Friendships - ruined by PD family?

[FugitiveDaughter]

I've had time to think and there's something I need to ask you guys. I am turning into a pessimist which I've mostly never been and I hate it. Are people just really selfish these days or did I mess things up as a kid thanks to growing up in a family where half the people were NPDs? I have friends on Facebook, old friends I used to know as a kid and as a teen but most of them never talk to me. I've even taken the time to send them a message and ask how they are and what they've been doing in the past few years but mostly no-one answers.

This is so weird. I'm starting to think they're just FB friends because they want to be polite but don't really want to be friends. There were never any disagreements when we parted (often it was due to going to different schools like going from junior high to high school, college etc. and just not physically seeing each other every day). It is especially hurtful when a person was your best friend for years and then nothing. I've tried to think whether I was a terrible friend but I can't remember anything I did that would have been terrible. I was there for them, often supporting them with a difficult phase in life like the death of a loved one etc. On hindsight some of them have had PD traits themselves but those who don't just went silent on me. I am wondering if they are not accepting my life choices, opinions etc. I do know a few people stopped talking to me when I didn't have kids.

And then there's the fact that my family was odd and I doubt any of them realize what a struggle growing up in my family was. I wasn't allowed to go to places like my friends. I could try and ask if I can go to a disco or a concert etc. and they usually just said no. Not always but often. I don't know if any of them noticed anything strange though since mostly everyone thought my family was nice. I fear that I'm turning into a narcissist myself since so much of time is spent wondering what I did wrong and why people turn their back on me. I don't want to continue the circle of evil. I just don't know why I can't keep my friends it seems. Some have told me though that no-one needs to have new friends in middle age and it's too exhausting to get to know someone so they don't want to do it. Maybe I need to grow up? I know I've sometimes been a magnet for narcissists since some of my friends have turned out to be just that so that is part of the problem. Maybe I should just move in the middle of nowhere and never communicate with other people.

[Twinkletoes88]

Hey,

I'm sorry you are feeling sad about all this. The good thing is, you are clearly able to self reflect and question if you had any part to play in this. Obviously I don't know you personally but I just wanted to say that perhaps as you grew up and got healthier and learnt you were attracting narcs, you started to stick up for yourself more or you became less appealing because you weren't such a doormat?

What I mean is, it may not be that you have done anything wrong to "deserve" this but that aurally you've managed to shake off the toxic, unhealthy "friends" which is a GOOD thing.

I had two "friends" from work for 10 years. They were my "best friends". They also happened to be the same age as my mother and both very narcissistic. One was just like my mother and was absuive and cruel to me and the other was more covert and used guilt and obligation to manipulate me. I no longer see or speak to either of these women and I changed jobs.

Sadly I don't have hardly any friends now and I sometimes feel ashamed about that and can feel lonely but I guess but it's better to have few really decent friends who love and respect you, than to have lots of toxic "friends" who use or manipulate you. Maybe you could relate to this?

In my experience as we change and get healthier and heal, we lose a lot of people but the people we lose shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Ps the whole friends on Facebook thing is fake anyway. Who really has 300 friends? It's mainly for people to be nosey. I've recently come off of social media and I'm not missing it at all which has really surprised me. It was weird on my birthday not to get all the messages and likes but the people who really care have my number. Maybe you need to do a social media detox!!

I hope you feel better soon.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Oh FD, I so relate

My family is also almost entirely made up of NPDs and enablers. And my social life as a child and teen was sabotaged at every turn. I simply was not allowed to participate oftentimes because my parents didn't feel like giving me a ride or their overprotective fears. Drugs and drinking! Kidnappers! Or else they were coaching me in ways that made things worse, like telling me to respond to being left out by telling the other kids, "You're just jealous because I'm smarter than you." Not the way to win friends and influence people.  I think it was well known my family was odd, but I don't think anybody had any inkling of what it was really like.

My first therapist told me, if you're experiencing this much self doubt, I can guarantee you are not a narcissist. She also said that my self-consciousness and fears about how other people think of me were put on me by my parents. It's their shame I've been carrying all these years. It doesn't belong to me, so I can't resolve it but only let it go. Maybe that's true for you too.

I too am off Facebook and don't miss it. I communicate with nobody, and I mean nobody, from my so-called hometown. For me it was best to completely start over. Who are your friends and community in real life? People you see on a day-to-day basis? Do you have somebody you can call when you're having a bad day? A friend who might not live nearby but you can pick up the phone after a while and there's no awkwardness? Some people that are willing to help you out and you do the same for them? If the answer is "yes" I think you're doing great. If it's "not yet," that doesn't make you a failure by any means. Lots of people struggle with friendships and community in adulthood. Google "making friends in your 30s" if you want some reassurance. I agree that Facebook is fake and should not be any factor in your personal assessment of your social prowess.

