What to expect?

[Associate of Daniel]

A letter this week from uNPD exH's solicitor.

He wants to swap our arrangement to ds12 being with him during the week and with me on the weekends.

The first step is that all 3 of us see a child psychologist who will write a family report for the court.

I'm in Australia.

Are there any Australians on these boards who've been through this psychological assessment process?

If so, what was it like and what was the outcome?

The stories from America that I've read sound horrendous and their psychological reports unhelpful to the nons.

AOD

[Rose1]

Hi I haven't but I would think first step is to make sure your ex pays for it.  That might put him off.

I doubt that it's much better here. Psychological reports are nice but it doesn't mean the  court takes notice of it.  And pds the world over want reports on their exes but bury the results for themselves. Nor will they learn from them.

I would make sure all 3 reports are presented in court as a condition of having them done because it might highlight just how controlling the ex's wife is, which means she will likely want to suppress theirs. Probably do them more harm than you and should give your lawyer some good arguments. Also they don't get to pick the psychologist. Court approved only.
I would refuse their request but on the grounds of disruption of your son's routine at a critical point in his life. Maybe counter offer  They have him every second weekend if they're finding every weekend difficult. But no make up time during the week because of demands of high school, travel etc.

Your son will be old enough in a few years to spend more time with them (should he want to). In the meantime the next few years of high school are crucial for maintaining his routine, getting enough sleep, having time for both homework and some extra curricular activities. Busy busy busy. Travelling during the week will impact  this. Plus there's no change in circumstances so why change something that's worked.

So now to the plot. Someone wants him over there for a couple reasons - force the closer school. Reduce child support.  If he's over there 5 nights a week then this school is just across the road. It stinks because it's still all about them and not about your son. Same reasons apply, happy at the school, all his friends are there.

In some ways the timing isn't too bad because your son is still a little young to make these decisions. If he was a year or two older he could quite easily have his wishes taken into consideration but still be too young to stand up to them and state what his wishes really are.

[Whiteheron]

Sorry, I can only speak to the psych evals in the US, but this...

So now to the plot. Someone wants him over there for a couple reasons - force the closer school. Reduce child support.  If he's over there 5 nights a week then this school is just across the road. It stinks because it's still all about them and not about your son. Same reasons apply, happy at the school, all his friends are there.

I had the same thought about the school your x is pushing for. There is no reason to change your DS's routine. As Rose mentioned, if they can't handle every weekend, then they can opt for every other weekend. The rest should stay the same - emphasize you want stability for your DS, stability and routine. He is at an age where changing schools would be extremely disruptive to his social life. (I know this from experience - my FOO moved to another state when I was 12 and I had a very difficult time adjusting to a new school). What your x is proposing a major upheaval. There is no reason to change anything if your DS is thriving in the current situation.

In our eval, I emphasized the importance of structure, routine, stability. The evaluator seemed to like that and feel it was important in putting the kids first. stbx doesn't believe those things are important - I guess they're not stimulating enough for him? He likes to keep them off balance? But that's what kids crave, what they need.

[mamato3]

I'm sorry that they are doing this. I hope the evaluation process isn't too difficult for you. Is your DS aware of what is going on?

[Associate of Daniel]

Thanks, Folks.

Just fo clarify a few things:

The psychological assessment will be of uNPD exH, ds12 and me. My understanding (from my lawyer) is that it's just for the parties in dispute. Ie:  biological parents only, not step parents.

Also, whoever requests the assessment has to pay for it. So uNPD exH would pay. ($5-7000)

I will confirm the above with my solicitor.

Ds is currently in grade 6, at the end of which, most students change schools because their current school doesn't go beyond grade 6.

So it would not be considered unusual for him to change schools. But his school continues through to year 12.

He says he wants to live with his uNPD father. His reasons:  he's lived with me for 7 years, it's only fair to live with dad for the next 6. His dad has internet and I don't. (I will next year, probably, when he needs it for school.) He's going through puberty and needs his dad's presence, he'd get a key to his dad's apartment...

So all reasons that reflect the immaturity of his age.

He wants to attend the school his dad wants because it has more technology than where he's at and they use the same ipads that his dad has...

Can anyone tell me what happens in the sessions with the psychologist?

Is it a list of standard questions that I have to answer, or is it a general chat?  Can I take in email exchanges and will the psychologist read them?

Is it just a one hour chat with each of us, or a few sessions each?  (I mean, how can a stranger ascertain the truth of an abusive situation that's been going on for years, in a one hour chat?)

And can anyone tell me what the report looks like? Is it just a summary of each person's character or does it include recommendations based upon certain incidents etc.?

