Considering moving from Grey Rock to NC

[Oscen]

For all my adult life, I've had very minimal contact with my uNPDM. I am a lost child and just naturally didn't give much emotionally. I think I was sort of discarded because my other sisters were better sources of supply. However, I have been kept on the side, on a leash, with little crumbs of contact and hope - the odd email and gifts of money, etc. Never asking how I am, of course.

I am considering going no contact.. part of me longs for it, as keeping the channel open feels like I'm in the passenger seat, waiting for an email that can upset. M's health has been poor lately and I feel upset and want to reach out to her, but I also know how that game ends - a kick in the teeth for me and a drain gin of energy, with plenty of side-eye if I dare show traces of the self-esteem I've been nurturing lately.

However, blocking her by email and phone just feels so cold, so final. I don't want to orphan myself. I know it will also affect the last few threads of connection I have with my enmeshed sisters. Maybe that's for the better, as they seem pretty invested in maintaining M's worldview... but I feel like I'm not ready to give up on family. I don't know what more they can offer me, but... it's tough. I really don't want to try to reach out and try to improve the relationship at this time - I need all my emotional energy for myself right now and I feel it will delay and cut down the progress I'm making at this time.

Has anyone else gone through this process? For the time being, I'll probably just stay at vvvvvvvlc. But I would like feel more intentional, more in control, like I haven't just passively gone along with my M discarding me, waiting patiently for her to pick me up and play with me again, like a doll. I don't need to tell her I'm going no or low contact, but I want to feel decisive and in control of the situation (of my own end of things, at least).

[Moxie890]

As much as I didn't want to go NC with my mom, I knew in my gut that it's what I needed to stay safe and sane. It took me well over a year to actually do it. Going NC is a very personal and very hard choice. It is one of, if not the hardest thing I have ever done.

My best advice is listen to your gut, and be gentle with yourself. For me, it was a one step forward two steps back process, so I tried to focus on the fact that I was facing a healthy direction.

[Yael924]

To find a more mindful way to manage contact -- where you make the choice instead of waiting:

I would consider setting your email account to direct emails from mom/siblings to a separate file folder. (Mine has a name that would upset the moderators, but I smile when I see it  ) With this technique, you can check for emails when you are ready, instead of scanning your inbox trepidatiously.

[JustKat]

Yeah, it was definitely one of the hardest things I've ever had to do in life. With my NPDmother it was easy, but when she passed away and I had to make that decision with my enfather, it was an entirely different thing. I knew what my mother was, but I was in denial about the kind person my father was. When he finally revealed his ugly side I was 55 so it was a real shock to come to that realization at an age when I thought I'd have some stability in my life. At the same time my sister turned on me in defense of my mother, so it all came at me from left field and came at me fast.

I also struggled with the idea of orphaning myself, but the more I thought about it the more I realized I was pretty much an orphan anyway. I had a family, but it was a family that didn't want me, at least not in the normal family way. I didn't want to lose my sister and tried to hold on to hope that we could reconnect after my mother died, but it didn't turn out that way. At some point I had to accept that she was gone, morphed into someone I no longer knew and that she wasn't coming back.

I agree with Moxie about trusting your gut. I stressed myself half to death weighing the pros and cons of going NC, but when the time came, it really was my gut instinct that told me it had to be done.

Whatever you decide, do what is best for YOU. You'll know when it's time. Keep posting, keep sharing. Take as much time as you need. We're here for you.

[LifeIsWorthLiving]

Going NC is hard. I felt rejected, guilty, and was criticized by family and friends sent in as flying monkeys. However, understanding that I only went NC because my NPD parents behave terribly towards me really helped me to do what I needed to do. There are two reasons I came to this conclusion. 1) I would not subject myself to that kind of treatment from non-family, so why should it be ok if a parent does it? and 2) if my parents actually changed and treated me and everyone else respectfully (I know they won't without Divine intervention, so I am not banking on this), then I would be quite happy to have them back in my life. I look at the NC as being their choice, not mine. The only think I chose was to say no to abuse.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I look at the NC as their choice as well. I said I needed a break, and I'd be in contact when I was ready. I expected it to be temporary, while I focused on fixing some other major issues in my life. Well, due their psychotic and truly threatening and illegal reactions, "when I am ready" is now never.

