Advice for making progress? I keep getting sucked in

[Penny20657]

Looking for some advice/reassurance on my current situation with my uNPD mom...

She recently had surgery on her arm. I had ignored her initial requests for me to pick her up from the hospital, and told her about a week prior that I was unable to do so, and reminded her the weekend prior and night before. The day of? Of course, I got two calls from the hospital to pick her up.

So what did I do? Went against the boundary I was trying to set, and I left work to pick her up. When I turned up, her sister was actually there! The most frustrating part was that I then stuck around to help get her prescription and bring her vehicle back to her apartment. THEN, after dropping off her prescription I let her talk to me for an hour about how her life sucks, including her explaining what happened several months ago that has been the catalyst for me being low contact with her (a very serious fight she had with this same (also uNPD) sister who picked her up from the hospital that both of them tried to get me to resolve).

She also made an upsetting comment to me (I'm expecting, due in a few months) that a few months to a year after a child arrives, men become jealous of the time their partner spends with the baby. I was finally able to say that was inappropriate and negative and that I didn't appreciate her saying that my partner (a man, which is why she was making the comment) is going to become jealous. Of course, she said this wasn't negative it's an observation that she (because of my father, of course, all of her observations about men are because of something *he* did) has made and other women she knows have made about "men in general" . Anyway, I finally left, and now coming back to this page I am realizing that what I should have used was Medium Chill. I'm still learning, I guess.

My current feelings of guilt/obligation are coming from a voicemail she left me today, sounding very cheery and saying that she's recovering well and wondering how my latest doctor's appointment went, and talking about the rain we had today. Because obviously by me showing up to the hospital all is forgiven and we are best buds again... 

My therapist has said before, she has me trained very well and knows exactly what to say/do to get to me. A part of me actually wants to reach out to her!
I guess what I'm really looking for is... I'm feeling frustrated with my progress (or rather, lack thereof) in building boundaries, using Medium Chill, etc... how have you all made the steps to get there? What am I missing? What should I be working on the most? I've looked through the toolbox and recognize many helpful tips/suggestions but I feel as though something still isn't "clicking" or I still don't have the courage to actually put them into action. Any tips would be appreciated, or even just confirmation that I am correctly interpreting the cheery voicemail as more of her guilt/manipulation tactics.

[WomanInterrupted]

Hi Penny - and welcome!   

Next time she needs a ride from the hospital and you've told her no, if the hospital or she calls you, tell them to call a TAXI to take her home.  You can't get away.  She'll have to take a cab or call an Uber.   

I was "it" (only child) to unBPD Didi and unNPD Ray, and started putting up boundaries like crazy:

1.  You need to go to the ER?  Call an ambulance.   

2.  You need a ride to the doctor?  Call a cab.   

3.  You need a ride home from the doctor or the hospital?  Call a cab.   

Just because they beckon, doesn't mean we HAVE to come.   

And I'd use that tactic for all future Dr. appointments, regarding her arm.  Lord knows she'll drop them on you at the last possible second, like you don't have anything better to do.   

A tactic so I didn't get stuck over there listening to tales of gloom was Always Be Moving.  You walk her in the house, buzz her on the cheek, and head for the door - I gotta go, bye!   

Or, you decide to stay half an hour - at that time, you just get up and start leaving, heading for the door while she's still nattering at you, get OUT the door (do NOT stand to chat for an hour at the door!), walk to your car and LEAVE.   

If talk turns negative - Medium Chill, then end the visit, as fast as possible with *no* stopping to chat further.  Be *firm* your intent - I gotta go.  I forgot I have to pick up something the pharmacy.  Bye!   

Congratulations on LO! 

I don't have kids myself, but know people who do, and have never known a normal parent to be jealous of the other parent, baby or the attention shown to that baby.  On Planet PD, that's a whole 'nother Oprah - and that's what's coloring her remarks.

What helped me make progress was getting *angry* at seeing how I was being *manipulated* and *used.*  Anger is a good motivator - and it will protect you, and help you say, "NO."   

Another thing you could try is buying the book "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend.  It's an eye-opener when it comes to normal boundaries we *should* have - but don't.

Another thing - be *patient* with yourself!  Rome wasn't built in a day and we all screw up, from time to time. 

I think every single one of us has had an, "ARRRRGH!  How did I get sucked into THAT!?" moment - because our parents are THAT manipulative, or skilled at pushing the buttons they installed when we were small to appease, placate, smooth over, and fix.  We *still* feel like it's our jobs when it's NOT - and sometimes it's a good idea to sit on anything for at least 24 hours before giving a definitive answer - such as that call, where she sounded cheery.

