Always insisting on a phone call.

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deletedtrust

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Always insisting on a phone call.
« on: March 22, 2019, 06:59:29 PM »
uBPDm continues to insist that we HAVE to talk on the phone instead of texting. I don't like talking on the phone to her because she is always using her tone and waify sighs to guilt me. I'm sure it's also so she can say whatever she wants without there being any record and she can say that's not what was said.

 Today she is insisting that my husband and I both get on a call with her and she has some questions. I texted asking if it was about technology since that's usually what family wants to talk to my husband about. She said no and that she's "not dying or anything" she just needs to have us both on the phone to have a talk. I texted "Just tell me what's up." and she hasn't replied. All this crap with her has made me beyond depressed and anxious since mid- Dec and my poor husband is sick of it. I have a feeling he's going to lose his temper with her if we all get on a call but I almost want him to so she'll see that she's messing up our day to day lives and knock it off a bit. The other half of me wants to text her that if she can't even tell me what she wants without us having to call her that we're not doing it.

I am finally meeting my new T on Monday but I have a feeling it's gonna be a long weekend before then. :stars:

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daughter

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Re: Always insisting on a phone call.
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2019, 08:50:07 PM »
It's a control issue, her need to dictate the terms of communications from/to her.  You can flip the script on her, to say she needs to text you the subject matter, that DH isn't getting involved.  The key is to remember: you're not obligated to obey, you don't need to abide by her rules.  I'd establish a new boundary, that communication between your mother and you doesn't include DH participating in conversation.  In a true emergency, you can always pull DH into conversation, but generally speaking "my parents/my responsibility" is a good rule.

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deletedtrust

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Re: Always insisting on a phone call.
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2019, 09:07:25 PM »
I let her know we weren't calling unless she could tell me why. She wanted to know "if we would help her in the future and how we would help her." I simply texted back that I am here for moral support but living with us and us supporting her financially are off the table.

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Iguanagos

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Re: Always insisting on a phone call.
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2019, 10:00:27 PM »
I totally agree that this is an attempt at controlling the interaction, so it is on her terms. I also agree with your instinct that she does this is so that there is no written record, because she’s learned that works best for her.  You had a sense, and you were right, that she was going to try to pressure you to “help her”.   I’m guessing she wanted to lay on a thick layer of O and maybe some G from the FOG, and that’s probably easier and more effective for her to do verbally than in writing.

I once had a client who drove me batty because she would constantly deny something we had mutually agreed upon by phone or in person. After several of these episodes, I tried to keep all agreements by email.  If she happened to catch me on the business phone, I would immediately send a quick confirming email documenting our verbal agreement. She was the only client I had to do this with.

When you were little, your mom got to dictate the terms of your interaction.  Now you are equal adults, and you get to decide what works for you.  She may not quite get that “equal” part.  With PDs, I think that just continuing to “do” your boundaries rather than explaining them will probably work best.  She doesn’t have to like it.  She also doesn’t get to dictate who will participate on the call from your end.

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WomanInterrupted

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Re: Always insisting on a phone call.
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2019, 01:40:51 AM »
I agree - YOU can dictate the terms of how you communicate, and *why* you communicate - and you handled her beautifully, BTW!  :worship:

You smelled a rat, trusted your gut, and headed her off at the pass.  NO,  you are not going to talk to her, NO, you are not providing financial support and NO, she is not living with you, now or ever.   :ninja: :thumbup:

So much for the "need" for a phone call, where she blares the FOGhorn and tries to guilt her way back in.   :roll:

So, asked and answered, right?

Nope.  Because it wasn't the answer she wanted, she's just going to keep asking, over and over again, in the hope of wearing you down - but at least it will be by text, and you won't have to listen to her.   :evil2:

There's something I'd like you to think about, and that's blocking her number, for a length of time of *your* choosing.  Could be a week, could be a month, or you could  like the silence so much, she stays blocked forever.

If you don't do something, you're going to keep getting these kinds of texts, where she proverbially tugs at the hem of your skirt, whining, "Please?  Please?  Please?  Please?  Please?  Please?" - on an endless loop!

You don't have to *do* anything but think about the pros and cons - and it might be something you'd like to discuss with your new T, whom I hope works   out *very* well for you.  :)

You've GOT this, Deletedtrust!   :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

 :hug:

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StayWithMe

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Re: Always insisting on a phone call.
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2019, 01:57:20 AM »
I think you handled it well.  She will just have to get used to the new methods of communication.