Friendships are kind of like dating. Quality is way more important than quantity, and it takes awhile to sift through and find good matches. You've probably changed a lot, and they do too, so the people who were your friends may no longer be a great fit even if you still feel affection for them. And re: the kid thing, I know I've had most of my friends without kids fall away over the years, simply because my life is so different. The things we used to do together are no longer really easy for me to participate in. Doing stuff with a bunch of little kids for unrelated adults is kind of a pain for them. They may not disapprove of you, just the way they do life has changed. It's easier and natural to connect more with people living a similar life. Kids have a way of taking over your life. Chances are it's not personal. By taking the time to reach out to people and ask how they are doing, to connect on a personal level, that tells me you are likely to be a really good friend!

[TriedTooHard]

Analyzing friendships is an important aspect of our recovery and developing our family of choice, so I don't see it as pessimistic or narcissistic to see the problems associated with it.  I see it as realistic and self-reflecting.  One big thing to achieve is the ability to be alone, by ourselves, without feeling lonely or shame filled.  When that happens, we can stop attracting the bad friendships.   

Someone on this forum helped me find Dr. Les Carter on Youtube.  He talks a lot about the broken world we live in.  I think social media reflects this.  A lot of people describe it as a narc playground, and I agree, but I also see a lot of non-narc broken people on there trying to figure things out.  I keep my account for a couple of groups I'm in, but don't participate much anymore.  For the non-narcs, its too overwhelming to try and keep up enough to be an attentive friend on there.

A lot of people have problems in their families, but with problems like ours, we were not well socialized and it was hard to act free and easy with others our age.  While a child, it was very confusing for me to watch kids from loving supportive families go through tragedies, and still able to participate in friendships and activities.  For us, it was non stop misery that we weren't allowed to process. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxVP8cBPL0M

[eternallystuck]

oh fugitive daughter, I really relate to you on this. I could have written it myself. I have been thinking such things for years. I've had so many traumatic scarring episodes with 'friends' over the years- even still with setting boundaries and being choosier later in life- that I just gave up somewhat, frustrated and hurt.

It has been a bumpy journey, but I've started to learn my lesson- why am i so afraid of or uncomfortable with my own company? We have to become comfortable with our solitude before we can make rational decisions about who to keep indulging with- when we cannot sit and be still, be disciplined in order to keep boundaries erect, ultimately we become codependent on others- even if they're blatently bad for us. We leap to the friend that always flakes- thus reinstating our reliance on them. We leap to the immature guy who most definitely isn't loyal, because its 'company' or 'attention'. We tolerate things normal healthy people don't, because we were forced to from a young & impressionable age by parents. We cannot expect to come to adult awareness in our child/teen years in every dept. Sometimes it takes multiple mistakes to see the pattern emerge and reflect and learn from the lesson. Another additional factor, we are human and want to communicate and be around people- but we also have to learn to keep ourselves well and away from danger- sometimes that means longer periods of loneliness to heal.

I've also made a lot of errors of judgment in friends and wondered whether its just me, despite 90% the time it was me who had to cut them off. I also noticed, many of them had highly narcissistic or insidious traits, that I often tolerated out of feeling disenfranchised at home. I put up with cattiness, jealousy, sabotage, flakiness, betrayal, that they almost always never changed or took accountability for, let alone apologised. I didn't want to be the lonely kid in school as well as family life.

One thing I find interesting, is that whenever I discussed crappy friends to my M she would always be very snappy/ dismissive 'get rid of them then' or would actually use it as a weapon against me 'ugh, you're SO judgemental, maybe it isnt that friend with the 12000 red flags, maybe you just EXPECT too much of people'. Only in the worst cases did she show some endearment, but, again, it would be used against me later 'well you made friends with her what were u thinking!'. Well, I wasn't thinking straight M, I was too hurt, lonely & suicidal from being your offspring  Parents are supposed to support and guide their offspring around such occurrences, make them feel supported /confident enough that they don't become attached to manipulative people.

And then there's the fact that my family was odd and I doubt any of them realize what a struggle growing up in my family was

I strongly feel this was part of my problem even from a young age. Due to my m having me young, the diff stepdads, having different dad thing seemed to be shocking to some people and made me feel left out. On top of that, I did not feel warm and loving feelings to my M, the 1 who had stuck around so I did not relate. Predominantly, as a child, my common feelings to her were fear and confusion...as I aged this turned to anger, sadness and resentment. Added to that, in my teens, I was almost always emotionally overwhelmed, there was ALWAYS some PD episode with 1 of my foo and so I was always in a state of anger/hurt, or trying to hide my anger/hurt.. realistically I wasn't equipped to deal with it, and my friends weren't up to hearing about it. So naturally you become withdrawn, anxious and then back to making brash decisions in the friendship department.

The last few years have been a period of unwinding and settling down for me, not rushing to socialise or text the flake back. I am pickier, and more settled with my own company. Sometimes we need these periods to rebuild and recharge, so that we can attract the right kinds. Its hard to do that when were broken/down