PD MIL - Codependent Son

[Wanderingsoul]

It took a miracle for me to find this site and to finally get the strength to post. Never posted in any online forum in my life so this is a first for me. Here it goes:

I married my husband when I was very young. 24. With very little dating experience and a the lack of wisdom most young 20 somethings have. My husband comes from a single mom, who had him at a very very young age, 14-15 to be exact in a 3rd world country. They are extremely co-dependent where she has done everything for him his whole life so that he can become a successful doctor. Now, when my husband started his practice, his mom did everything: funded, worked front desk, managed, etc. I tried to help but was shut down by her, despite having far more experience professionally working for fortune 500 companies. I was shut down, and asked to have nothing to do with the practice. I focused on my career.

There a few instances where her and I didn't see eye to eye and I didnt react the way I should have and I initiated confrontations with her a total of 2 times. Around when I was 24 and 25. One was because she didnt want me showing up to a party with my really beautiful cousin from LA bc she was insecure about her new boyfriend possibly liking her. The second was when she demanded I take on responsibilities for my husbands practice while we were undergoing IVF and I had the project of a lifetime to work on at work that was estimated at 1.5 mil in taxpayer dollars that I was leading.

Once I finally got pregnant, I lost my contract with the govt at 7 months pregnant. The next day this woman came to my home and told me she quit working for my husband and that it was now my turn to take over the family business. I had gained 70 lbs and was looking forward to resting and preparing for a baby. Over the next 3 months and first year of my sons life, this woman abused me emotionally to the point where I contemplated taking my own life. She constantly refused to train me and would yell at me for every mistake I made while working for my husband's practice.  If I put a patient's name in wrong, she would yell at me. If I had questions, she would tell me to figure it out. She also put it in my husband's ear that I didn't care enough about our "family" practice and that I was a spoiled brat. Meanwhile, I worked the entire 7 years of our marriage, never sat home for a single week not doing anything. This caused my husband to become so disrespectful to the point where our fights would escalate into furniture breaking. I had to get a dr. note saying I cant drive because my husband's practice was over an hour away and I had to take a very dangerous highway to get there. I was so scared to drive. It was my first time becoming pregnant and I actually had carried the baby to 7 months. After trying for 6 years to get pregnant. When my mother stepped in to express to her she didn't want her daughter driving out of fear of something happening, she made a huge deal saying my family wanted her to suffer and keep working.

After my son was born, I was asked to begin working again for the office after 4 months which I was so grateful for. But this woman was over every day and I appreciated her watching my son so I could sleep but it was like too much. I didn't have any privacy from her. There were countless family gatherings where she would lose her temper with me, in front of my family criticizing my mothering or my lack of knowledge about what was bothering the baby. She spoke to me like I was a peasant. After I returned back to working with my husband she would call me yelling at me for the other staff making mistakes. Her husband called me many times and hung up on me. No one said a word. He never even said sorry. My husband has so much daddy issues he thinks this man is his father and never stood up for me.  The only times she would apologize would be if my husband was distant with her after hearing how sad I was. But she would go right back to it. At one point when I was pregnant she yelled at me for wanting to get gifts for my parents because my husband bought her gifts. She said "my son can't do anything for me without you having to do the same for your parents". The backstory to this was that when my husband was entering his last year of dental school, he wanted to do something special for her. Since I knew growing up that jewelry made my mom happy, I suggested we get her a nice ring, bracelet, and necklace set from Kay Jewlers. I hand picked everything which I am good at because my mom has expensive taste so I know poor quality from good quality. Then 3 years later, I land a huge promotion at my job. I buy my mom earrings that cost less than everything we got her. My husband lost his mind. I had to call her for help since back then we were somewhat okay. I guess she secretly was offended and brought it up many years later when I was pregnant. So mean, who yells at their pregnant daughter in law. Only a true psychopath. My husband heard the whole conversation. I sat there in silence as she spewed out insult after insult. He didn't do anything. He never does anything. Right when I opened my mouth at the end to tell her it was ME who suggested buying her jewelry all those years ago, that it was ME who picked it out for her, she cuts me off and says "I know what type of woman you are, you like to have the last word and for that exact reason, I'm ending the conversation now because I don't want to give you that satisfaction". And hung up. My husband went and watched TV after like nothing happened.