My mother couldn't be bothered using voicemail.  Either she or my sister were home to take the calls.  Then her mother moved to town and started calling areound 4pm and didn't stop until she went to bed.  My mother learned how to use voicemail so that she wouldn't miss other calls while avoiding her mother.

I find it interesting how communications technology has changed for the consumer.  At one point, I decided I would not deal with anyone who didn't have a cellphone when making plans to meetup.

I would advise don't explain your intentions to your mother.  for example, when she asks about your husband, just say he's busy, not "We decided that only I will deal with you."  It gives her too much to work with.

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deletedtrust

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Re: Always insisting on a phone call.
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2019, 02:15:51 AM »
We conversed a couple more times by text and she begged me to call her. I got into this weird headspace where I felt brave and wasn't scared of her anger so I did. At first, it was the usual waify crap and then she went on about how the inpatient place she's at isn't helping her the way she thought it would and then it came around to the text vs call thing. I let her know texting me is easier because I'm working around three kids' and mine and my husband's schedule so if she calls and I don't answer it's because I'm busy and I'll call her when I can/feel like it but I don't have to talk to her every day. That pissed her off. "You don't love me, you want me to disappear... blah blah blah."

I let her have it. I explained that that behavior right effing there was why I didn't want to talk to her on the phone, that my love wasn't proven in phone calls and favors, and that I am a damned adult who can choose not to be spoken to that way. Then I explained that another reason I don't feel comfortable is that she doesn't respect my boundaries. She complained/raged about why do I act that way for a few minutes. We went round and round about me being the only person she has which isn't true but other people are also reluctant to talk to her because it's never a friendly call it's always hitting them up for something and (again) if she doesn't have me she has nothing. That reminded me of the call where we had to have a good relationship or none and she would kill herself. I let her know that was a bullshit thing to say to me and if she chose to do that it was on her and didn't have a damned thing to do with what I do or don't do.

She kept saying "Can we try to fix our relationship?" My answer was always the same "If you stop and think before you're mean to me when you don't like what I do or say we can have a relationship." Her "So we can't have a relationship!" Not once saying to herself that maybe her acting out at me is the problem even after me telling her 10 times.  :blink:

She eventually said to tell the kids she loves them and hung up crying. Usually, I'd wring my hands all night worrying about if she was okay and if I had hurt her feelings but all I feel is straight relief. She will not acknowledge any wrongdoing on her part. I am not going through any more of this until we have a counseling session like she's been requesting. I think she wants a counselor to "set me straight" about respecting my mother but I KNOW that they will tell her to quit being rude and maybe I'd want to see her more. That's just common knowledge right, you're crappy to people and they don't want to see you.

I told my husband that I actually told her how I feel, all of it, and ended with "If I ever treated my kids the way she treats me I would want them to run as far away from me as possible!" When it came out of my mouth it hit me both that it's true and that I should take my own motherly advice. Whew.

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WomanInterrupted

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Re: Always insisting on a phone call.
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2019, 03:17:31 AM »
I think StayWithMe might be right about that (giving her too much to work with, in telling her you've both decided only you will deal with her), but I think she's already set her sights on your DH as a target, in some half-baked game of Divide and Conquer.   :wacko:

You said your DH would likely unleash on her, on the phone.  She probably senses that, too - and was trying to make it happen so she can be HIS victim - and  so are YOU! -  because he's *just so mean and ABUSIVE* - so you should move out with your DD, get a place with your mom, and you'll all live happily ever after, while you work 3 jobs, to pay all the bills, she terrorizes your DD by laying in bed all day and moaning, and your mom complains non-stop about *everything.*   :aaauuugh:

I'm not saying you'd fall for it, but it's just yet another tactic to try because she's getting desperate, and when desperation sets in, I find they tend to throw everything they can at you, to see what sticks.   >:(

UnBPD Didi had never said anything negative about my DH, but one day, out of the blue, she announced, "Your DH hates me and I know why!"   :dramaqueen:

I said, "Oh?  I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that, but I'll have to ask him."

She screamed, "You can't tell him I said that!  You CAN'T!"   :dramaqueen: :dramaqueen:

I said, "I don't keep secrets from my husband..." - and watched her go into Panic Mode as I drove, happy in the knowledge that all conversation was now OVER.   :ninja:

And yes, I DID tell him, and he thought it was absolutely nuts.  He didn't hate her, but he was quickly losing ALL respect for her, because of her unrealistic expectations and the constant demands she made on me.

