Just another thing to suck up for the sake of ds

[Associate of Daniel]

The story so far:

Age 7, ds arrives home from uNPD exH with a laptop - with access to internet.

Age 8, he arrives home with an ipad - with access to internet and messaging, facetime etc.. ds is given strict instructions by uNPD exH not to give me the password. Ds obeys.

Age 9 (10?) He arrives home with an ipod.

None of them with forewarning or discussion with me.

At 1st I don't have an iphone so I can't text to his ipad when he's with uNPD exH.

So to that point all texting between ds and me is done via my phone and uNPD exH and his uNPD wife's phone. They usually don't pass on my messages and he rarely texts me.

One set of holidays I send an old dumbphone (pre aid, no internet or facetime etc) with ds to uNPD exH's so he can text me during his 2 - 3 week stay if he wants.

It's confiscated and ds is banned from using it. It's sent back to me. It mysteriously comes back with uNPD smum's phone number in the contacts. The only contact apart from me.

I get a 2nd hand iPhone and for a fair while am "allowed" to text ds while he's with uNPD exH.

Every now and then there's a "glitch" which mysteriously makes the ipad block only my number.

Then the uNPD exH sets the ipad so that my messages don't appear on ds's home screen.

UNPD exH refuses to change it back.

Then day before ds's 12th birthday, uNPD exH chucks a tanty and no longer allows ds to bring home the ipad to my place. One reason given to ds. A different reason given to me. Both reasons petty. Both blaming me.

Ds devastated.

Communication now limited to texting between my and uNPD ExH and his uNPD wife's phone.

Once again they don't pass on messages.

I get another 2nd hand iphone (no sim card) for ds to play games.

A few weeks ago I finally get internet on at my house.

Ds can now text friends etc cos of internet at home.

Tonight I discover the uNPD smum has texted ds on his (no sim) phone.

So we're back to: they can text him on his device when he's with me but I'm blocked from texting him on his device at uNPD exH's house. All my texts have to go through their phones - and they usually don't pass on the texts.

I'm not asking so much for advice. Just venting.



AOD

[athene1399]

What the heck!  The child in me wants to say you should block their number when he's at your place, but I'm sure there would be repercussions. I'm sorry they do stuff like this to you. Maybe one day DS will see how unfair it is to you. It is sad that they have to act like children to "get back at you" or whatever it is that they are trying to do. At least you can say you've never stooped to their level. Clearly they feel threatened by you or they wouldn't be pulling these pranks all the time. You should try to take it as a compliment...a weird, annoying compliment. 

[findjoy81]

So very sad, for you and for your son.  In the end, I think your son will see through all of this silliness.  He'll see the unfairness of it too. 

[Stepping lightly]

Hi AoD,

I get how frustrating it is!  Honestly, with the iPad, if you can't have the password while he is at your house, I would confiscate it. It's  not safe for kids to have free roaming access on the internet, and your oversight would be critical.

Contact in our situation with BM is quite frustrating as well.  BM tells the kids to contact her when they are at our house, but we are not allowed to request the kids contact us- well...let me rephrase that; our CO says the kids can initiate phone calls, not the parents.  The kids are scared to initiate phone calls from BM's because it causes her to go into a rage.  BM tells the kids to initiate phone calls from our home...thereby using the loophole in the CO. 

We have recently gotten an extra cell phone for the kids to use in certain circumstances, like they are at an event and want to call us to pick them up etc.  DSD has sorta hogged it and uses it to text her friends a lot, which we really don't mind as we want her to be able to talk to her friends. She does not text BM, which is a relief.  However, DSS recently picked it up while we were on vacation and every time he had it he was texting BM....this shocked us as DSS is the scapegoat and generally wants nothing to do with BM when he's with us.  Unfortunately, we can't say "don't text your mom", so we are trying to figure out was that BM isn't constantly updated with the activities during our time.  Luckily, after vacation DSS lost interest.  DSD doesn't text because BM has ruled that the kids aren't allowed to have a cellphone until they are some specific age, so DSD is afraid BM will think she has a cell phone and she will get in trouble. 

[Penny Lane]

Exact same thing here! Kids' mom blocks communications from DH while insisting on a constant flow of information the other way.

One recent frustrating example was when BM texted me (which she is not supposed to do except in emergencies) something allegedly DSD wanted me to know. DH responded via text a very sweet message. Next time we saw her SD asked about the thing, which DH had already answered. She never saw DH's message to her, and she had been worrying about it all weekend.

BM's latest thing is having "the kids" text DH about something she's mad about. Like, saying they want to spend more time with her or "need" DH to do something for BM. Every time he asks her to stop putting the kids in the middle and she says "they wanted to text you about this." I'm certain they're not writing the messages and I'm not sure they even knew about them.

