Pathological Lying: Random and Purposeful

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Transcendence

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Pathological Lying: Random and Purposeful
« on: April 15, 2019, 06:33:25 AM »
Before I came out of denial regarding narcissism within my family…I would stand in bewilderment reeling with cognitive dissonance. A promise was broken…there was a betrayal…words didn’t match actions...someone was lying!  How can someone who says they love me…do such horrible things to me and others that I care about? 

I was in my dad’s room as he was recovering from surgery when my sister called him on his cell.  I was witness to her bullying my dad and lying as I could hear her!  I had made my dad a wonderful jumbo shrimp salad from scratch and she pushed him to order from some restaurant and eat the food she would eventually bring him first!  She also took the monitor out of his room on another night to punish me, and then when he had issues in the middle of the night, she attacked me the next day, and said it was him that wanted the monitor gone.  I can’t believe anything she says.  People who lie can never be in a position of relational trust…yet so many narcissists charm and successfully deceive…end up in career positions where they garner undeserved trust.

So Ted Bundy has been in the news a lot lately, with the 30th anniversary of his execution…and my sister comes up with this matter of fact statement, “Didn’t I know he lived in our hometown?”  Wait…what?!  I did the research…he never lived in our hometown.  So lying is her very nature.  Anything to be superior…or to get her way.  It makes me sick!  She is probably lying about my dad’s medical care as well and thus all the contradictions over time!  WTH???!!! 

My brother is also a pathological liar…and a multiple addict.  I believe there is a type of narcissism that follows substance abuse…that narcissism may not still be present after successful addiction recovery.  I have been floored by the smoothness of transition talking with him in the same conversation of duplicitous deception!  He seems so sincere yet I have come to the sad conclusion that I can’t believe anything he says either!  He lies to keep from taking responsibility for his actions, among other things.

The ironic thing is my sister latches on to my brother’s lies after he is caught and rides that wave into the sunset…yet she has hypnotized so many in my family with her fake persona and lacquered up charm. 

Truly evil:  “When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies” (John 8:44)
No sympathy for devil!


« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 06:36:00 AM by Transcendence »

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clara

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Re: Pathological Lying: Random and Purposeful
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2019, 11:32:58 AM »
Regarding your brother, Transcendence--you know the old saying about how do you know when an addict is lying?  Their lips are moving!  Many PDs, especially NPDs, are the same way.  Why, I don't know.  For some reason, they seem to think it will benefit them.  They don't seem able to understand that, after awhile, most people pick up on the fact that they're habitual liars.  I think most people become aware of something being wrong with a PD, but don't know how to express it or can't believe what they're witnessing.  It's more comfortable just accepting the person as they present themselves rather than confront all the ways they're deceiving you, especially in a family or work situation where you feel there's not much you can do about it, just find a way to protect yourself.  But basically I believe most people know a liar when they're dealing with one.  A PD who's developed the habit of lying constantly will eventually trip themselves up.  That type doesn't lie just to protect themselves in certain situations, they do it just because they think they can (and you're too stupid to catch on).  They overestimate their ability to deceive and underestimate your ability to see through them. 

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11JB68

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Re: Pathological Lying: Random and Purposeful
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2019, 02:44:53 PM »
I forget where I read this, but something about different reasons people lie....that we all lie from time to time, usually to avoid punishment, or white lies to avoid hurting someone's feelings. But that pwPD lie for other reasons, eg to make themselves look good. The weird thing in my situation is my uPDh states that he is100% against lying. If I Or my son were to lie to him we would be in big trouble, etc. His mom lied frequently, almost like she was living in a fantasy world. But uPDh does lie, and since I've been coming ootf I've realized that the beginning of our relationship involved So many lies. In fact he concocted a very involved lie to get me to go out with him in the first place! And now he seemsto think this was cute, clever, a prevarication (does that sound better than a lie??) Then lied to my parents about a couple of things. Told me he would quit smoking (no problem at all) then when he couldn't it was my fault. Etc. Now that I'm able to observe his behavior, I've been taken aback a couple of times recently by some weirdly unnecessary lies that are clearly only to make him look good to others.

