House rules or boundary violations? Going through my drawers and other issues.

Started by Marya, March 10, 2019, 04:11:35 PM

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Marya

Recently, I discovered that I had mold in my apartment and for that and a number of other reasons, I had to move out asap.

I found temporary housing in a place that rents rooms to women, and is run by nuns. It is attached to a convent.

The nuns are mostly very sweet, but in the last few days or so I have been getting what I worry may be "red flags" from one of the nuns, and I wanted to see what others think.

It started when I asked if they could please not spray this strong cleaning chemical in my room that leaves an offensive odor for hours on end. I offered to purchase a natural product for them to use instead. (They clean the room every day, except Sunday.) The cleaning girl was kind, and said no problem, but the nun said, "just open your window." :Idunno:

This seemed like a bit of a devaluation response to me, as though she was not taking my concerns seriously and brushing them aside. But I let it go as the cleaning girl was on board, and was fine with using a different product.

Then, on Saturday morning I saw her when I opened the door to my room. She was in the hall. She asked if I was going out (as they like to clean the room) and I said no, that I was tired.

At this, she walked into my room and pointed to a little pile of items that was gathering on my window seal and suitcase. She told me to clean this up.

Well, hmmm.... it was getting a little sloppy in that spot, so she had a point, although I was not sure if she had a right.... but then, she walked over to my desk, and told me that I needed to clean my desk.

At this, I was confused. On my desk I keep some vitamins, a bottle of water, some rocks from my rock collection, a clock, a lamp, and a fake candle. It was not a pig pen, just obvious that someone lives there and is using it.

She began instructing me to put my vitamins in the desk drawer, and put the other items away. Then, she walked over to my dresser and began OPENING every single drawer! Including my underwear drawer.

She pointed inside each drawer, basically telling me that it was messy and that I needed to "organize" it. Yet I was bewildered, as the drawers did not look messy to me at all! I roll my clothes rather than fold them, as rolling helps cut down on wrinkles, so perhaps she did not understand that and the rolled clothes just looked messy to her....but regardless, I had no idea how she had any right to tell me how to keep my clothes.

Then, she opened the closet portion, where all I had was a coat, a few sweaters, and on the floor a pillow, a bottle of detergent, and some plastic shopping bags. She insisted this too was a mess and needed organized, but to me it was not a mess at all! Maybe the shopping bags could have been better kept, as I just toss them in there, but other than that, there was hardly anything in there to be a mess.

She also found fault with the fact that on top of the closet portion I had a roll of paper towels, a brush, and some baby powder. 

All in all, I was left standing there in complete shock. I understand that she is a nun, and she is an old nun, so she is probably used to this sort of thing on her side of the situation. After all, nuns have to do what they are told, and they do not have much privacy. I can see them being instructed on how to fold their clothes, keep a room clean, etc. Sort of like in the military.

But I am not in the military, and I am just an adult renting a room from them in the portion of the building that they rent rooms to other women from.

Well, when she was done, I decided that since she had made so many demanding requests, I could make one reasonable one of her. I asked her if I could have a new towel, as the one they gave me smelled like vinegar. But instead of saying yes, she kept insisting that it was clean until I dropped it.

This seemed like the third huge red flag. Making demands on me, but not responding to reasonable requests on my end.

So, I wanted to post here and see what others think given the situation.

Are these the red flags that I think they are, and if so, any thoughts on how to handle it?

Thank you!



StayWithMe

QuoteThe nuns are mostly very sweet,

Not sweet enough.  under normal conditions, these women have violated probably every human right I can think of.  Certainly a right to privacy is one of them.

OTOH, I don't know if signed away certain freedoms to be able to stay there.  Are you apying to stay there?  If so, is it cheap enough to make this agro worth it.  I am not sure what you can do.  If you complain, they may kick you out and I assume that this place is at least safer and cheaper than other alternatives you have at hand. 

Or I could be cheeky and say, well it could be worse:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_Laundries_in_Ireland

Hope you get your apartment straightened quickly and maybe someone else has some better advice.

clara

I grew up around nuns, having had 12  years of Catholic schooling, and most of them were pretty good, a few were great.  However, there were some who were sticklers for the "rules" almost as if they were an officer in the military.  I think part of their behavior came from how they were treated in their convent (it seemed to be more common in the older women) but also if they have a tendency towards OCD which I suspect would be exacerbated if the person was in a social structure like a convent.  Normally, the behavior would be seen for what it is but they may have been rewarded for their OCD because someone who was obsessive about neatness and (perceived) cleanliness would be praised and valued.  That may be the issue, hard to say.  It may also be because she has the need to be "in charge" and has targeted you as needing special attention.  What you're actually doing isn't the point, the point is for her to have some complaint to make against you for you to correct and do better.  Of course, with people like that you never will be good enough because otherwise they'd lose their perceived authority over you, so they keep coming at you with various issues for you to deal with.  Complaining about what they're doing won't really work because they don't believe anything is wrong with them--the wrong is with you. 