Another time was when we launced a new system at my husband's office when my son was around 4 months old. She lost on me, on her husband and was so irate. I called her husband after he stormed out of our house and asked if he was okay. His psycho self went and told her I was crap talking her and she drove to my house and yelled at me again. And then said she was on her period. Woman is 52 years old. What period?! Again my husband is too dim to put the pieces together. After my husband miraculously said "I dont think she would have done that" she apologized. Stating she was on her period. Can't even take credibility for her actions. And then to top it all off, decided to throw in at the very end that althrough she lost her cool, she has witnessed me and my mom arguing and she doesn't like how I speak to my mom. Like what a sick woman. She had to throw something COMPLETELY irrelevant in there because she's so insecure as a woman. And then to top it all off was like "well you need to work! you either work for our business or get a real job you can't sit at home". What in the name of God does that have to do with anything? It was completely irrelevant to the topic we were discussing.

Another time I asked if she could work half day at my husbands practice bc it was my nephews first birthday. She said she wouldn't stay a minute past 2pm. While I'm at the birthday she texted me dozens of times, send me over 7 emails. Called me twice. She says its because she cares about the office and that the office comes first, but everyone including my family all knew she was doing it to distract me from being present at the party. When I get to my husbands office she stays till 3:30pm to yell at me in front of her neice (who was also working that day) for all the mistakes she found in my work over the last month. During this entire 1.5 hours of being yelled at by her, with patients in the office, with her niece witnessing it, a family friend brings over 2 cakes. One for her one for my husband, She takes her cake, turns to her neice and asks her if she wants some. Her niece says yes. And she splits the cake with her niece. Didn't even look at me to ask if I was hungry. Didn't even offer me a single piece. Sick woman.

My family is constantly cooking and sending food home for my husband who thinks my family deserves the financial hardship they are in. Swore to me that if they lost their jobs, that he wouldn't spend a dime to help them. That they dug their own grave due to their poor life choices.

Anytime I bring up her hurting me, he refers back to the two times I had a confrontation with her 6 years prior and uses that as a justification for her CONTINUOUS emotional and verbal abuse.

Fast forward to when my son is 7months. I get a great job and she offers to watch my son and demanded we pay her. I said ok. Then she asked if my mom could help watch my son 1 day a week and I told her that that would be great, and I would like to have my parents watch my son 2 days a week since my dad is off on mondays and is my sons only biological grandpa. She threw a fit, caused a whole scene where her husband cussed me out, my hsuand had to come over and diffuse the situation. Then the next business day,  he told me dont say a word to her when dropping our son off. I didn't. Yet she continued to curse me out in her native tongue, which I learned and understand. She then ran inside with the baby and kept me from saying bye to him. I had to call my husband and threaten to call the cops until she finally gave the baby back. Two hours after I get to work she sends me an email ccc'ing my husband. She called me a whore, emotionally unstabale, said I need medical attention, etc.  I moved into my parents home that very night.

I never responded to her email. She sent an email after that apoloigizing 2 weeks later but not even actually apologizing. Just merely suggesting we should have peace for my sons sake. I responded to that nicely saying I agree. Then, after a random converation with my husband she felt the need to email me again, outlining all the things that she hated about me. I didn't respond to that either. Come holidays, she regifts my mothers day gift to me in hopes I would cause a scene with my husband over it. I mentioned to my husband that this was regifted but in his denial he refused to accept it. I didnt push further bc her sick mind wanted us to fight on christmas. She kept trying to bate me throughout the holidays into reacting. I stood silent every time even though I was dying inside. I then found some emails on my husbands computer where she was speaking badly about me again. Another fight with my husband later, he wished death on me. Said I was his biggest mistake in life. It broke me. He then suggested that his mom and I no longer speak each others names or have any contact. It was perfect. I needed a break from her.

It didn't last one week.....she played her next card well. Said she wanted to apologize to my parents and I that she is a changed woman. She came to my home and in front of my parents and husband admitted to intentionally sabotaging my marriage, for intentionally trying to ruin my reputation as a wife, as a mother. That she wanted to keep my son away from me and be his mom. that she wanted to take my son away from my parents. That evil took over her and that she is so sorry.

