations that any parent of a five-year-old might have, and we generally try to follow parenting best-practices that you might hear about anywhere. Sometimes, especially when DS is with us for longer stretches, we see progress.

Lately, there's been serious regression. When we ask, "How do you do bedtime at Dad's house? Is it a problem there too?", he says, "Oh, it's ok because at Dad's house I sleep in his bed. Sometimes we fall asleep on the couch together when we're watching tv and snuggling and then we just go to bed. I only have to sleep in my room when [new girlfriend] has a sleepover." (The sleeping problem regression at our house just about overlaps with [new girlfriend]'s arrival on the scene.)

exHNPD has, in the past, said he sees no problem with sleeping in the same bed as DS, and has basically insinuated that it's cruel for my husband and I to insist on a regular bedtime for DS (before ours) or for us to close our door at night.   

DS is very clingy and touchy and snuggly, and while these qualities can all be good, it's also true that at bedtime as well as during other times, he literally cannot stand being in a room by himself. Again, probably a normal developmental issue we all deal with with five-year-olds, but how do I convince exHNPD that (a) this is a problem and (b) we should present a united front on helping DS learn to be comfortable with doing things (eg sleeping, playing by himself) on his own? I know that this might be impossible, given that exHNPD doesn't seem to have this capacity himself.

I guess the real question is: Is there a point when I should bring this issue up in court or to a GAL? I don't think that exHNPD is viewing the sleeping arrangements sexually, but there's something off about it to me, and the extended "snuggling" seems different than, say, comforting a child after a fall or sitting together to read a book. As my husband (currently training to be a therapist) notes, "It might not be sexual from [exHNPD]'s point of view, but it's confusing to DS at this stage of development, and it's certainly not helping with the clingyness problem. And wouldn't you feel even more uncomfortable if we were discussing a daughter? That level of concern might not be unwarranted even with a son."

Thoughts/commiserations welcome...

[Penny Lane]

Hi topaz! Boy can I commiserate!

We had a fairly similar situation to you a few years back when my DSD8 was about your son's age. I am now the stepmom but back then the dad's girlfriend. I think a lot of the factors were similar though the details aren't exactly the same: The kids had been cosleeping with both parents before and after the divorce, they had a structured bedtime routine at DH's house but none at their mom's house, and both parents were dating which disrupted the cosleeping. (He and I had actually been dating for quite awhile but we waited a long time to do any sleepovers. A lot of these early problems I more saw from afar than was actually involved in.)

These problems played out similarly too: Both kids would get anxious at bedtime, they'd insist on sleeping in DH's room and even if they weren't allowed to they'd come up in the middle of the night. They even would ask the same kind of stuff as your son about whether DH (and later the two of us) were doing fun stuff without them after they fell asleep! DSS, now 11, in particular was very worried that DH was leaving in the middle of the night to go have fun somewhere else, which is not something that ever happened. And like you, if they were with him for an extended period of time the problems seemed to calm down a lot.

It sounds like your DS probably isn't in kindergarten yet? These problems changed somewhat when DSD went to kindergarten but I wouldn't say they necessarily got better. She was exhausted all the time because of the unpredictable bedtime routine at her mom's house, and that created problems at school and otherwise. But also that exhaustion made it easier for her to fall asleep (to a problematic degree, like, regularly fell asleep at dinner) so the problem wasn't so much the bedtime anxiety anymore.

Here's what DH implemented to combat all those issues: He redoubled bedtime structure and decided there are pretty much no exceptions to bedtime on school nights. We now start the dinner/homework/bathtime process pretty early to facilitate that. Once bedtime rolls around DH lays down with each kid briefly to chat about their day and help them fall asleep. In the middle of the night if the kids do come to his (now our) room he walks them back down to their rooms right away to fall back asleep there. He also gave them each a flashlight to keep near their bed so if they wake up scared they can see around the room. And we never really stay up to do "fun stuff" without them - not even watch a movie. If anything we just chat for a little a bit before going to sleep ourselves. He also makes sure to do other normal stuff that's recommended when kids can't sleep, like start winding down early and no screen time before bed. Those things didn't help right away but he slowly made progress. Nowadays bedtime is a happy time rather than a stressful one and the kids' anxiety at bedtime appears much, much less frequently.