Even with a pretty clear cut reason to pull the trigger and send that cease and desist and end things forever for the sake of my innocent children being threatened, it was still so very hard. What helped me was looking at it was what advice would I give to anybody else in this scenario? I had to depersonalize to make the decision. Then let myself fall apart emotionally after, in therapy, and learn to begin to rebuild.

It is THE WORST.  But it does get better.

[daughter]

I was long fearful of my malevolent NBM and enNF, reluctant to disengage from them despite their callous and willful disregard towards me.  I realized I was bonded via "fear of reprecussions", of angering them by my "disobedience" and perceived "disrespect", while ignoring my own fundamental emotional needs: a sense of "love", commonplace respect, and acknowledgment that I was a worthy member of my FOO Family.  IT took me forever to decide to allow myself to be NC. Yes, I did so by quietly disengaging, as much already tacitly shunned as deciding to no longer initiate further contact with my nearby parents - my NBM hasn't called me in 7 years!; my enNF furiously hoovered, to tell me I "had no rights" and was "emotionally strong enough to endure (their) cruelty"!  After all those years of fear and trepidation, I found Nc transition to be much easier than expected, my fortitude bolstered by my parents' post-NC bad behavior, which continues to be conveyed to be via disinheritance paperwork, and my unintentionally misguided young adult DS (who remains in-semi-contact with his grandparents). 

NC allowed me, the openly disdained SG "dutiful daughter", to be emotionally honest with myself, and with my npd-enmeshed parents and GC nsis.  There were no positive attributes to remaining in-contact with them for me.  The entire negative emotional price paid in maintaining these relationships was mine solely to bear.  I was the SG target, period, valued only for my usefulness, whether as "free labor" and object of disdain and disrespect.  I now value myself more than that, and finally acted upon that..

[Starlightgirl]

Dh & I initially desired VVVLC but this enraged his controlling parents.  With them, it's "my way or the highway."

Their anger about our VVVLC meant my in-laws engaged in a very hostile & overt smear campaign on how we were taking advantage of them and mistreating them.

Consequently, extended family members and neighbors would sneer at us, make snarky remarks.

Dh's parents accusations were outlandish.  They are retired, living modestly in a condo but they were telling ALL that they are subsidizing our lifestyle, paying our bills.  And since they refuse to give us more money, we decided to use our kids as pawns by withholding them until they cough up some major cash.

I mean, really?  Wow. 

So—for our protection—we went NC. 

Completely.

So yeah, they sent cards to our kids, claiming they loved them so. 

But we feel no guilt going NC because we had to in order to stop the smear campaign.

And we really enjoy the peace and calmness.  VVLC, in our case, ramped up the drama. 

[Oscen]

Hi all, thank you so much for sharing your stories.
I'm sorry you've all experienced these difficulties but glad that you're all finding your way through.
Trusting your gut is always useful advice. Thank you for reinforcing this to me and supporting me in doing what is right for me - I need it so much, so I really appreciate it!

I think the thing I find so tough is, could I honestly say I tried everything to fix this relationship before going NC? And I honestly couldn't.
Sure, conversations with my parents sap my energy and drain my spirit, and attempts to address this directly are ignored or rebuffed.
However, if I were to explain my situation to a "normal" person, do I think I could make them understand? No, I don't think so.

That is not reason enough not to  go through with it, but it does make it quite daunting.
I have to be pretty damn sure of myself that it's the right thing to do... and I'm not sure I'm quite there yet.
I think I need to get back into therapy and keep exploring these inner conflicts.

Any suggestions about how to feel more confident in my decision-making process would be appreciated....

[LifeIsWorthLiving]

The way my parents worked on me was by ignoring me when I'm in their presence alone and acting very warm and eager to appear like they love me when we are in public (unless they were trying to show someone that I was worthless. Then they would also ignore me in front of those witnesses.... But I think it's because they had already talked about me to those people). They accuse me of all sorts of things behind my back but never bring those things up in person. When I try to explain all of this to people they think I'm being petty or something.