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athene1399

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Re: Pathological Lying: Random and Purposeful
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2019, 08:49:00 AM »
The PD in my life lies for a couple of reasons: to look like the victim, to get money, or to make it look like something that was her fault was not her fault (which ties into the victim-mentality). I always wonder if she believes what she says. She lost her job a bit ago and blamed everyone who worked there aside from herself. I think she does believe her lies when it comes to her playing the victim. That's why she can't change. She can never see the part she plays, so can't change for the better next time around. It's the same situation with different players every time.  When she lies to trick people into giving her money, she doesn't feel bad because in her mind she deserves that money. It feeds off of her sense of entitlement.

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40andfab

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Re: Pathological Lying: Random and Purposeful
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2019, 02:47:09 PM »
In my experience with two different uPDs, they lie for many reasons, the first is just to embellish a story in a way that makes them look like a hero or victim, whichever gives supply at the time. Another is to cover up their intentions, somewhat like gaslighting. A "I never said that" if confronted or quick turn the tables and begin labelling the person who is confronting them as crazy or "just trying to start trouble" or you name it.

What I find particularly interesting is that in the case of my sis, every single person who knows her and has been around her knows how she lies about almost everything, yet they still defend her, even when her lying became particularly destructive and threatening. It's really mind boggling. I found myself in the "um, no that is a damned lie" camp and was subsequently turned on by the entire family for not protecting my sister's outright likes and accusations and not just "letting it go".

In the other case I just can't speak with the gaslighter anymore. He says things that literally are the complete opposite of what he said the day before. Like to the point where my own reality becomes so foggy I have turned to writing what he says down, insist on only communicating via text or email and staying firm in my reality to cope. It's super crazy making!
"The first step toward change is awareness. The second step is acceptance" – Nathaniel Branden

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bluprint

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Re: Pathological Lying: Random and Purposeful
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2019, 05:58:31 AM »
I have dealt with a smear campaign from a pwBPD, but even before that, some of the things he said about himself and other people didn't add up. The reason for his lying seems to be anything and everything.

The lies of the smear campaign strike me as logical at least - there was clear intent to destroy my reputation, soothe his pain, and to re-establish contact with me, thinking I would come forward and deny the accusations, or better yet, engage in mud slinging. It's not acceptable by any means, but I see the intentions behind it.

I was more creeped out by the lies he told before our falling out because these lies were unnecessary, and seemed to be spun out of thin air. Like one time I wondered out loud whether Victoria's Secret would open stores in our city, and he told me that his friends were talking to some people who would bring VS to our country very soon - except that VS had already been open for business in our city for years, as I would find out later.

There was also the issue of him forwarding my resume to his department head - sent it to him via email then never got a response. It was alright because I never followed up on my application and decided to keep working part-time. Until one of our mutual friends got a job offer from the same department, and he insisted that he did forward my application to the dep head, but he had no receipts to show me. No forwarded emails, nothing. 

He also left out details of our falling our whenever he'd talk to out mutual friends, particularly details pertaining to his actions. He would always put the emphasis on me - I blocked him, etc.

The sad part is that these were small things that he didn't need to lie about. Like if he neglected to forward my application, that was fine, because obviously it's my responsibility to follow up on it. And if he truly considered our mutual friends as friends, and not pawns in a game he was trying to win, then he should have felt safe talking about his role in the falling out. The VS lie was completely random though.

Sadder still is that he accuses me of lying and hiding things from him. He used to call me out on social media, and I wouldn't have minded it if I truly believed that he was an authentic as he made himself out to be.

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StayWithMe

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Re: Pathological Lying: Random and Purposeful
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2019, 11:59:43 AM »
My mother lies through that method of selective sight, hearing and memory.  As a few others do as well. 

I remember growing up, I was not given this privilege, that is not to lie but to be honest about the fact that no matter what you think I should have heard seen or remembered, I simply don't.  Ironically, a lot things that my mother pretended to assume that I should know were never relayed to me in the first place.

So of course, when I went out into the big wide world out there, imagine how frustrated i was to find that when someone says that they don't remember, well, end of discussion. 

These days, when I deal with someone who uses that defense often, I will pre empt it by saying "I know you won't remember this since {add what you want}, but........."

Another thing my mother would do is create cutesy names for things and people and then expect me to correct her.  I've learned to withstand her verbal abuse ie You stupid, you don't know......  and then say, "If you don't know what you're talking about, then why would I know what you're talking about?"

It's amazing the number of verbal games people can play on you.