I will say that when they regress, it pretty much always corresponds to a time of high stress/conflict on BM's part (she gets fired, she's breaking up with a boyfriend, etc.) So now that DH has gotten that routine established, we treat backsliding more like a symptom of serious stress than trying to just address it specifically as a bedtime issue.

My guess is that your son is pretty stressed about the new girlfriend's sleepovers. I think my stepkids' bedtime changes a LOT depending on their mom's relationship status. When she's single or on the outs with her current boyfriend, it seems like she keeps the kids up late to entertain her. So that could be what the extended snuggling is about and why it gives you such an uncomfortable feeling - it's more about your ex's supply and inability to be alone than what's good for your son. But when our BM has a boyfriend over she puts the kids to bed early and watches a movie or does other stuff they think is "fun" with the boyfriend. If something similar is happening at your son's dad's house, he's probably feeling confused and unsure of his place in his dad's life and just overall anxious about change that doesn't seem very good to him.

I know that DH has historically had very little success in getting his ex on the same page about bedtime, or really anything. Like your ex she won't even acknowledge that having bedtime structure is a good thing (or that being tired at school is a bad thing). The one success he's had was at one point when BM was in an especially productive phase and I guess the bedtime issues were getting in the way of her doing stuff after the kids went to bed, so she suggested taking the older kid to a counselor over it. DH signed DSS up for a counselor and BM immediately started fighting him on it (hah). But the counselor did give some good suggestions, a lot of things DH had already done or suggested she do but it seemed like she listened more when it came from the counselor. It's been a little more than a year and I'm not sure how much of it has stuck, but it can't hurt that she got some strategies from the counselor. Do you think it's possible to involve a counselor for similar reasons? If nothing else maybe you could get some tips for bedtime anxiety at your house.

It does seem that now that the kids are older a lot of these problems have subsided - kindergarten was really the peak of the issue. I'm not sure BM is doing much different than she was three or four years ago. But I do think the structure at our house helped, combined with just DSD needing slightly less sleep than when she was in kindergarten. (She still comes back tired but there are less serious meltdowns and she catches up on sleep much faster.)

As for your question about court, I don't know how involved GALs usually are. But from DH's experience in court I can't imagine the judge would have been interested in hearing concerns about snuggling (other than sexual in nature type concerns). I'm not sure you'd be able to get either the GAL or the court to do anything about the snuggling in particular. I do think, depending on how it works, the GAL might be more interested in hearing about how he's rebuffed your attempts to get on the same page about bedtime. I think especially if you suggest going to a counselor and he refuses - that's something that maybe an outside party could step in on. Really though, at the end of the day, I'm not sure the court could do much to put an end to it. Your ex could be ordered to go to a counselor but a court can't MAKE him care more about a consistent bedtime than his own needs. It might be that you just have to get really serious about bedtime/treating anxiety/general structure at your house and hope the benefits outweigh the problems with bedtime at dad's house.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this too and that your ex is so unwilling to do the right thing. It's so hard to watch your son struggle when you KNOW his dad could do something to fix it, but won't. The best thing you can do is be consistent for your son when his dad won't. Hang in there!

[topaz]

Thank you, Penny Lane! It's helpful to hear that it does get better, and to be encouraged to stick to our relatively-strict bedtime schedule even though sometimes it seems like there's two steps forward and one-to-three steps backward...

I think you nailed it when you said

I think my stepkids' bedtime changes a LOT depending on their mom's relationship status. When she's single or on the outs with her current boyfriend, it seems like she keeps the kids up late to entertain her. So that could be what the extended snuggling is about and why it gives you such an uncomfortable feeling - it's more about your ex's supply and inability to be alone than what's good for your son. But when our BM has a boyfriend over she puts the kids to bed early and watches a movie or does other stuff they think is "fun" with the boyfriend. If something similar is happening at your son's dad's house, he's probably feeling confused and unsure of his place in his dad's life and just overall anxious about change that doesn't seem very good to him.