I can see it as systematic isolation and silent treatment that they do knowing it hurts me. They did this to me years ago after I confided in them that I was having suicidal thoughts. I think they wanted me to hurt myself. Thank goodness I found real help and support. I'm doing fine now.

Anyway, my point is, a lot of people that are still in the FOG won't get it. You will have to figure out who you can confide in and get advice from and then block out what other people say or think of your decision. I failed to do this just a few months ago and had a sister drive me to tears for not visiting my aged parents around the holidays. My gut was right. Now my sister knows that too now.

My advice is listen to your gut. Other people are not on the receiving end of the abuse. My parents know what to do to hurt each one of their kids, so they do things that hurt me that wouldn't bother my sister. They do things to hurt her that wouldn't bother me. Your gut knows better than anyone else.

If you can find a good therapist, do it. It's so helpful.

[illogical]

Hi Oscen,

Maybe consider that going NC doesn't have to be a permanent thing.  You and you alone get to decide when and how much you will engage.  I understand how you don't want to orphan yourself, as I have been in that mindset also.  After much reflecting on my childhood, however, I saw that I had never fit in with the family.  As JustKathy said, I was pretty much an orphan anyway.

You could try going NC for awhile, until you feel like you are more in control-- to give you distance which may be what you need to sort things out.  If it didn't feel right, you could resume contact.  Like I said, you get to decide here.  Just knowing that may make you feel more in control of your life.  You sound like you've done a great deal of introspection here.  I think you are wise to take some time to make the decision, as it is a decision of last resort and very difficult to make.  I think one has to be very grounded in their reality and expect that some friends and family won't understand and are likely to be "collateral damage" in this, meaning they will pull away from you.

I gradually cut contact before I went NC.  It sounds like you have cut way back on your contact.   Maybe consider proceeding with cutting contact to VVLC and see how it goes.  Follow your gut and I don't think you can go wrong.  Just remember if it doesn't work out, you can re-engage.  Finding that balance of what you are willing to tolerate and not tolerate is a lot of trial and error, at least it was for me.  I was VLC for about a year and a half before I went NC with my NM and GC brother.  I just came to the point where every contact with them was a struggle, no matter if it was just a monthly visit or phone call.  One day I just said to myself that I couldn't do it anymore.  And I never looked back.  Take care!

[Oscen]

Hi guys, thanks for the kind words. I think seeing LC or NC as not necessarily permanent is helpful.

M has been ill lately and I was really upset by the news, far more than I had thought I would be, and as much as I have the urge to reach out to comfort her, I know that it will end in her hurting me in some way. I'm concerned that the situation is being used against me, so that's brought the LC vs NC question to the fore.

I just can't keep approaching her, even though I have deep feelings for her, my insides have given upon fighting that fight, being hyper-vigilant around her.
But I am struggling to properly pull away, to cut the cord. It'll never make me look good. I suppose I need to stop worrying about that once and for all.

Thanks again.

[Hilltop]

Hi Oscen, I am new to NC.  A while back I got rid of our home phone.  I found phone calls with my mother difficult as it was easy for her to say things and then deny or say I was sensitive or misunderstood.  That was my first step.  That meant that the only way my mother communicated with me was via email and text, all written communication, which meant she was much nicer of course.

That didn't stop the problems from when I would visit her.  So recently I decided to try NC, I blocked my mother on my mobile phone so I can't receive any text or calls.  At this stage I am feeling peace.  At Easter I felt bad so I unblocked the phone sent a Easter text and then blocked it again.

For me I guess I have space to get my head right.  I'm not sure where this will go.  I'm not thinking of this as a definite end, just something I'll do for now while it seems right for me.  What you wrote "conversations with my parents sap my energy and drain my spirit, and attempts to address this directly are ignored or rebuffed", I could have written this about my mother. At the moment I just feel the need to move on from being hurt and having my spirit drained.