And yet when he calls to talk to them she often won't make time to pick up the phone. Or she'll wait to call back until the kids are in the middle of watching a movie or something so they don't want to talk. Sometimes she'll hover over them and "correct" what they're saying, aka tell them not to let DH know about all the ways she's violating the parenting plan. Considering how stressed it makes DH and for how much she interferes with the calls, I'm not sure the kids are getting any benefit at all from him calling when they're with her for short periods. Which is sad! A brief check in with their stable parent could be really good for them.

DSS11 has started asking for a phone "so mom can call me without having to go through dad." Hmmmmm, I wonder who doesn't like it that mom has to call dad's phone? Pretty sure DSS has never had a problem with it. Although he does want a phone anyway so I think he's just using her reasoning to try to get something he already wants.

Stepping Lightly, I don't know how you handle it because I HATE when BM tells the kids they have to call her. They get super stressed and anxious and they act like DH is going to try to prevent it, even though he has never done that. Then if she doesn't pick up they feel like they have to wait around for her. It's totally a control thing, not at all about keeping in touch with the kids. She does this a lot when we're on vacation, I guess so the kids will spend their time stressing about calling her rather than actually having fun. (Then when they do call she often doesn't even ask them about their day, and sometimes she'll actually interrupt what they're telling her to tell them about HER day, including, once, a blow-by-blow of all the meetings she went to at work.)

AOD, I take some comfort in believing that the kids will look back on their childhood and see that dad wasn't trying to disrupt their relationship with their mom, but that vice versa isn't true. And they will appreciate him for that. I think it will be the same for your son, that he will really appreciate that you didn't get in the way of his relationship with his dad and stepmom.

In the meantime, though, I'm with you on the emojis.

[findjoy81]

It is so despicable when they put kids in the middle and plant ideas in their heads...

My ex has planted that our boys need to call him repeatedly when they're with me.  They get anxious when they forget to ask to call, that he'll get mad at them. 
Once, I asked for a stuffed animal of my son's that he forgot to be dropped off (he is 5 years old, and he was at the start of 6 days with me) and my ex's response was to ask what I tell the kids when they ask for more time with him?  First - that response has nothing to do with asking for a stuffed animal.  Second - they don't ask for more time with him.  But I can tell he is trying to push it in their heads that he has less time with them, and therefore I'm the evil time-thief keeping them from their dad.  They also ask me why I'm "stealing" money from their dad (child support isn't stealing money AND... he hasn't paid anything this year anyway).

Let kids be kids. I with they would stop putting unrealistic and unfair expectations on them. Stop playing their selfish mind games using them.  Stop making them responsible for things they shouldn't be responsible for, like communicating with the other parent.  Just.  stop.  please....

[hhaw]

The PDs can't allow kids to be kids. 

PDs see children as leverage, and they wield it with impunity and entitlement.

They don't see the harm, or understand it. 

They think what's good for the PD is good for the kids.  That's how their brains work. 

[Stepping lightly]

We try to get the "required" phone calls done early in our vacations, if we can.  It definitely impacts the kids as they are super anxious until it's done.  This past vacation, the kids called their mom and I could hear her and/BF because they had it on speaker phone.  We had adjoining hotel rooms, so I closed the door and cranked up our TV.  I'm not even curious what she says to them anymore...it's manipulative and sick...and just hearing their voices is like nails on a chalkboard. 

[Penny Lane]

Once, I asked for a stuffed animal of my son's that he forgot to be dropped off (he is 5 years old, and he was at the start of 6 days with me) and my ex's response was to ask what I tell the kids when they ask for more time with him?

That's an astounding change of subject. Sometimes when BM does stuff like that I'm like, do you see how immature you're acting and how transparent you're being??? But she never does, and it's the kids that ultimately suffer.

One time she took the kids on vacation for more than a week and dropped them off several hours late, like late afternoon rather than first thing in the morning. Right off the bat one of the kids says "Dad, how come you don't ever let us spend time with mom?" I could have died of frustration right there, thank goodness DH handled it and he did it well.

She often says that she should have more time with the kids because they ask to see her (like on DH's holidays). Well you know what, they say they want to see us during her time too. We tell them that this is the schedule and we hope they have a great time at their mom's and we can't wait to hear about it when they get back!

We try to get the "required" phone calls done early in our vacations, if we can.  It definitely impacts the kids as they are super anxious until it's done. 

