The challenge of Cluster C

[Pepin]

I have been struggling lately with the realization that PDmil is more of a Cluster C (DPD) with some Cluster B traits.  I was raised by and went NC 11 years ago with NF who is classic Cluster B.  It has been a challenge to apply what I had to do in order to move on from him -- and it seems to not have worked as well with PDmil, especially since she is technically more Cluster C.  And it doesn't help that my DH enables her because he is still kind of in the FOG.  I find it challenging as an empath to have compassion for PDmil....especially considering where I came from and what I went through and how hard I had to unlearn the damage NF created for me.  While PDmil may have had her own past trauma (and in response is Cluster C) I have no tolerance for any kind of bad behavior -- especially as an adult.  For as long as I have known her she has behaved from a place of smothering and immaturity.  At first I was flattered with the smothering since I am motherless and had a horrible father....but then I understood that what she was doing was actually a form of control -- trying to carve out some relevance in the life of her son as he was no longer just a son, but a husband and a father.  She people pleased for both attention and played the waif card so that DH would be forced to cater to her...which I find really gross.  When the kids were younger I did appreciate some of what she did at the necessary times, to help out, but she never stopped and clearly overstepped what she was doing and it was uncomfortable to get her to stop because then she would complain about being a burden.  UGH! 

Like any other adult, PDmil has had choices all along to stay in stride with her age and her peers but she chose not to.  While she did make some big hurdles in her life that were life changing, she decided that once she got to that place, that it was pointless to set new goals and aim higher.  And for that reason alone, she became dependent on literally everyone around her.  If her children were helping her learn something, she would never try to understand and take over and say I GOT THIS like most parents would do.  She just gave up and said I cannot learn this.....and y'all know what I am talking about.....basic things from running a home, to paying bills, making repairs, scheduling activities, mail, car repair, etc. whatever it is that most adults easily do.  DH has told me over and over that she could not do certain things because they were poor....and I feel like that is such a massive rug sweeping for the truth.  Even if they were poor and then moved on from that, it didn't change PDmil's perception of things.   

Sorry to tangent....thoughts all over the place.  I am having a hard time setting boundaries with PDmil as a Cluster C because DH finds it offensive.  I find it offensive that he cannot admit that his mother needs help and has needed it for a very long time.  Now that she is so old, there is not much to be done other than to be patient with DH and to deal with my own grief about it. 

I am saddened that DH holds his mother so highly -- and honestly I was hoping that I could learn some things from her -- like about life since I had never had a mother around growing up.  All I learned is that PDmil is just another person to take care of like a child -- except that she is incapable of maturing.  It is weird to accept that my teens are more advanced than their grandma...they have outgrown her and never really clicked with her -- which bothers DH a lot.

So yeah....Cluster C has been so difficult to deal with  -- helpless and they know exactly what they are doing.

There seems to be so little info out there on dealing with Cluster C. 

[P&K]

I feel so much of your struggle and realize I am in a very similar situation.
Lately, I've taken to telling myself my pwpd is very mentally unwell and likely can't help themselves. Their poor choices are really all the best default solution they know and it's been enabled over decades. I'm not a bad person for having the feelings I do and like you, really struggle with badly behaved adults. I know I am ultimately just hurting myself because they can't see outside their perspective and then label me as a cold or difficult person who won't see the error of my ways.
I wish I had more to offer you. You are strong, kind and take care of your own

[11JB68]

Yes....my uPDh is most likely cluster c...ocpd. I do think these have their own challenges...especially because maybe we feel more that we should have empathy/sympathy for their anxiety/fear...maybe there's more of a sense that if we just did x for them, or were better in some way, that they would behave better... It takes many attempts to realize this is not the case. Using the toolbox is the only thing that helps.

[Pepin]

Their poor choices are really all the best default solution they know and it's been enabled over decades.

I do think these have their own challenges...especially because maybe we feel more that we should have empathy/sympathy for their anxiety/fear...maybe there's more of a sense that if we just did x for them, or were better in some way, that they would behave better... It takes many attempts to realize this is not the case.

Both of these make so much sense.  The enabling for decades is likely something that will nearly be impossible for them to undo since it is their learned core -- and yes, we have empathy for them because we wonder: how could they do that to themselves?  I believe that this is exactly how my DH is stuck with PDmil.  He was groomed and parentified from a very young age....being made to feel guilty for PDmil's shortcomings.  He was made to believe that family loyalty meant FOO.  PDmil demonstrates this by keeping her inner circle tight.  I suppose I could do the same and am happy to play that card as the need arises...because my FOC is my inner circle at the moment and I will continue to hold them close.  And when my children are adults, DH will be my inner circle with my friends.  PDmil will never have a place in my inner circle since she is unable to offer me a place in hers.  I am not here on this earth to bow down to anyone. 

I often feel that DH thinks that if he behaved better or set an example, that PDmil would get it....but for decades he has been doing this and she is unable to change.  She absolutely cannot live without him; her dependence is extreme...and sad.  Not a role model for women at all.

[sevenyears]

Yep - I hear ya. I feel like Cluster C PDs are the invisible set. They are not as openly dramatic or horrifying as As and Bs. Instead, it is like living on a film set where things appear "real" but are just a little bit off. Hard to notice at first. It is only after day in and day out for years as they chip away at your sense of self and at your reality that you begin to understand that things are off and that it's not right and that you begin to see their manipulation and control. But, try explaining that to an outsider like a judge and they just don't get it. "Did he hit you" - "no." "Did he call you bad names" - "He told me again and again that I'm irresponsible." "Did he threaten you" - "he locked me out of the house twice in one month and blamed me for it." "Then, where is the abuse?" - "He yelled at me again and again and again." STBXH: "I never yelled at her."

Like you, Pepin, I kept thinking if I just... he would ..... Only to be disappointed again and again because he didn't. He doesn't - or won't - recognize that he has a problem. 11JB68 summed it up well.