[moglow]

You could try going NC for awhile, until you feel like you are more in control-- to give you distance which may be what you need to sort things out.  If it didn't feel right, you could resume contact.  Like I said, you get to decide here.  Just knowing that may make you feel more in control of your life.  You sound like you've done a great deal of introspection here.  I think you are wise to take some time to make the decision, as it is a decision of last resort and very difficult to make.  I think one has to be very grounded in their reality and expect that some friends and family won't understand and are likely to be "collateral damage" in this, meaning they will pull away from you.

I gradually cut contact before I went NC.  It sounds like you have cut way back on your contact.   Maybe consider proceeding with cutting contact to VVLC and see how it goes.  Follow your gut and I don't think you can go wrong.  Just remember if it doesn't work out, you can re-engage.  Finding that balance of what you are willing to tolerate and not tolerate is a lot of trial and error, at least it was for me.

THIS, very much this! You don't *have to* do anything or have any hard and fast rules here, other than what feels best for you. Like others, I've had more than one intentional periods of no contact (not silent treatment!) with my mother. I needed the breaks to gather myself, give myself some thinking space without her demands of "more." A few times I just had to get away from her so I could find a way to respond, rather that the auto react I  had for so long.

Since resuming contact after the last time I stepped away, it's much less than ever before. My *internal* contact with and attachment to her is less than, if you will. That break really showed me how detrimental the whole relationship is to my health as a whole, how little positive it provides either of us. Taking a break this time really gave me clarity - painful in some ways, but needed.

The little contact with mine the past six months has resulted in either her complaining or picking a fight. Literally. Mother is too focused on pooching out her lips in a pout over imagined wrongs to even attempt any kind of real connection or conversation. I tried to deflect, refocus to something positive or productive, and within minutes she ends the call as if a timer went off in her mind. So I've stopped trying. It's all superficial, nothing more than I'd engage in the line at the grocery store.

Sometimes I really think we NEED that distance to see what's right in front of us. You may see things you never expected or it may be the confirmation you need. Do what's right for you, and let other opinions be damned. They don't have to live in your mind and heart, and likely haven't experienced what you have. I honestly believe those "but s/he's your mother/father" people mean well. It's just not theirs to say what's best for YOU.

[Oscen]

Hi there, I've had a new insight into grey rock vs low contact - realised I was misunderstanding the term "grey rock" in the first place.

I didn't realise "grey rock" doesn't refer to the amount of contact (though it should, by definition, be minimal), but to the quality of contact.
Grey rock means being emotionally unreactive and not giving energy in any way so as not to feed the narc supply.

I have been doing this from a very early age, but erratically; I stopped telling M about stuff going on at school from about age 13 and rarely shared my thoughts and opinions.
It was the healthiest, most adaptive thing to do in that environment as a child powerless to leave, but it was a double-edged sword and disrupted my psychological development.
I didn't learn to understand and regulate my inner world because I wasn't sharing it with my primary carer.

As I've been getting emotionally healthier and more confident in myself throughout adulthood, I've revealed my thoughts, observations and feelings to M, only to have them slapped down.
When this has happened, I've retreated back into uncertainty in myself.
I was unconsciously taking the emotional healing and from other areas of life and applying it to my relationship with my M; trying to get strokes from her because I'd learned new tricks.
I didn't see consciously that grey rock is the best way to interact with a broken person like M, and the normal rules (which I hadn't learned as a kid but am learning now) do not apply.

The issue here is not grey rock vs no contact.
The choice is low contact vs no contact.
Grey rock is a given, but now I am doing it consciously. It's my choice, my strategy. I feel more empowered.

[Bluebell]

Hi Oscen

I've been reading your replies, and you have such a lot of wise comments.

All I can say is that you don't have to make any choice at the moment if you are not sure.  One good thing about your mother not contacting you at the moment is that you can essentially 'do nothing'.  I spent more than 7 years, going through phases of very little contact, polite civil contact, contact only for my children (her grandchildren) and it's only been the last year that I've cut contact completely, even stopping my teenage daughter from seeing her (my 18 year old son made his own decision to stop seeing her).  So, you know, it took a long time coming!    In the early years I exhausted myself in trying to reach out to her; trying to understand her; trying to help her - looking back, she sucked all the life out of me.  I'm glad that I can look back and know that I tried, but I can see now that I was the only one trying - and she was the mother - you know - not me. 
I have my own children and it really puts things into perspective when I think whether I could go for 7 plus years with little or no contact with them.  If my teenage daughter and I have cross words - which we do - I can't go to bed without going in her room to kiss her goodnight and make it OK. 