I guess I'm asking too, should I get my hopes up or not?

Ds is aware of what's happening and is looking forward to having his say.

Rose1:  thanks for the headsup re presenting all 3 assessments in court.  I suspect it will just be the one general report based on the 3 assessments though.

UNPD exH's solicitor has listed 2 psychologists, one of which I know is court approved, so I'm assuming the other one is too..it appears they are allowing me to choose from the 2 they've listed.

I just can't understand what can be achieved in the short term here.

Ds is enrolled at the current school until the end of year 12.

The time to apply for year 7 schools is a matter of weeks away. The process to gain a change in custody takes many months, even over a year. So uNPD exH is ensuring that ds stays at the current school for longer, despite him not wanting him to attend there.

Wouldn't it make more sense to find a school we're all happy with in the next few weeks and apply there?

And if we don't apply in the application stage in a few weeks the chances of ds being accepted into another school after year 7 are slim to none. He'd therefore stay at his current school for years, which uNPD doesn't want.

It makes no sense. He's sabotaging himself. And especially since he's refusing to look at any schools other than state schools.

And even if he is awarded custody, because we will have missed the boat on school applications, and because he needs my consent to enrol ds in the other school, and I'm disinclined to give my consent, ds would have to stay at his current school.

Is uNPD exH going to drive ds to and from school each day (over an hour each way in peak traffic)?

The illogic is just...

AOD

[Rose1]

Still think you should have a go at having step mom included if he expects your son to live with her. It's relevant. What a crock. She might be worse than he is.

Stick with what's best for your son. He's just repeating what he has heard. Technology and iPhones do not a balanced young man make.
Imo too much pd sets kids up for a lifetime of issues and boys in particular don't seem to want to do therapy .

[Rose1]

As a side note, the mere mention of exbpds mother's issues and public disclosure was enough to have custody threats withdrawn

[hhaw]

I'm guessing you'll be administered some sort of IQ test, which is a lot of spatial puzzles, as I recall.... some questions on literature in the T's office.  I don't know why they give intelligence tests all around, bc it's not that important, though it will FEEL very important when the numbers come in.  I think it puts more pressure on us, and you do better if you're calm, and confident you'll do just fine. I believe you will, based on your posts, btw. 

You'll likely be asked to answer  many questions about your history, so have a slice in time to relate to, and don't get bogged down with telling the entire truth in one evaluation.  You're giving a slice in time only.  Keep it to that, and things get easier to answer.   Maybe choose a time the PD was very ill, but not out of his head sick and answer questions around that.

Everyone being assessed had their own report written up.  One was on IQ, and the other based on the tests.... for the kids it was questions like WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF?  WHAT DO YOU FEAR MIGHT HAPPEN?  You'll likely be asked what the worst thing that happened to you was.  Know what your answer will be ahead of time.   Reports will be about  character... if they think you're being honest, if you're likely to be able to cheat the test based on your history or training, if you're likely to be vindictive, and take vengeance, if you care more about others than yourself, if you tend to have trouble thinking clearly... that sort of thing. 

Our court appointed T testified (for an entire friggin day) and the two professional expert witnesses got their testimonies over with in under two hours... total.  The Judge completely disregarded the crank T's reports, and "opinions" as the Judge called it. 

Also, don't see atom bombs in the ink spots if you're required to take the Rorschach test.  Take a moment and think before blurting, is my advice.  If you see a bomb, take a breath, think positive thoughts, and see something else.  I tended to blurt, and really regretted that atom bomb answer.   

My children were given hammers by the T first thing, then instructed to "do whatever they liked with them."  Umm... the kids looked at that crank T like she'd grown two heads, then dropped the hammers right on the table like they were snakes.  I supposed some kids might whack away at each other or the parent, and I felt it was a definite set up.  My kids were horrified, but be prepared for something you aren't expecting, and try to prepare your son as best you can.  His cooperation would be best to get through it more quickly AND you don't want to be seen as hiding anything.  It's likely your evals will go more smoothly, and without such theatrical ploys. 

Next we played Apples to Apples the board game, so maybe play a lot of board games with your ds leading up to the evals.  I could see how things could go really bad if kids aren't used to playing board games, weren't used to following rules, or taking turns, losing, etc, kwim?

The PDs played the same game with the kids on another day, and my children were polite, happy to see their Grandparents, and lovely in every way, bc I never told the kids one negative thing about the PDs.  The T interpreted that as the PDs deserving equal access to my children, which would have been emotional suicide for the kiddos and me.

The Judge, however, felt my children's attitudes towards the PDs reflected well on me, thank God.  The final ORDER said straight out that contact, any at all, would be detrimental for my children to have with the PDs, so there is hope.