Do you think she'll *stay* cheery, or will it all end in complaints, bleats about her health, her sister, things *you should be doing*  - and other sundry crap, meant to drive you nuts?   

If that's the way the calls usually go, *sit with the discomfort and become comfortable with it.*  You are doing nothing wrong in NOT returning a call, even though she's got you conditioned to feel that way.

Maybe tomorrow, the idea of calling won't seem so important - or she'll leave you another message and start to get on your nerves.  You never know.

Coming Out of the FOG is NOT a one-size-fits-all, cookie-cutter process.  It varies from person to person, and situation to situation - but ultimately *you are the one in control of yourself, your time, your health and your finances.*  YOU get to call the shots and *not your mom.*   

So, if you were enjoying low contact, that's what you DO.  If you'd like even less contact than that - VVVLC - that's what you DO. 

If you want to block your mom's number for certain amounts of time - that's OKAY.  It's what you DO.

If you want to go NC - again, that's what you DO - and you can maintain NC by blocking all channels of communication (phone, texts, email, FB, Twitter, Linkdin and all other social media).

Please remember - this process is a marathon and not a sprint.  You WILL get there in having firm boundaries and mastering Medium Chill like a Jedi Master.

Just have faith in yourself. 

[illogical]

Very good advice from WI!     I agree with everything she said regarding boundary setting and how "one size doesn't fit all", as well as don't be too hard on yourself when you get sucked back in.

A trip to the hospital is difficult to resist, considering our "conditioning" or brainwashing.  I got sucked in to that drama after my enF died and my NM turned to me as her emotional surrogate husband.  It resulted in me being her chauffeur, psychologist, concierge, companion, errand girl-- you name it, I did it.  I wasn't Out of the FOG at the time but the situation quickly became toxic and I began researching NPD and my mother fit the model to a capital T.

NM used medical situations-- falls, impending surgery, doctor visits-- to manipulate me into being her go-to girl for everything.  So I can totally relate to your slipping back into the dysfunction and taking her home and getting her prescription.  That sort of thing was totally expected of me.

The Hospital Visit is a big test of boundaries, because we feel the pull of O and G in FOG in a big way.  But you recognize there is a problem and as is often said, that's half the battle!

The Delay Tactic that WI outlined will be your friend.  When you find yourself wanting to cave and do whatever your mother wants you to do, hedge.  Don't give an answer right away.  If she asks you to take her to her next doctor's appointment (could very well be on her current agenda) and you freeze and don't know what to say, give a vague answer.  "I don't know if that will work" or "I'll have to get back to you".  Then ignore her calls.  In my case, my NM was into immediate gratification.  Whatever it was she wanted, she wanted it NOW and getting it tomorrow wasn't going to cut it with her.   She was a pro at "creating a sense of urgency" in order to drive me to rush to her side.  Even a slight hesitation in my willingness to help often was enough to push her into getting someone else to do the job.

Look at the situation you described-- your mother pestered you and pestered you to come to the hospital and when you ignored her initial requests, lined up her sister!  So what I'm saying is that your mother will get by without your help.  Maybe try telling yourself that you are NOT the ONLY ONE who can "fix" things, because that's what she's conditioned you to think.  Delaying her requests may very well result in her getting someone else to comply.  Stay strong!  You are moving in the right direction!

[Penny20657]

Hi, thank you both so much for your feedback! I too, am an only child WI.

Those are some fantastic tactics to use, I'm going to put those as a note in my phone so I can easily refer to them the next time I have an interaction with her   I will also look into the book recommended!

You're totally right that anger helps to get some clarity! My upbringing has definitely been that even if something was done to upset me, my mom would get upset and I'd have to calm down enough to be able to fake a "sincere" enough apology to prevent her from escalating further, so I feel as though I've mastered amnesia and minimizing my anger – it's now hard to stick with it.

On first read of your comment about whether my mom would stay cheery, I thought "oh, well it's possible" – took the dog for a walk and read it again and you're right, it might start cheery but will likely go into *some* form of complaining. Most likely about how I've changed, etc, etc.

