Strange request, genuine or flying monkey?

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Gromit

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Strange request, genuine or flying monkey?
« on: May 13, 2019, 04:04:46 PM »
Not sure this is the correct place to put this so feel free to move it.
I believe my mother is the N. I have been vlc to NC for years and now seem to be with my only sibling, who, I believe, has traits.

Now my BIL has contacted me with a very long text msg. He is close to completing a counselling qualification, (seriously? Had no idea, I know his daughter was one, she recommended the training I tried, but he is 68!). He wants to do a project for it on the effect of covert narcissism on siblings. He believes my M is a covert narcissist. So, he wants to interview me, in person, at a time to suit me. All confidential, of course.

I replied I was happy to do so, lots of resources I can talk about. Then I began to wonder........what is this? I know I only got into my 2nd year of training but didn't have to do this. I last saw him about 3 years ago when he suggested the disastrous idea of sharing information with my sister. Disastrous because she really wasn't up for it. I wonder if he has even broached this with her. He never mentioned doing counselling training then, and it does take years.

My OH, says, 'no way' but then, it isn't him doing it.

I asked my BIL to send me his email address as I did not want to send a long text, but he has not yet.

I am sure the advice from here will be to proceed with caution.

Has anyone here reached the end of counselling training in order to co-ob orate his story? I have a feeling that projects should be based on client cases only not family members.

Surely, if he has done his research he should be able to see the traits in my sister and their own co-dependency issues? He would have had to have had some therapy himself too.

So many questions and, as with most of my family, no answers.

G


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Gromit

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Re: Strange request, genuine or flying monkey?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2019, 08:12:07 AM »
Re-reading the message it is for a research project that he needs to do to qualify.

I have his email address now and have asked him about the course, who runs it, what modality, whether my sister is aware of this project and ok with it and also about his own therapy and client experience to see if it is genuine.

G

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all4peace

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Re: Strange request, genuine or flying monkey?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2019, 10:15:29 AM »
If your gut says this isn't trustworthy, I'd listen to your gut. He's shown himself in the past to not have a good sense of boundaries.

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Penny Lane

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Re: Strange request, genuine or flying monkey?
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2019, 10:24:24 AM »
My general policy is to treat any potential flying monkeys as if they are (at minimum) going to share anything I say with the PD. I've never been sorry I had this policy.

I think there's still time to back out of this and let him know you're sorry, after more thought this doesn't seem like something you could participate in. No need to JADE, just a simple backing out.

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Call Me Cordelia

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Re: Strange request, genuine or flying monkey?
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2019, 11:09:39 AM »
This smells like a steaming pile of nope. IF he's telling the truth, any counseling program worth a dime would cover conflict of interest. He's too close to the subject to be any kind of objective. In the real world this would invalidate his results. Sorry you can't help!  :wave:

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Gromit

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Re: Strange request, genuine or flying monkey?
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2019, 01:39:43 PM »
This smells like a steaming pile of nope. IF he's telling the truth, any counseling program worth a dime would cover conflict of interest. He's too close to the subject to be any kind of objective. In the real world this would invalidate his results. Sorry you can't help!  :wave:

I assumed this too so I checked it out with an ACOA person who has completed counselling training. Their opinion was that any research topic or dissertation would have to be approved by the tutor/supervisor, so perhaps he has not sought that out yet.

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Gromit

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Re: Strange request, genuine or flying monkey?
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2019, 01:41:03 PM »
If your gut says this isn't trustworthy, I'd listen to your gut. He's shown himself in the past to not have a good sense of boundaries.
Yes, now you come to mention it he has form for not sticking to his word. Who would even accept him on a counselling course?

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Starboard Song

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Re: Strange request, genuine or flying monkey?
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2019, 02:30:12 PM »
I encourage people to go lightly on flying monkey judgements. I would decline to participate on other grounds.

Just as a best friend is a bad choice of a business partner, a sibling or in-law is a bad choice for a counseling project. If I were asked to participate in a study on kissing styles, where you kiss someone in a lab, I'd do it, even though I am happily married. But not if the technician were my sister. Stupid analogy, I guess, but it seems to work:

"These are very personal matters, to me, and I am very careful with them. I am sure you understand. I fear I would not be comfortable being totally honest, and you deserve total honesty from all your subjects. Therefore I have to say no, but I hope you find the subjects you need."