So just keep that in mind - she might be targeting your DH, no matter what you do or don't say.

Your mom has ONE goal, just like unBPD Didi - move into my house, lay in bed all day, be fussed over like a bonsai tree, spend all our money on items to hoard, be her 24/7 slave, who doesn't require food or sleep, and she can talk AT me constantly, or whine non-stop about her health, and how she's going to kill herself if she doesn't get what she wants, when she wants it. 

Once they get that into their heads, you're never going to disabuse them of the idea - which is why I suggested blocking her number.   :yes:

THAT is the future she saw for herself, so THAT is how it's going to go, and in her mind, you can't stop it, because *that is the decision she's made and she is your MOTHER.  There IS no higher authority!*   :blink: :no: :thumbdown:

I proved Didi wrong, many times, by having boundaries of titanium - and  I only told her ONE boundary.  The rest I just did.  8-)

The ONE boundary I told her was, "If you ever threaten to commit suicide again, you're going to be explaining it to the people at (name of our local psych center).  Do you understand?"

And yes, I made her answer.  It was a snotty, "Yes, MOTHER!"

But...in the 2 years she lived after that, she never did it again, because she wasn't stupid and knew I wasn't freaking kidding.

Waifs just don't want to give up being Waifs.  The *can* take care of themselves, but just don't want to, and think everybody owes them something, or should do for them because they're more well-off, have the room, and Waifs don't see themselves as problems - I really think they think of  themselves as small, orphaned children somebody needs to bring in from the rain and coddle, constantly, when they're competent, grown-ass ADULTS  who *claim* not to want to be burdens, while making themselves the ultimate burden!   :blowup:

They abdicate ALL responsibility, while retaining total *control* - with an iron grip they won't relinquish, now or ever.

I have a feeling your mom is only going to keep getting worse, and will start frantically going for something - ANYTHING! - that will get her back into your house, with you all living in terror as she sponges off you, destroys your finances, and sends you ALL to T for decades to come.   :aaauuugh:

So that might be another reason to consider blocking her - if she doesn't have access to you, you won't get to hear about oh, whatever it is she's got planned this time, which might be 52,000 hospitalizations for problems she really doesn't have, knowing they'll only release her to a safe environment, and her car isn't safe - but your house IS.   :aaauuugh: :aaauuugh: :aaauuugh: :aaauuugh:

BTW - short answer for that:  stay out of it (don't visit!) and tell the hospital they'll have to figure it out with her *caseworker* - her name and number are .... - and let THEM sort it.  :ninja:

They'll probably release her to a rehab attached to a nursing home, and won't let her leave until she's got suitable housing set up - enter her caseworker again.  :yes:

Another BTW - if social workers won't stop calling you - your mom has one, any hospital will have one, rehabs have them and so do nursing homes - you can block them, too.  :thumbup:

And I would, to prove you are NOT AN OPTION and are NOT getting involved, in any way, shape or form.   :no_shake:

I know I'm getting ahead of myself, but it was something StayWithMe said, that opened my eyes and made me think, "Uh oh...I think she's trying to do a Didi!"   :blink:

Friends don't let friends deal with a Didi without some sort of blueprint to use - or modify, as needed.  8-)

Waifs are astonishingly resourceful - but they're also astonishingly *devious and cunning* - please don't ever forget that.

I haven't, which is why I wrote this post!   :heythere:

 :hug:

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WomanInterrupted

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Re: Always insisting on a phone call.
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2019, 04:14:54 AM »
I just saw your update, after I posted another reply.

You wrote:

She kept saying "Can we try to fix our relationship?" My answer was always the same "If you stop and think before you're mean to me when you don't like what I do or say we can have a relationship." Her "So we can't have a relationship!" Not once saying to herself that maybe her acting out at me is the problem even after me telling her 10 times.  :blink:

First - good for you for just ripping off the band-aid and SAYING IT!       :yahoo:

Anger isn't a "bad" emotion - it's often a catalyst for change.  :yes:

But your mother sees it as "bad" because to her, I think, a "relationship" is she lives in your house, you financially support her, she calls ALL the shots, terrorizes you and your DD, your DH is miserable, but she gets to lay around and moan all day about her problems, while having you wait on her, like a slave.