Our latest vacation was really beyond the pale. She had a (possibly fabricated) "family tragedy" that she decided the kids needed constant updates on. I'm pretty sure she told them that DH was going to keep her from calling them so they had to make sure to call her every night. She told DH something like "I don't want to ruin your vacation but..." Translation: She tried her hardest to ruin the vacation by making the kids really sad during calls. Full on crying, putting everyone else in the room on the phone with them to talk about it, even trying to tell them that THEY were (or should be) sad about it. Sent DH daily updates about this alleged tragedy and with instructions on how to talk to the kids about it. The kids were total champions about it, they went full on grey rock. "Sorry to hear that mom. I'm gonna try not to think about it. Gotta go!" She stopped calling halfway through, I guess after she realized she couldn't ruin the trip, and the kids didn't ask to call so that ended the issue. I was so proud of the kids for how they handled it. I do worry that they paid for it, emotionally, after they got back. But we never heard about this "tragedy" again.

[Associate of Daniel]

Thanks, Everyone. Doesn't it just make you want to scream?

Another thing:  a couple of months ago ds told me that he and uNPD exH had planned for ds to ring him every Wednesday night at 7.30pm.

No asking if the time or night would be ok with me.

No consulting the court orders that say no communication after 7pm.

I suggested to uNPD exH that we stick to the court ordered time and that he ring ds instead, since he works long hours and we don't know when he'd be free.  I also said limiting the time to 15 minutes would be a good idea and that all of these things would  apply to me when ds is with uNPD exH.

Cue narc rage and refusal.

So ds now feels obligated to ring every Wed.

This, after 6 and a half years of uNPD exH rarely contacting ds and vice versa. I could count on one hand how many times uNPD exH has initiated contact with ds while ds was in my care.

All to look good for court, I guess.

I don't have an issue with ds and uNPD exH speaking on the phone.

I have an issue with uNPD exH demanding that ds do all the work and making him feel bad if he doesn't ring.

And I have an issue with the fact that I was not consulted.

I normally wouldn't request time limits or specific times. But we're dealing uNPDs here and boundries need to be put in place to protect ds and my personal space.

AOD

[hhaw]

And so.....

your testimony will include all those years of PD NOT contacting son.... even though PD's putting on a show "for court" now.... PD can't change that history, and he'll have an interesting time explaining it, IME.

When my MIL was asked why she didn't attend ONE Grandparent event, for my children, her responses were......
surprising.

Response 1.  hhaw's children have other Grandparents, who attended everything, and my other Grandchildren didn't have another set so I chose those Grandchildren.  (MIL didn't understand how she'd appear to the Judge as a GP who NEVER EVER EVER attended ANYTHING for her Grandchildren.)
                   2.  The traffic was awful, and I would have been putting my life in jeopardy driving in it. (never mind she drove in the same traffic for "the other grandchildren."
                   3.   I didn't like being around hhaw's friends and people she knows..... it made me uncomfortable. 

Think about what the PD might use as excuse for his lack of participation, and contact with ds over the years.   Be ready to counter that with a bit of reality. 

IME Judges pay attention to details like this.  It's not easy for Pds to convince a Judge that they're devoted, invested, and loving parents when they've spent the majority of their time NOT being devoted, invested, or loving parents, IME.

Just continue being calm, considerate, and willing to collaborate.  Make a note of the PD's request for 7pm phone calls, and take notes on how it's disrupting DS's evening, and how the PD raged when you suggested following the ORDER.  Honestly, there must be a pretty long list of things that aren't in the ORDER, and having all that listed, with details, how your son is effected (feels pressure, feels guilt, feels he must caretake the PD's feelings, feels responsible for the PD's feelings, etc.) should be listed, and I'm talking about every conversation.

MIL used to pressure my kids to set up visitation, and make them feel responsible for it.... "Have your mom set up visitation next weekend" blah blah, but MIL didn't tell the girls that she'd have to sign up for supervision with a supervision company, do the paperwork, and pay for it BEFORE the next visit could go forward.

It got to the point where the kids would look at me helplessly, and hand the hand back.... they were getting crushed by the pressure, and didn't know what to say. 

That's why the calls stopped. 

Now, we didn't have an Order.  Everything was up to me at that point.

You have to worry about upsetting your son, when you fail to comply with PD or fail to allow son to comply.  That's worrisome to me.  I hate the idea that D is upset over his father's reaction to not receiving a phone call.  I'd be very tempted to make the calls early, in compliance with the Order, then have a back and forth over text or e mail, so the PD can rage about it, and you can document it. 

Remember to list the reasons an earlier phone call is best for D. 

PDs tend to want what they want when they want it, without regard for the children.

Let him put it in writing.

[athene1399]

I think hhaw has a great suggestion. Follow the order and document your ex's reactions. Or suggest he follow the order then document his reaction. None of that can look good for him. And then in court note how the agreement says no calls past 7 pm and you can show how calling after 7 pm negatively affects DS and throws off his routine. Then show how your ex refused to follow the order after you asked him to. And like hhaw said, show how this was never a problem before because you ex didn't demand phone calls.