BTW, the PDs have a very hard time staying level, and answering questions appropriately on the stand.  The Judge wants to hear about the child through that parent's eyes.  Wants details about the child's personality, routine, about the comforting evening ritual in the home, where calm,  and peace are present.  About the child's activities, and what he loves about them, what he loves about school, what he struggles with... the high points of course, and should be easy for a parent as tuned in to their child as you. 

Our Judge actually noted the crazy things the PDs talked about on the stand.... my body parts, how I dressed rather than the time spent on beach vacations, and in the garden with the kids, which would have been a nice thing for them to talk about... they COULD have talked about that.  PDs have a very difficult time not talking about the things they're angry about, and whatever their pathology is, IME.  It comes out all over the place, IME.  At one point MIL was asked if she could think of anything positive to say about me, and she really struggled with that one.  Be prepared to say something positive about the PD if asked.   Something logical.... something true, but doesn't bolster his argument.  Something small, and positive.

::nodding::.

I see no reason for your Judge to flip your son's routine on it's head.  NOTHING to inform this Judge that turning this young boy's life upside down would be in his best interest.  He has a parent, who has primary physical custody, and you manage his life, and have very sound reasons for the schools you're considering, and the interests your son holds.  That might be something this Judge is interested in hearing about, IMO.  Hopefully, so... bc the PD seems to really be off the mark around school choices.

think you should stay steady, and remain confident this will go well for you.  Always refer to the PD with compassion, and without expectation for what the T should do, think and feel.  It's always a mistake to get defensive, or tell the T what they must do, IME.

THe court wants to know your son is doing well in school, has friends, and activities, and that both parents are getting him to his activities regularly, and on time.   

The court wants your home to be a safe environment, with food, and space for your son to do homework, and play..... a parent who allow a child to deal with consequences of his actions is a good thing.  Calm, consistent, steady mom.... always.

I think you're that steady, consistent mom.

[Associate of Daniel]

Thanks, Hhaw.

I've always wanted to do an IQ test - lol.

I once found a book of them in the library and couldn't even answer the first question!

But seriously? Ink spot tests? Spacial puzzles? Board games? (Which ds and uNPD exH dislike, actually.)

We'll probably only have an hour of time. Surely they won't waste time on such - rubbish?!
Anyway? You've all given me much good advice. 

Thanks.

AOD

[Whiteheron]

AOD- I've heard that it really depends on the evaluator. Some here in the states only take an hour or two. My L is the one who requested an eval for the entire family and she recommended the top evaluator in our state. I was surprised stbx agreed so quickly to both the eval and the evaluator. His L must have advised him against fighting it.

Anyways - no IQ tests or games here. We each had to take the MMPI, which only sends up red flags if you're completely off your rocker, which neither stbx or I seem to be. We each had a day long session with the evaluator, the kids each had about an hour, hour and a half with her. During my time, she asked me about growing up, what kind of things I liked, how I met stbx, about college, what kinds of things we did, about having the kids, asked me to describe each child, what home life was like, about work. She progressed me through the years to the present time. She asked questions here and there, but generally let me talk. I did so without using labels, I described behaviors, situations, conversations.

I know she did a sticker/coloring project with DD in an attempt to get her to open up - I think DD was 9 or 10 when the eval took place. DS was about 13, I think, and she just spoke with him.

Before the session, the evaluator asked that if there was anything stbx or I wanted her to see, to mail it to her ahead of time. I sent her an email or two that I had sent to stbx's T, which essentially summarized the abuse (without calling it that). I did this so that the eval would know I was actively trying to work with stbx's T to make things better, and to let her know that I wasn't coming into the session with the intent of bashing stbx.

stbx submitted all of the affidavits he'd filed against me up to that point, which was, I think 3-4. She made a comment to him about how privileged he was to be able to afford to submit all of these documents to the court. Funny thing is after his session, in his next affidavit, which he had a copy sent to her, he mentioned this and tried to use it against me "I realize that I am in a position of great privilege and don't want to waste the court's valuable time, so it pains me to be forced to submit to the court, once again, evidence of mentally unstable and controlling behavior by whiteheron..." (that is heavily paraphrased, but close enough)

Once an evaluator is chosen, I would call and ask if he/she wants to see any documentation you may have. If they say yes, bring in one or two of the worst (best) examples (have others handy just in case) that support your story. You are not there to defend yourself or to show how your x is unstable. The evaluator is supposed to be looking at you as a person and how you are, how you reacted to the situations you found yourself and your DS in, and how you are as a parent. This is the point where I gave examples of how stbx handled xyz situation and how it affected the kids and myself.