Thank you for the confidence booster and reassurance too – you're so right that it is about what works for me, not her! That patience thing... I'll have to work on that too haha

You're right illogical, she was able to get her sister to pick her up, which is part of the reason I was so mad at myself for caving in. My mom later said to me "you understand I wanted my *daughter* to come, not my sister" with tears in her eyes (they  have a strained relationship both being uNPD). I had told her on the phone she could call a cab or one of her two sisters and she said (crying) "I *can't* it *has* to be next of kin and I put your name down, and it's major surgery" (no, it wasn't major like open heart surgery) to which I had said "I don't know why you did that when you hadn't confirmed with me" ugh. Glad to hear someone else has had experience in that situation too, although I'm sorry to hear it was quite the toxic situation for you thank goodness you're here now!

[TriedTooHard]

Welcome Penny20657.  I couldn't have said it better than the previous 2 responders.

Congratulations on your baby!

Just want to mention what could happen with a mom like yours, as the due date gets closer.  She might get nicer and act in rational ways.  It will be confusing, but also make you realize she knows how she should have been behaving all along!  Don't ever let up on your boundaries, even if this happens.  If it sticks, great, but always remember she could revert back.

Another thing she might do is start hinting at how she is prepared to live her life as if she were the mother (not the grandmother) of a baby/young child once again.  For example, snubbing an opportunity to live in a place with less space, less maintenance, and more people in her age group, so she can remain in a larger place with good schools near by.  Talking about her "friends" who do full time day care for their grandchildren.  That actually happened with my mother, but I didn't take the bait, and now that she's older and has more medical appointments, she tries to guilt people how expensive cab fare is, and how she still needs to work to pay for her big house, and the vet bills for the animals that a 70 something single woman can't handle anymore.

[Cat of the Canals]

Hi Penny!

I'm really just starting my journey Out of the FOG with my uPD mom, and I've been pretty anxious about all the mistakes I might make in the future. It helps when I acknowledge that, yeah, I probably will screw up here and there. There will be times where I'll pop out of medium chill, fall for another guilt trip, loosen a boundary only to have it trampled beyond recognition, etc, etc. Then I tell myself that's OK. I'm still learning. And every mistake will only reinforce why we need to set boundaries in the first place.

Look at your scenario: Your mom insists over and over that you NEED to be the one to pick her up. You tell her that isn't possible. She ignores this, insists some more, and finally uses the hospital as almost a pseudo flying monkey. (Because you may be able to say NO to her, but can you say it to them? I probably would have done the same thing in your shoes, to be honest.)
So she gets her way. You drop what you're doing to go to her, no doubt feeling guilty at the idea of her being stranded there all alone (has she ever heard of Uber?), and it turns out she'd already made alternate arrangements. She didn't NEED you to come at all.
You were right all along. There was no particular reason you had to be the one to give her a ride. But when she didn't get her way, she manipulated. That's not how relationships founded on mutual respect work. Thus, boundaries.

Now what? Well, pat yourself on the back for having made the right decision initially. You were right. She didn't need you to pick her up. File that away for next time. A lot of what PD's say they "need" is actually what they "want."

As for the phone: Screen your calls whenever possible. Set up a custom ringtone on your phone for her number, and then you won't even have to look at the screen to know she's calling. Then you ignore it, and let it go to voicemail. Don't feel like even listening to the VM at the moment? Leave it for later. Listen and call back when it suits YOU.

Another thing I recently discovered: Install a "voicemail-to-text" app. It will automatically transcribe your voicemails into text, which is amazing because it eliminates all of their nasty "tone of voice" tricks. Seriously, when I read my mom's naggy/waify VMs rendered into black-and-white text, it's like they lose all power over making me feel guilty or triggered. They are just words on a screen.

Lastly, remember that you've been trained to react and respond to the PD a certain way over the course of a lifetime. It's going to take some time and practice to wire new reactions and responses.

[Penny20657]

The voicemail to text app sounds brilliant! I'll look into that too. That is a good point to keep in mind that at least I had correctly assessed the situation initially. Sometimes it's hard to keep those small things in perspective!

TriedTooHard, those are also excellent points about her behaviour before the baby is born... my mom had actually bought a house (she'd been living in an apartment previously) at the same time my husband and I bought a house. We hadn't even decided that we wanted children at the time, and yet she made a point of noting that the second bedroom in her home was for grandkids. (She doesn't live in the house anymore but still owns it.) The day this hospital incident occurred, she actually put her hand on my belly and said "how's my baby doing". Very disturbing.

Thanks again for the feedback, I really appreciate it!

[illogical]

...Now what? Well, pat yourself on the back for having made the right decision initially. You were right. She didn't need you to pick her up. File that away for next time. A lot of what PD's say they "need" is actually what they "want."

Amen to that!

Maybe pull back a bit and look at the overall picture.  Your mother is a narcissist.  You are having a baby.  That is so "up-staging" to her.  Nothing is more up-staging than you having a baby and she is relegated to the back corner of the theatre.