I'd walk away from this one with a clear conscience and without any toxic residue. Let the flying monkey diagnosis go.
Radical Acceptance, by Brach   |   Self-Compassion, by Neff    |   Mindfulness, by Williams   |   The Book of Joy, by the Dalai Lama and Tutu
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Gromit

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Re: Strange request, genuine or flying monkey?
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2019, 03:23:49 PM »
I encourage people to go lightly on flying monkey judgements. I would decline to participate on other grounds.

Just as a best friend is a bad choice of a business partner, a sibling or in-law is a bad choice for a counseling project. If I were asked to participate in a study on kissing styles, where you kiss someone in a lab, I'd do it, even though I am happily married. But not if the technician were my sister. Stupid analogy, I guess, but it seems to work:

"These are very personal matters, to me, and I am very careful with them. I am sure you understand. I fear I would not be comfortable being totally honest, and you deserve total honesty from all your subjects. Therefore I have to say no, but I hope you find the subjects you need."

I'd walk away from this one with a clear conscience and without any toxic residue. Let the flying monkey diagnosis go.

I like your style, I would not mention flying monkeys to anyone outside of OOTF or OOTS, I am not even sure that this is a flying monkey or just my BIL trying to get his head around the situation that exists in my FOO. I have stopped caring about the labels which could be attached to my mother, it is my recovery which is important, not the cause of her issues.
G

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guitarman

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Re: Strange request, genuine or flying monkey?
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2019, 06:49:07 AM »
I would politely decline any involvement with his research. It's too dangerous for you. He could use what he learns against you and pass information to your sister or other family members. It's not safe for you.

There were huge red flags raised for me when I read your post. Your participation all seems totally unethical. Maybe you can't see that.

You do not have to JADE Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain why you have changed your mind.

Please don't feel obliged to help him. He will have to work harder to find his own research participants on his own. It's not your problem.

Any reputable research project has to be passed by an ethics committee first. As others have said as you are related that would invalidate his research with you as he is not impartial and is biased.

I've taken part in several research projects and am always cautious about participating first until I have checked them all out. There should be a named supervisor overseeing it all.

Look after yourself first, not him.

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« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 06:51:01 AM by guitarman »
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Gromit

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Re: Strange request, genuine or flying monkey?
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2019, 07:45:08 AM »
I have had his answers to my questions, some of them. He declined to answer questions about client experience or personal therapy, to me those were important questions for anyone who participates in face to face interviews about narcissism because it would show he had considered their safety and his, but he just didn't see that.

The biggest red flag came at the end of his email when he revealed that my parents did not know he had been in training for the last  3 years, he and my sister have lied to them about his absences. How healthy is that!

I know I should keep it simple, decline politely but this may be the only chance I have to tell him what a dangerous idiot he is meddling in my life and I can do that without putting myself in any further harm because, thanks to his last interference my sister is estranged from me anyway.

It is sad to think people with so little self awareness are out there counselling vulnerable people.
G


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Call Me Cordelia

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Re: Strange request, genuine or flying monkey?
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2019, 08:03:37 AM »
Oh, man! :sharkbait:

I so understand the desire to lay it all out about his bad behavior. :pissed: Sounds like you have plenty of reasons to be angry with his meddling ways. And I understand the feelings of “I have nothing to lose.” But I doubt your BIL will take your words to heart... and if he finishes this counseling degree it would lend credibility to his smear campaign should he choose to launch one. And any kind of “attack” no matter how justified just gives him a pile of ammunition. Protect yourself. He reminds me a lot of my uNBIL, meddling in things that don’t concern him, unashamedly admitting to telling lies, and still expecting to be trusted implicitly. Maybe an unsent letter is safer.

Starboard Song, I’m always amazed at how you can be so charitable.

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Gromit

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Re: Strange request, genuine or flying monkey?
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2019, 08:59:52 AM »
Oh, man! :sharkbait:

I so understand the desire to lay it all out about his bad behavior. :pissed: Sounds like you have plenty of reasons to be angry with his meddling ways. And any kind of “attack” no matter how justified just gives him a pile of ammunition. Protect yourself.  Maybe an unsent letter is safer.

Starboard Song, I’m always amazed at how you can be so charitable.

Go on then, I can unload in a safe place like this or at my Adult Child group.
Why is it so hard to always be the grown-up?