The report was quite long. I've heard from others on the site that they can be a page or two in length. Ours was around 60 pages. She gave a brief overview of what stbx and I had said, how she felt the kids were doing, and did give a custody recommendation, since that was what we were disputing. I did tell her I thought stbx should have more time than I was comfortable with, and I appeared very supportive of the kids having a relationship with stbx and his extended family. Both were very important and noted in her report (stbx was opposite). 

I would ask your L if he/she knows about the evaluators on the list and what they're like.

[hhaw]

Good point about bringing documents, WH.

It's a good idea to bring every document you think will be helpful. 
Putting together a notebook of items that are truly important is super helpful if you have a lot of things to consider.... we broke them down in categories...
Safety
Visitation 
E mails

I did this initially for my attorney. 
Attorney suggested I bring the notebook to meet with psych evaluators going forward, but not leave it WITH them.  They were free to make copies of the items they found useful.

BTW, the T will likely have a very narrow scope to cover..... specific  things the Judge lays out.  Present those things you find most important up front, bc there may be very limited time.

My youngest dd was completely over the psych evaluations by the time she had her last appt with the last T, and began answering questions  with....

"THAT'S CLASSIFIED!"

which you'd think might work against her, or me, but...
that last T (handpicked by the PDs, and given marching orders BY them)  was very honest, and let the Judge know my kids a)weren't being coached, they b) were being harmed by the adult conflict,  and they c)were broken hearted spending their entire summer in psyc evals with mom in court overlapping into their first days of school. which all did a lot of harm we're still dealing with.   Don't assume the worst if your ds starts losing patience. 

It will likely become apparent to the court, and hopefully the T,  that the ex's case puts unnecessary stress on ds, and  creates   anxiety, particularly if he hates puzzles, and tests, and drawing, and answering questions for strangers about his life, and mom and dad, bc that's the reality.   He's aware of the adult conflict, and that's never good for a child.  Ever.

You aren't going up against the PD here.  You're advocating for your son, the best possible outcome for his mental health, and for a calm, consistent environment for him to grow up in.

The plan you have in place now sounds like it's been working pretty well.  I see no reason to change it, but can you, if the Judge sees things your way?  Do you have to file a counter suit to alter the agreement, and make it tighter, stronger in your direction?

It would be a shame if the Judge wanted to do that, but couldn't bc he didn't have the ability, kwim?

[Associate of Daniel]

Thanks, Hhaw.  You've certainly been through a lot.

So, I've spoken with my solicitor.  She says it's up to the psychologist to decide if she speaks to anyone else.

I've worded my reply to uNPD exH's solicitor to say that I agree to the psychological assessment on the understanding that the uNPD smum is also part of the process.

Oh boy. Here we go.

AOD

[Rose1]

 

[hhaw]

WHen we went round and round, the Judge is the person who decided who would go through assessment and who wouldn't. 

We didn't get a choice in the matter.

The PDs, who were pushing for me and the kids to go through it, ended up in psych evals.

When the Court can't see who's who.... it seems that the Judge orders it evenly across the board, with both parents, and the kids taking evaluations. 

You an ask MIL be included.

Don't ask, don't get, right?

[Associate of Daniel]

Yes. And it's still up to the psychologist who she speaks to outside of the immediate family, if anyone.

AOD

[hhaw]

I think a good T seeks out teachers, friends, family members, and neighbors if they're doing a complete evaluation.

[Whiteheron]

I think a good T seeks out teachers, friends, family members, and neighbors if they're doing a complete evaluation.

That's what our evaluator did. In our case, teachers, therapists, doctors.

[sevenyears]

OMG AOD - it's never ending, is it? My fingers are crossed for you, and I hope for the best for your ds that this is over with quickly.

[athene1399]

I hope things go well for you. Perhaps that's the reason for uNPDeH coaching DS with the "manipulation", "support", "Respect", etc. A psychologist should be able to recognize if the child is being coached IMO. It looks pretty obvious in your case, so hopefully the psychologist can see what is going on and hopefully that helps you. I unfortunately do not have any advice. Please keep us updated. I will keep you in my thoughts.

[Associate of Daniel]

I fear I will lose ds whether or not the court grants uNPD exH custody.

In order to protect ds I think I'll have to break some of his confidences in me. I'll also have to expose some of his uNPD dad's bad behaviour.

So if ds stays with me our relationship sill be tested by him losing trust in me.

If he goes to live with his uNPD dad he'll continue to drink the cool aid and split me black like his uNPD dad and uNPD smum have done.

😢

AOD