That, to her, is a "relationship."   :thumbdown: :blink:

No content - just you acting in a parental role/caregiver, while she retains all the CONTROL.

You wrote:

I told my husband that I actually told her how I feel, all of it, and ended with "If I ever treated my kids the way she treats me I would want them to run as far away from me as possible!" When it came out of my mouth it hit me both that it's true and that I should take my own motherly advice. Whew.

You have seen the light!    :sunny:

That's it, exactly!  8-)

You mentioned going to T with her - I think you already know how *that's* going to go, if you can even pin her down for an appointment.   :wacko:

She'll be the victim of yet another person who just doesn't understaaaaaaaaaannd!   :dramaqueen: :violin:

No, nobody understands, which is why it's called Borderline Psychotic Behavior.  She lives in her own universe, with her own rules - and her rules don't apply in the universe we live in.

She is *never* going to understand the universe we live in - and just wants what she wants, when she wants it, and expects it to be made real, because that's what  she wants - no matter the inconvenience, problems or pain she causes.

She just wants - and will keep on wanting  - and is a never-ending black-hole of need you  didn't  cause, you can't control, and you can't cure.

Do what's  best for YOU and yours - and never mind her foolishness.   :yes:

She can't change, and she can't learn.


 :hug:

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Juniperberry

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Re: Always insisting on a phone call.
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2019, 01:00:31 PM »
I told my husband that I actually told her how I feel, all of it, and ended with "If I ever treated my kids the way she treats me I would want them to run as far away from me as possible!" When it came out of my mouth it hit me both that it's true and that I should take my own motherly advice. Whew.

This is big.  These moments of hard-earned clarity are the best proof that you are truly coming Out of the FOG.  Good for you!   :woohoo:

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bohemian butterfly

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Re: Always insisting on a phone call.
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2019, 02:27:37 PM »
I agree with all the other members, it is definitely a control thing.

You did great!   :applause:

My mother used to do this to me.  I want to tell you, it gets better.

My mother went from completely enmeshed to distant.  I realize that I am being punished.   :)

I smile because thankfully, I've had enough therapy to know that it is NOT me (just as in this situation, it is NOT you).   

I just wanted to let you know that you are doing great, and that you are not alone! 

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Psuedonym

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Re: Always insisting on a phone call.
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2019, 06:26:39 PM »
Hi deletedtrust,

Yuck, sorry you had to endure that phone call. You have reminded me of exactly how it would go if I spoke to my M, so thanks for that public service announcement.

I was watching a comedy special on Netflix and one part of it was about the comedian trying to explain to his 6 year old daughter that their elderly dog wasn't going to be around much longer (I know that doesn't sound funny but it was!). Anyway, he talks about how you have to repeat things to 6 year olds constantly, so he kept reminding the daughter of this fact, and then when the dog finally died of course she acted like she had never heard any of it before and flipped out (I swear it was actually a funny bit). Anyway when he was explaining this I thought, omg, that's my M. And honestly that makes sense if you think about them in terms of being emotionally 6 year olds.

As to going to therapy with your M, er, not so much. Here's what happened with me. My M had been seeing a therapist for many years who was very enabling but hey it was someone else she could whine to other than my dad. After one of her Xanax hospitalizations, I took her to see said therapist, who invited me to sit in on the session. Now this is her therapist that she's seen for years that she trusts, I had never seen the woman before in my life. To my delight the therapist read her the riot act and told her that her behavior towards me and in general was completely unacceptable, she was acting like a toddler, etc. etc. I sat there eating the Ts candy that she had in a big bowl; it was great. But my point is, while I found it cathartic, my M didn't acknowledge a word of it, just completely blocked it out. And if you asked her today about it she'd deny it ever happened. So the expectation that anyone on the planet is capable of putting a dent in your mother's version of reality is probably misplaced. As WI said, she ain't gonna change.

An hour ago my BF said to me 'omg I wish your M texted or used email' and I replied, 'you know she'd just text or email "call me" a hundred times if she did.' :)

Also WI, " fussed over like a bonsai tree" was hilarious.

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bostonbound

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Re: Always insisting on a phone call.
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2019, 10:29:00 AM »
Deleted trust… I hear what you are saying loud and clear. This sounds exactly like my father. I always feel guilty that I don’t call him, instead I prefer email. I live far from him so visiting is an option, thankfully. I probably see him once a year or two times at the most. I always felt like it was my daughterly duty To call even though I don’t. I always feel guilty about that. Thanks for your posting because it makes me understand that if emailing works better for me it is OK. I hope things are going a little bit better for you at this point.