I don't like seeing my DS being used as his dad's supply, especially knowing first-hand how confusing and and unstable that feels. It's like I want to tell my NPDexH, "He's not just your doll, to dress up and show off and use for your own comfort when no one else is around! He's his own funny little person!"

I think my ex would fight about taking DS to a counselor, but I do hope that if when DS starts kindergarten and his teacher raises the issue of sleepiness or clingyness, my ex might be more willing to make changes suggested by a teacher. He's way more willing to hear and accept information from a third party he trusts than from me!

Thanks again.  

[Penny Lane]

I just love this:

He's his own funny little person!

Your son is so lucky to have a parent who sees him for who he is! That will go a long way in helping him navigate the confusing and unstable (like you said) situation at his dad's house. It sounds like you're a really good mom!

[pony]

I don't know. Some families co-sleep. Some do not. We practiced co-sleeping/extended breastfeeding/family bed so sleeping with a five-year-old doesn't seem off to me. I would be upset if he slept with a non-related adult—step-father or girlfriend.

[openskyblue]

Certainly, kids have their nightmares and illnesses, but a five-year old should be able to go to bed in his/her own room and sleep through the night there with no difficulties. Having a consistent bedtime ritual is an important transition of the day and help regulate mood and behavior -- for kids and for adults. IMHO, your exhusband is removing an opportunity for your son to achieve an important developmental milestone, putting oneself to bed at night and sleeping. Being able to do this isn't just about sleep -- it's also about separating oneself as an independent person.

At five years, have a  bedtime, a bedtime ritual (having a bath, getting a book read to him, etc.) is what most kids need to feel in control. Watching TV or a movie before bed is too stimulating for kids and only inhibits the ability to relax and drift off, so the snuggling in front of the TV thing is really not helpful to a bedtime routine. To me it seems reasonable to bring up the bedtime conflicts with our ex with the GAL.

[topaz]

@pony - Right. I think part of my confusion about how to address this is in the fact that I know it's not necessarily weird for a five-year-old to sleep in a parent's bed, since there's a range of perfectly healthy sleeping arrangements for different families and different cultures. Just because it's not what I choose for what happens at my home doesn't mean it's necessarily "wrong".

What makes it feel "off" is my NPDexH, whose absolute inability to be by himself seems to be rubbing off on DS, whose preschool teachers say he needs to "work on doing projects on his own", and who exhibits a sort of anxious clingyness that goes beyond a natural extrovert's love of company. ("Alone time" is easier for some than others, I know, but it's an important skill to learn for everyone!) And it does feel like what's important to NPDexH is that someone (either DS or new girlfriend) is sharing HIS bed, so DS's sleeping arrangements are especially inconsistent without NPDexH seeming to care.

I know that co-sleeping can be a way to build healthy attachments, but I guess I wonder if that holds true more for healthy parents. It feels concerning for parents who have deeply disordered personal attachments themselves, especially when it's not done with any thought behind it other than the PD parent thinking, "I'm lonely and want company when I sleep."

@Penny Lane - Thanks! DS does have such a funny strong personality, but he's treated so much like a little doll or mini-me clone by his dad, and I'm worried about how his dad will react when, someday soon, DS's own unique preferences might conflict with his dad's desires for him.

[openskyblue]

IMHO, co-sleeping with kids might work out when kids are very young toddlers, but it becomes a real hassle by the time they are older than that. Also at some point kids have to learn to sleep on their own and master that step of independence. Before you know it, your son will be invited to sleepovers and later overnight class trips. Being able to sleep on his own with be a prerequisite to both.

[pony]

Topaz, I hear you. I've thought about this and the switching back and forth within the same house (depending on the presence or absence of the gf) would be too confusing for a little guy.  I'd aim for stability at home and encourage a bedtime routine plus attachment to a stuffed animal or blanket that would bring comfort when he is away from you.