Since you're basically living in their space, they probably view you as part of their community, subject to their community rules.  Does this nun have a superior you can discuss her with?  You don't have to make accusations or anything (because a superior will likely become defensive over a member of her order) just explain the situation in calm tones, keeping to the facts, and see how the superior responds.  If it appears she's going to defend and take the side of her fellow sister, there might be nothing you can do except deal with it until you're able to get out.  I know it must be maddening, but you have to put your welfare first and do what's best for you even if that means putting up with the situation until you can find something else.  Don't let them force you into taking action not to your benefit just because of one problematic nun!

Marya

Thank you StayWithMe and Clara for the replies. I appreciate it!

StayWithMe, I did not sign anything to stay here. They just told me I could have a room, and I paid them.

Clara, I understand what you are saying about nuns. That is sort of along the the lines of what I was thinking, which is why I wanted to ask if their behavior was still out of line. When you are dealing with someone who lives such a different lifestyle, sometimes the lines can seem blurred.

If I was renting from a regular person, and they started telling me how to fold my clothes or where to put my things, it would be so obvious that they are out of line. But when a nun does it, you have to wonder if it is just that such attitudes have become the norm to them and so perhaps you should give them some leeway. That maybe it is not so much dysfunction as it is an acquired way of thinking related to their own rules. But then the question remains, how much leeway to give them? When do you stop saying, "ok, I can overlook that because you live a very unusual life and so this has probably effected your judgement when dealing with regular people," and start saying, "no matter what life you have lived, this is just dysfunctional."

I do not live in their space though, and so they do not see me as apart of their community as far as I know. They have their own private quarters that I never go into. They just also have a building where they rent rooms to adult women, but this is separate from their actual living areas. I do not have to follow any of their rules that make up their community life, or attend any of their services. I just have to be in by a certain time at night, not make a lot of noise, and a few other minor things.

It helps to hear such feedback, so thank you both again! Like I said, being that it is nuns it is hard to really tell when the line is being crossed into dysfunction and when it is not, so feedback really helps.

StayWithMe

QuoteThey just told me I could have a room, and I paid them.

I am wondering whether due to receiving money for their services, are they regulated by the county or the city.  YOu should try to pay by check next time or get a receipt just in case you ever need to prove that you paid for the services that you got.

Marya

Quote from: StayWithMe on March 11, 2019, 04:33:43 PM
QuoteThey just told me I could have a room, and I paid them.

I am wondering whether due to receiving money for their services, are they regulated by the county or the city.  YOu should try to pay by check next time or get a receipt just in case you ever need to prove that you paid for the services that you got.

They do give me a receipt when I pay. I think they only take cash, but that is a good idea to try a check. I do believe they are regulated by the city or county, as they have those official signs in the rooms like what you see in hotel rooms, which tell you the rate and has contact information (including an email) to what looks like a government entity. (They also rent rooms by the night if they have them open, to visitors.)

Swarley

Marya, in your place I think I'd seek out the Mother Superior and ask -is there is a list of rules you perhaps missed receiving a copy of when you moved in? Are room inspections customary? Are there specific standards posted somewhere as to how rooms are to be kept and belongings stored? Hopefully she'll want to know why you're asking, which is your opening to relate the incident with the older nun. It may just be a bit of confusion over "roles" here- you're their tenant, in effect a paying customer, not a novitiate.

ETA: Is there a lock on the door? Because I'd definitely put that in use.

Marya

Quote from: Swarley on March 12, 2019, 06:52:01 PM
Marya, in your place I think I'd seek out the Mother Superior and ask -is there is a list of rules you perhaps missed receiving a copy of when you moved in? Are room inspections customary? Are there specific standards posted somewhere as to how rooms are to be kept and belongings stored? Hopefully she'll want to know why you're asking, which is your opening to relate the incident with the older nun. It may just be a bit of confusion over "roles" here- you're their tenant, in effect a paying customer, not a novitiate.

ETA: Is there a lock on the door? Because I'd definitely put that in use.

Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions! Those are actually really good ones. A smart way to handle it.

My guess is that I could also email the government agency listed on the wall, and ask them if this is legal. I noticed that the email is also for "complaints...." so..... an option there too. But then I would have to say something akin to, "I emailed this agency and they said what you are doing is not legal," and who knows how the nuns would respond to that.