I accepted her apology because at the time I still wanted to be married. But now, 2 months later, I cry every single day. If I wrote everything she put me through during the most sensitive time of my life, being pregnant and then being a new mom dealing with post-pardom, it would be a whole novel. I was pregnant with no job, nowhere to go. My sister was going through a divorce and had moved back home with her baby who is 3months older than mine. There was no room for me and my son there. I thank God every day for my job because it's the only saving grace I have to help support myself and my family should things take a turn for the worst or if I need to separate from my husband. I can't move on. And she has been trying to be sweet. My husband thinks everything isokay. He feels that since she apologized, that I have to drop everything and erase the pain. He doesn't feel like I have a right to feel pain about her since I confronted her twice 6 years prior. Now everything appears to be normal but I'm dying inside. My husband still fights with me for things regarding her that are purely imagined in his head. We borrowed toy balls from her house once bc we only had about 20 little plastic balls and wanted to make a play pen for him and his friends on his first birthday. He yelled at me the entire morning for not putting the exact amount of balls back in the bag for her. I told him I remembered we had 20 so I kept 20. He was insisting I was doing it out of spite because I "don't care about her". That his "poor mom" doesn't have a lot of toys for our son. I never even saw the bag he brought the balls in nor the amount. And the bag i put the balls in was DIFFERENT than the bag he brought them in so the weight distribution was different, hence making it seem like there were less balls when it was purely just a larger bag.  I sent her a video of my sons first birthday (when my husband didn't even bother coming home for because he likes to sleep at his office Wednesday nights - that's a whole other story). He told me I was wrong for sending it and not inviting her. He fights with me when I tell him I dont want his mom and her husband coming to my parents house for parties anymore bc I want to establish boundaries. He is so immeshed with her.

My husband victimizes his mom to such a large extent. Meanwhile this woman is living a very comfortable life. Doesnt need to work, has over 100k saved up in her personal account. Has a well-off, retired husband who pays for everything and a HUGE house. the reason why I feel like she's targeting me is out of jealousy. She is very unhappy with her marriage. She told my mom she couldn't wait for me to learn the stuff abou the office so she could divorce her husband and go back to her ex. That they made plans and he's waiting for her. Then when her husband became suspicious, she recorded him expressing his feelings of fear that she would leave him after I learned the office stuff. She then came to our home, and played the video of this poor man and his fears. And called him crazy for thinking it. Put on a whole show! In my mind I knew right then and there what an evil, manipulative woman she is. She's been divorced 4x. She doesn't love men. She uses them.

Every other word out of my husbands mouth is my mom, my mom. If I send him a pic of our son, he says, send it to my mom. If I have trouble caring for my son because my husband is comatose on the couch 24/7 from coming down off his ADHD medication (he doesn't even have ADHD), he tells me to send the baby to his mom.  He has no desire to parent our child. He's off two days a week and has his mom watch our son bc he doesn't want to be bothered with caring for him. And her selfish self is okay with that. She should be promoting him to spend time with his son. But she always puts herself first.

I dont know what to do. I feel like I can't bring this up to my husband....he's too on her side. He thinks everything is okay now but every text I get from her (regarding my son) makes my hands tremble, my heart race and throws me off. I lost so much weight. I can't eat, I have difficulty sleeping. I feel so trapped. I married my husband so young I fear leaving him. I don't know what it's like to be without him. Our 7 year anniversary is coming up and it makes me sick and ashamed that I'm still married when I should have the strength to leave.

[boots40]

Hi and welcome

I have been in a very similar position, and I too still tremble when she calls his phone - even though I am no contact for over 3 years.

As your husband is nowhere near ready to become unfogged from this toxic relationship, you really need to save yourself and save your son.  Do whatever it takes to stop this woman having any power over you - work, childcare...whatever...needs to be completely separate from your MIL and you need to re-learn how to keep your private life private and what you choose to share with her needs to be highly guarded and on a professional level.  It will only get worse for you if you are allowing yourself contact with a woman who emotionally abuses you.  Make sure she cannot call the house, cannot contact you via social media or personal phone, do not answer the door to her unless your husband is there to 'manage' her craziness. 

As for your husband - you make it clear that you have no interest in hearing anything about his mother and you do not want him to mention your name to her.  If he asks you to send pictures then ignore - he can send his own pictures. You don't have to act when asked by either of them.

The times you really need to be present in her company is if and when she has any contact with your child.  Normally I would say supervised visits with spouse, but only if the spouse is singing from the same hymn sheet.  As he is completely enmeshed in the craziness you must always be present when she has any child contact.  But you can however do it on your own terms and in your own time.  Please look up 'grey rock' which is a technique for dealing with toxic people who you must have communication with.  It does work but takes some practice.