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Sojourner17

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Re: Always insisting on a phone call.
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2019, 05:50:35 PM »
Deleted Trust, your post resonated with me as well. My mom will do the same thing, try to get me to call and if that doesn’t work convince my dad to call and do the same thing, if that doesn’t work she gets my dad to leave harsh voice mails.  I blocked them two months ago due to this type of behaviour and more. 
It’s so hard when you are in the thick of it. It’s frustrating, sad, and angering. It’s like you run through so many emotions in one time. 
Stick to your boundaries and the level and type of contact you are comfortable with.
"Tomorrow is a new day with no mistakes in it..." - Anne of Green Gables by L.M. Montgomery

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athene1399

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Re: Always insisting on a phone call.
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2019, 10:30:47 AM »
Quote
She lives in her own universe, with her own rules - and her rules don't apply in the universe we live in.
My Dad used to say this all the time "it's M's world. We're just living in it." It's very similar.

M doesn't usually call me, but when I do see her I get the "I would have called you about x, but you never answer..."  I think it's supposed to make me feel bad, but I really don't care. Now she emails me a lot which I don't mind because I can respond with a quick "thanks for letting me know." That seems to keep her happy and feeling connected. And it's not a thousand times a day. I guess I really lucked out.

I tried to get M into therapy after she assaulted my dad, but neither one of them wants her going . :stars: I guess that's not a big enough red flag to either of them. Oh well.

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Sidney37

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Re: Always insisting on a phone call.
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2019, 12:57:56 PM »
Oh the demand for phone calls the when and how she wants them...  It struck me this week now that I am seeing more clearly  that I probably lost one of my first real jobs over this. 

She demanded that I call every day after she got home from work, before she started cooking dinner, not while she was watching tv and not when she was getting ready for bed.  It couldn’t be before work.  That was too early,  The only time that fit her qualifications was 5:30-6 PM.  I worked 9-6.  I had an office full of employees who needed to talk to me between 5-6.  They were furious that I was on a personal call from 5:30-6 every day.  I stayed until 7 to make up for it, but they didn’t want to.  Of course they didn’t.  They complained to my boss who worked at another location.  It was really the root cause of my employees frustration and why I ended up quitting before I got fired for it.  I truly believed consequences from her would have been worse than losing my job, 

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Hopelessly stuck

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Re: Always insisting on a phone call.
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2019, 03:39:06 PM »
 :yeahthat: The phone calls. I have gotten where I would answer the Phone calls IF I wanted to. Then She'd say You never answer Your Phone so I am not going to call you. She said it as IF I really cared. Then I'd listen to All her complaints OR things She'd blame me for causing. She would text me with text after texts. Of course, She always needed something or wanted me to do something for her.

I am seriously thinking about blocking her and My Sister...I have to start thinking about Myself.  It will be so much easier now that I finally realized that She is probably a Covert Narcisist... :aaauuugh: 
Controllers, abusers and manipulative people don’t question themselves. They don’t ask themselves if the problem is them. They always say the problem is someone else. Darlene Ouimet

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FlowerPot

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Re: Always insisting on a phone call.
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2019, 09:38:28 AM »
 :aaauuugh: the phone calls. mother died a year ago but phone calls were a big deal

1) I dreaded the phone ringing in our house as it was likely to be her... for a "nice long chat"  :doh: 
2) the non acceptance of any other way to communicate, couldn't accept that I hated the phone  :sadno: :evil2:

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Spring Butterfly

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Re: Always insisting on a phone call.
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2019, 04:53:36 PM »
She can insist all she wants but she can't *make* you. Once I realized that I was free.

My T told me that little girl inside is fearful of the repercussions, the disapproval, the attitude, the silent treatment, the withdrawal of love. I made peace with all of it and it took me a long time, little baby steps along the way oh, but I'm an adult and she can't make me do anything I don't want to do.

One member here challenged me years back, what is she going to do in reality? Take away your dinner? Send you to your room? For real in reality what can she do?

It help me to realize that and then I was able to reclaim my power as an adult over my own choices and my own self.
Each and every contact with a PD person results in damage. Plan accordingly and make time to heal. See Toolbox for tips. Individuation is the key to emotional freedom.