My NM reminded me that the "most important day in her life" was the day I was born.  That sounds very flattering, right?  Like she reminisced on how wonderful it was the day I came into life.  Yet really-- she remembered that day because all the ATTENTION was focused on her.  Sick, yes?   

Please be careful here.  Your mother wants to upstage you.  She knows that you will "come into the limelight" with the birth of your baby, and she wants to pass you up and garner the attention on herself.  Don't be surprised if she pulls a medical "emergency" to try to one-up you. 

My NM, when she found out my enF had Alzheimer's, faked a terminal illness to be front and center.  I kid you not.  Please be very careful here.  Your mother is not beyond staging a situation where she is front and center and you and your baby are in the back corner.  Maybe look to the past.  Has she pulled this stuff before? 

Please take ultimate care of yourself and your baby.  Your mother wants to cast a shadow on your day in the sun.   

[Andeza]

"how's my baby doing"

I woulda had a moment. It woulda went something like.... Excuuuuse me! That is my baby, and my belly! Hands off. But I'm temperamental that way Guess it's all that Irish...

So you're having a Godfather 3 moment, just when you think you're out, they pull you back in. Don't feel bad when it happens, because we all lose our footing from time to time. Just let it remind you what the truth looks like, how ugly it really is, and strengthen your boundaries for round 394. Listen to WI, she speaks truth.

I agree she'll pull something to make herself the focus. I would advise against letting them visit for at least a week after the birth. You can easily claim baby's well-being as the reason. Actually... in elden days they kept the newborns out of the public eye for at least a month, and that's about how long it takes for them to start developing an immune system, although it's not fully developed for quite some time after that.

DH and I agreed no visitors until the weekend after DS was born. Which was good, because the house was a wreck, I was in no condition to do anything about it, and no condition to do anything at all except eat, sleep, and shuffle to the restroom. My uBPDM, four months later, still hasn't come to visit because she's ticked about not being allowed to be there for the actual birth. She has, however, been to the ER at least twice since then for her "uncontrollable blood pressure," and has made sure I found out about both times. My response was something along the lines of "oh that's nice..." and subject change. I maintain my stance. No PD's in the delivery room. Ever.

My point? She's probably going to act out immediately after you give birth, and trust me you don't want that in the same room as you are. Depending on the circumstances of the delivery, you might be exhausted and she simply upsets you to tears, or you might be ready to kill anything within reach. If she's going to have "her moment" where she pulls the focus back to her, let it be far away from you. If my M had been in the room with me, begging to hold the baby, or sobbing for personal reasons, I would have lost my $#!& I was in no condition to put up with PD people being their PD best.

[Penny20657]

That's a good point about upstaging her, illogical! My mom does make those types of comments all the time about how they day I was born was the most important day in her life, and she has made similar comments about Mother's Day, etc. Funny thing about Mother's Day is that she came over to my house (uninvited) at about 11am and was upset that I hadn't called her. She of course didn't acknowledge it as a soon-to-be Mother's Day for me, because that isn't about *her*. And thanks for the heads up about her doing something to draw attention back to her... while I'm not 100% sure she's capable of pulling a fake medical emergency (she hasn't "stolen the spotlight" in quite those dramatic of ways before) I can see her doing other smaller things such as becoming super emotional about what an important day, the day she became a grandma is, or not letting anyone else hold the baby, etc.

That's a great perspective too, Andeza, and really puts the behaviour I expect she'll have into focus. I was hoping it might not be quite so dramatic, but I could see it going that way for sure.

M had been in the room with me, begging to hold the baby, or sobbing for personal reasons

I can totally see my mom doing something like this. I think you're right about needing to settle in a bit as new parents first before being mentally prepared for the negative and/or self-centered comments that are sure to come.

Definitely gives me lots to think about over the upcoming months!

[all4peace]

Hi, Penny20657, and welcome!

I think a huge part of the healing journey is learning to sit with our discomfort, and the discomfort of others. We've been trained well to comply, soothe, make things better. Things went very badly for us in childhood when we didn't do that, so it's deeply wired into our brains and nervous systems to do that. It takes a lot of discomfort, over and over, before it starts feeling "normal" to behave as a normal healthy adult would in a normal healthy relationship.

It's very normal to go back to our old behaviors many times before it starts becoming more natural to go to our new behaviors. Please don't beat yourself up. You're doing great to even be able to observe your behavior, observe the dynamic and see where the trouble is!