I am sure others will be along to give you some other advice. 

[Wanderingsoul]

Hi! Thank you so much for your reply! I didn't think these forums worked and I can't believe I got a reply so fast. It actually brought tears to my eyes. I'm so scared of bringing up to my husband that I don't want to hear from her anymore. She has records of texts being nice to me and I'm being nice back but it feels unnatural to me. We fought a few times since her apology when I expressed to him I wasn't ready yet to go to her house and pick up our son. He was like "you need to get used to it again". I dont have to do anything. He keeps going back to the times I confronted her in the past. I can't prove shes crazy still but we all know she is. I think it's only a matter of time. Him and I have been working on our marriage since the apology. After years of refusing he finally agreed to marriage counseling. I'm in therapy 1x a week to discuss my PTSD from her. I'm thinking the best route is to have him come to my therapy session as part of MY therapy so my therapist can explain to him why I need the distance from her. Him and I cannot have these types of conversations without it becoming a very toxic argument. If I tell him I want to go back to no contact, he's going to look at me like I'm crazy. Like I'm the problem because his mom all of a sudden felt bad and wants to play nice again. All I wanted was my space. No one gave a crap about what I NEEDED. Not just what I wanted but what I needed. I am so lost....

[boots40]

Hi! Thank you so much for your reply! I didn't think these forums worked and I can't believe I got a reply so fast. It actually brought tears to my eyes. I'm so scared of bringing up to my husband that I don't want to hear from her anymore. She has records of texts being nice to me and I'm being nice back but it feels unnatural to me. We fought a few times since her apology when I expressed to him I wasn't ready yet to go to her house and pick up our son. He was like "you need to get used to it again". I dont have to do anything. He keeps going back to the times I confronted her in the past. I can't prove shes crazy still but we all know she is. I think it's only a matter of time. Him and I have been working on our marriage since the apology. After years of refusing he finally agreed to marriage counseling. I'm in therapy 1x a week to discuss my PTSD from her. I'm thinking the best route is to have him come to my therapy session as part of MY therapy so my therapist can explain to him why I need the distance from her. Him and I cannot have these types of conversations without it becoming a very toxic argument. If I tell him I want to go back to no contact, he's going to look at me like I'm crazy. Like I'm the problem because his mom all of a sudden felt bad and wants to play nice again. All I wanted was my space. No one gave a crap about what I NEEDED. Not just what I wanted but what I needed. I am so lost....

Good news about the counseling.  I think individual and couples counseling can really help.  You may have seen this as its been posted and recommended here many times but she really is talking wisdom about toxic in laws and is pretty much the advice I followed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq-HQTrnp8o

There is also a toolbox at the top of the page which really helped me when I first came to Out of the FOG. x

[qcdlvl]

Welcome! It's a tough situation, I agree with boots40 - keep your children safe, and that means MIL doesn't get contact not supervised by you. NC outside of that is probably the best for you. You married a momma's boy, unfortunately, and it may well be that he will never grow up and un-enmesh, or it may take many years. This is something to consider in terms of your long term plans. There are no easy options, I'm afraid. It all sounds pretty toxic, things like conveniently (for MIL),  pretending even a fauxpology requires automatic fogiveness, and equating forgiveness with turning back the clock, as if nothing had happened. Given yout husband threw you under the bus even during the vulnerable, difficult times of pregnancy, it may happen that he will always throw you, and maybe your children also, under the bus to appease MIL. You mention fights escalating to the point of furniture breaking - I urge you to consider what can be done to change this, for the sake of your own wellbeing and safety, and for that of your kids.

[Wanderingsoul]

Thank you all so much for taking the time to read my long post. I poured my heart into it and the wonderful souls of this community are being so kind and accepting. I haven't felt this comforted in so very long.

The hope I have right now that I'm holding on to is the fact that my husband is making small progresses in our personal relationship: more couple time, date nights, listening, asking questions and being sensitive to my feelings. They're little but they're building and I'm so grateful for it. But the problem is they aren't happening fast enough to coincide with my mental progress in understanding the toxicity of his relationship with his mom and her toxic relationship with me. And none of the progress is remotely in the MOM department which is why I still don't feel safe talking to him about her after the terrible fights we've had so far. He admits this last couple years were horrible for us. He begs me to give him another year to work hard so he can spend more time home, with us. I feel like I'm waiting for that....but I don't know how much longer I can wait. I know that's a separate topic and more along the lines of couples therapy not PD MIL....sorry....