If it wasn't for my children, then I know that I would have cut contact a lot sooner.  I used to think that she genuinly cared for them but now I'm not so sure.  Once she realised that she had no control over me or her grandchildren, it seemed that she was only too happy to drop us.

I think that everyone will get to a point where they are done with trying and acknowledge there is nothing there for them - cos if there was something there - they would let you know about it.  I hope that doesn't sound too harsh. 

I did have one final reach out to my brother and my father but my father ignored me and my brother let me know that he was invested in keeping up the family dysfunction. 

Sorry, I've typed this quickly - hope this helps.   I'm new here and it's so good that we can talk about these things.  Best wishes.

[Oscen]

Hi Bluebell, thank you for your wise words; feeling like I need to make a decision right now doesn't help.

If I'm honest, I can't say that I've tried everything I could. I haven't bashed myself senseless throwing myself against that brick wall again and again. I'm not completely depleted and defeated yet. I feel like I should get there before I allow myself to give up... but the common sense, subconscious part of me that's running the show would never let me go that far.
At what point can we give ourselves permission to cut and run? I'm done, energetically if not emotionally, but guilt is stopping me.

This phrase: if there was something there - they would let you know about it" makes sense - they haven't let me know about it.
The sensible thing is to keep contact minimal and consciously restrict when and how much I reply to what comes my way. I think I can do this in good conscience.

[illogical]

...At what point can we give ourselves permission to cut and run? I'm done, energetically if not emotionally, but guilt is stopping me.

My answer is "whenever it feels right for you".  But I think it has to feel right, and your gut will tell you when that time comes, if it does. 

...The sensible thing is to keep contact minimal and consciously restrict when and how much I reply to what comes my way. I think I can do this in good conscience.

You are on the right track here.  Keep contact minimal and enforce your boundaries.  This buys you time until you can sort out your feelings.  You adjust your plan as needed.   

[JustKat]

At what point can we give ourselves permission to cut and run?

I have to echo illogical in saying that your gut will tell you when the time is right. In my case it was a "final straw" moment. I was VLC at the time and hadn't really been thinking at all about going NC. Nmother called one day and I actually had the courage to confront her over something terrible she had done. She wasn't used to being called out on her actions and melted down, went completely infantile. She actually put the phone down and started crying and calling for my father to help her because I was picking on her and being so mean. At that point, I just hung up. I never spoke to her again after that. NC just happened, rather quickly and unexpectedly.

You'll know when the time is right, and depending on the circumstances, you may not feel any guilt at all. My Nmother was so completely unhinged when I did it that I never felt guilt, only relief in knowing I was finally free.

[moglow]

At what point can we give ourselves permission to cut and run? I'm done, energetically if not emotionally, but guilt is stopping me.

Double-edged answer here - We *can* (implying ability) do whatever is best whenever we get there. Giving ourselves *permission* to go with that ability is harder, I think because of the deeply ingrained sense of obligation so many of us have. We've been taught to obey and told to get over it, even told that we're wrong for so long, I'm not sure some of us trust our own judgment anymore.

I tend to err on the side of caution. I give a chance, then another and another, continually looking at that light at the end of the tunnel, the bright side of the cloud. It's not always been to my benefit, more often with mother it's to my detriment.

But ultimately when I reach "that point" in my mind, I'm just done. I stop feeling I need to explain it to anyone, and don't try even when they continue to push for some "acceptable" answer I just can't give.  I think that point is different for everyone, as are the journeys that bring us there.

While I'm very limited contact with mine, I won't lie and say I wish there was more. I used to but not anymore. It is what it is and as contact lessens so does my  desire for more. Pretty much any ties that truly bind have been obliterated for me - I don't even wish her ill or look for payback anymore. She built this dragon with her consistent abuse, neglect and deceit, she gets to live with the outcome.