NPD signs I missed?

[musttryharder]

I'm reasonably sure at this point that I'm dealing with narcissistic abuse from my wife. I've written about that before, but I've been thinking about the early days of the relationship and some possible red flags that I missed - not that it helps, but I suppose I'm building a case in my mind. I wondered if the more knowledgeable folks here could tell if these actions fit the profile (all stories she willingly told me from her past):

Passing bad/stolen checks
Her ex was the devil himself
Out of all biological family, she got along with one out of six (from childhood on)
Abandoned a pet (rather than surrendering)
Had an affair with a married guy
Got drunk and crashed her car because her sister was dating a guy she liked

These are just the ones I remember (and that she talked about). They were written off as mistakes of youth or that she was the victim each time, and I was already deep in the relationship (having moved a long way), so I had every reason to believe her. No, of course, I look back and wonder about the facts of all of those incidents. I've read that people with NPD have very thin skins yet lack empathy and always think of themselves as the victim.

[Whiteheron]

What helped me figure out stbx's behaviors was to print out the 100 traits and highlight each one he had. I wrote examples in the margins if I remembered a situation that supported the trait. He had(has) over 80 of the traits. Some I didn't realize until it was pointed out to me by posters on this site. Based on the traits and google research, my best guess is he's a mix of NPD/BPD with some traits of ASPD and PPD thrown in for fun.

There is a video by Kris Godinez on youtube where she goes through the different types of PD's - mainly borderline and narcissistic. I found it very informative. I think this is it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrliA9VXU1A#action=share

Looking back, I missed a lot of red flags, including not getting along with close family, no friends, numerous previous relationships, evil ex, strong need to control through guilt, victim to just about everything. I could go on and on. In hindsight, I can see the truth about most of the things on the list, and I can make educated guesses about the others.

[musttryharder]

Interesting - I will do the same exercise with the 100 traits, and of course check out the video.

[Poison Ivy]

Identifying NPD signs can help you build a case but doing so might also result in you feeling bad about yourself (as in, "look at these red flags! I should have seen them! It was my fault that we stayed together so long!" etc.).  So be careful how far down this path you go.

[musttryharder]

That's certainly a fair point, and to be honest I've probably already gone there once or twice. Someone told me recently that it's completely normal/human to see the good side or overlook things when you're in love. We all have our flaws after all. Those words of wisdom have stuck with me. I just feel like I need to be 1000% sure that I'm dealing with a narc, so I can look back in five years and know I did the right thing  by getting out.

[NoVoice357]

Hello MTH,

We all have our flaws after all.

I agree that we all have our flaws. It is not always easy to tell if someone has an NPD. From my own experience, it is not only about a particular behaviour as listed in the 100 traits but also the motivation behind it. An NPD perpetrator and a non PD may have similar behaviours but different motivations. While the NPD may do something to manipulate/hurt/punish a victim, the non PD will do the same to protect himself. Another example, victims who have been smeared by a narcissist may have lost their job, may be isolated from family and friends and they may find themselves without a support network. They are not necessarily PDs.

I just feel like I need to be 1000% sure that I'm dealing with a narc...

If so, I would consult with author H G Tudor, who has been diagnosed with a NPD and helps survivors of narcissistic abuse.
Knowing the Narcissist (narcsite.com)
You will find "Narc Detector" on the menu.
This blog is full of helpful information. You can ask him questions below any of the articles. His books Red Flags and Black Flag include 50 warning signs each.

Hope this helps.

[openskyblue]

My exhusband was diagnosed first with NPD, then sociopathy. Believe me, I've spent my time going back over our relationship, his life history, etc and been stunned by the red flags that I ignored. I think going back and reassessing, as painful, scary, and embarrassing as it is, is a part of coming Out of the FOG. At least it was for me.

I think the most important part of my exhusband's character that I came to understand was that he has no belief that rules apply to him. Laws, regulations, manners, you name it, he does not believe that they apply to him. This is why he can do the things he does--break laws, be abusive, not pay taxes or debts, lie. That is all for other people, not him!  And those of us who comply are suckers, people he is justified in using and abusing. Once I understood that my exhusband could do basically anything to me and our kids and justify it in his mind, I could open the door and leave. I have not looked back.

[Poison Ivy]

For me, too: "Once I understood that my exhusband could do basically anything to me and our kids and justify it in his mind, I could open the door and leave." In my situation, my former father-in-law, to whom my ex-h chose long ago to tie himself and his finances (ours, while we were married), also displays this behavior.

[KFel024]

I think the trick here is to determine whether or not you are/were in a healthy relationship. If the relationship was unhealthy, is probably best for you to reevaluate what you want/ed to get out of it.

The best recourse in dealing with npds seems to be getting out sooner rather than later and going as NC or as minimal contact as possible.

Hope you find peace in your situation and best of luck to you. Take care.

[NewFreedom]

Passing bad/stolen checks
Her ex was the devil himself
Out of all biological family, she got along with one out of six (from childhood on)
Abandoned a pet (rather than surrendering)
Had an affair with a married guy
Got drunk and crashed her car because her sister was dating a guy she liked

Some of those sound very NPD to me, but a pattern of risky behavior is often associated with other PDs over NPD. It is common for individuals to exhibit symptoms of more than one PD as well, so keep that in mind. The lack of empathy, victimhood, and deceitfulness can be NPD related. The drinking, car crashing and affair with a married person sounds a little BPD too. All PDs are very manipulative, which often means lying, cheating, and unstable relationships.

Also, DSM diagnoses include a general category of "personality disorder not otherwise specified" where an individual can exhibit signs and symptoms of many PDs but not fit the criteria for one in particular.

I'm speaking as a professional counselor, but also from personal experience. I would encourage you to read through the descriptions of the PDs on this site, as they are direct from the DSM.

Hope this helps.

[musttryharder]

I'm speaking as a professional counselor, but also from personal experience. I would encourage you to read through the descriptions of the PDs on this site, as they are direct from the DSM.

Thanks for your reply! I've actually looked at the DSM definition of NPD a few times, and I can be sure of 4 of the required 5. I suspect that others fit but I can't be sure of those. Of course, I'm not qualified to make that call in a meaningful way. Having just checked the BPD definition, I can really only be sure of the impulsive behavior. That has been an ongoing (but not regular) occurrence in her life. A dear friend of mine has BPD, so some of those other symptoms are very familiar to me, just not from my wife.

Perhaps this isn't as useful as I thought when I first started this thread. It's as if I'm looking for absolution before leaving. I do want to understand, though. I feel like it might address some of the confusion that comes from enduring emotional abuse.