Unfortunately when my husband and I were separated he still wanted our child on his days off but would take him to his moms house. After we reconciled after a few weeks he kept taking our child to her. She has always watched him since beginning of Sept last year 5 days a week but after the drama over the holidays, her emails, and the separation it dropped to two days a week: the days my husband is off. I wish I could say she is a bad grandparent but I have to be honest, she takes good care of him. But she doesn't listen to any of my guidance really. I feel like she says ok but I have no idea what's going on over there. I felt like fighting with my husband was the first battle I wanted to focus on for the sake of my family and fighting him on her not seeing him would have nailed the coffin in our marriage ending. So now here I am with her warching our baby 2 days a week. I kept avoiding communication with her by writing in a journal and having her fill out his daily schedule so I could review when I got home from work. My husband was always the one to take him and bring him back. But there have been times now things have happened and I've had to take him. She keeps finding ways to contact me too, it's so weird!

My moms much older than her and more frail and can't watch my son more than 3x a week due to her arthritis. My husband says he doesn't want our son in daycare until age of 2 and I understand bc I want him to be able to tell us what's going on. I feel like now that my husband and I are trying to go to counseling, fighting him on her not watching him is a loosing battle.

I am thinking of having my husband come to one of my therapy sessions so my therapist can tell him just how badly the last two years traumatized me. How difficult it's been for me to move on. I can't have that convo with him just us bc it will escalate. I know it will hurt him so much but I have to protect myself. He will tell me I'm the main problem. That I'm causing drama. That she apologized so what's the problem. ..

[Entj]

Welcome to the forum, Wanderingsoul. Talking with people who get it is a great source for validation. I'm sorry you need to be here in the first place, but happy you're getting support

Your husband never had the chance to learn how to implement boundaries in his relationship with his mother. Most people afflicted with PD see their kids as an extension of themselves, thus the kids are never able to individuate and this does not change with age.

You will need to set boundaries for yourself and your son with your MIL. These boundaries, however, will be viewed as an aggressive act by those who have no boundaries, your MIL and husband. It's a thin line and getting therapy for yourself and as a couple is a step to the right direction.

It's a tough situation for sure. Hope you keep posting here to get more support!   

[openskyblue]

This sounds like an extremely difficult martial situation to be in. One thing that popped out of your intro post was that your husband "wished death" on you. That sounds like a direct threat. I hope you are taking precautions to protect yourself. It's one thing to have a fight with your husband; it's a whole other thing to have your husband wish you dead.

It seems to me that the person who is the problem in this equation is your husband. He has you triangulated with his mother, which is an excellent way that PDs get their way with people closest to them. This is not to say that your MIL is not extremely difficult, but so so long as he is engaging in this triangulation and he is your husband, it is really him who is causing you the most pain, IME. He sounds overly enmeshed with his mother -- and the number of times you describe him as being verbally abusive to you is very troubling.

I wish you the best, wanderingsoul. This sounds really tough.

[Wanderingsoul]

Thank you so much for your response! I think you're right in that assessment and honestly my therapist says the same thing. Problem is my husband. We still get into huge arguments because he is so closed off emotionally and I feel so betrayed by him for way he's neglected me for the last two years. You're 100% right...he is the problem. Thank you a million times for taking the tiem to read my post and provide your thoughts...means the world....

This sounds like an extremely difficult martial situation to be in. One thing that popped out of your intro post was that your husband "wished death" on you. That sounds like a direct threat. I hope you are taking precautions to protect yourself. It's one thing to have a fight with your husband; it's a whole other thing to have your husband wish you dead.

It seems to me that the person who is the problem in this equation is your husband. He has you triangulated with his mother, which is an excellent way that PDs get their way with people closest to them. This is not to say that your MIL is not extremely difficult, but so so long as he is engaging in this triangulation and he is your husband, it is really him who is causing you the most pain, IME. He sounds overly enmeshed with his mother -- and the number of times you describe him as being verbally abusive to you is very troubling.

I wish you the best, wanderingsoul. This sounds really tough.