Not PD but C-PTSD "flight" friends

[Hazy111]

Coming Out of the FOG for me has enabled to me to start reappraising some of my non PD but "flight" friends behavior.

I read Pete Walkers brilliant book about C-PTSD and how there are various adaptions that began in childhood to do with trauma. There is PD or "fight" response as he calls it but there are also others and the "flight" responders , the human "doings" as he calls them  i have a few as friends.

But recently i have come to question how good these friendships are as I am called upon to "do" or be with them as they "do".  I used to admire them as they seemed to have so much energy and not plagued with self doubt or depression. But this i understand now is a facade.

Its hard to explain and it doesnt happen all the time. The poor behavior that i forgave and have been loyal to them for a long time, has now begun to grate.. The last minute cancellations, they, conveniently forgetting to tell you others will be there, or what we planned is not quite what was planned and we are doing something else. Or when we do something the insatiable need to do something else as well. Everything has to be done at a certain speed. When ive asked for a favor and they have piled in and helped but then they have to disappear to do something else that crops up. The lack of real meaningful conversation, i know i can monologue,  but i do enjoy conversation and they generally dont or only in  short amounts and about the most superficial things.

An example, is a friend wants to play golf. I agree to play with him , i like to play and afterwards i like to sit and grab a drink or something to eat and chew the fat for a bit. But he always has to shoot off, to do something else he has planned that day. I think if  i said " do want to play another round" , he would say yes.

Its though they have a daily schedule and you are slotted in or slotted out as per.  Then they will help you with something as they like doing, but then something else pops up and they have to do that or they want to take over and start doing it their way, so to draw it out as it suits them to. They go home and come back the next day with a new "plan".

Im sorry if this sounds strange, but i feel if im not "doing" with them then the friendship is really shallow. They arent all the same and some are better than others but i now see the same common thread with of them. There is also a strong whiff of self righteousness and victim hood/martyr (MY MOTHER).. Sometimes when they are telling me they have to do this or that. I now think, they dont have to , but choose to, but they act like theyve got no choice. Their company expects it,  their wives make them or the children need it or and the excuses go on and on. Always running around with never any time.

What am i gaining from this?

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Hazy111,

Thanks for posting about this. My thoughts as I read your post is that you've probably outgrown some of these friendships.

Some people keep their life busy like you describe, and you have hit on the problem that comes from that. They don't want to connect with the people they do things with. But they definitely want to do activities. Like you said, your one friend liles to play golf but doesn't want to do the same thing as you after playing golf.

If I wanted to play golf I can keep a friend who also is just my golf friend. A lot of people do that and it works fine. They don't talk about anything other than golf. Some people enjoy that kind of friendship, but its up to you if you want that, with this person.

We can't force people to connect with us. I feel like this is a part of coming Out of the FOG too. You start to see the ways your needs are not being met and you deepen your commitment to yourself. As we grow, our desire for respect grows and we are able to identify what we want and need, which is a way our boundaries are becoming stronger, sort of on their own. The lack of respect for you when they change or cancel plans, without being sincere towards you, is something you are now tired of.

If you take a break from some of it for a few weeks you may be able to identify which friends you miss and which ones you want to keep working with and which ones you may have outgrown. Sometimes we can update our expectations of people but also,  sometimes we have seen red flags that tell us we have had enough of them.

[Hazy111]

Thanks treesgrow.

It was also a kind of epiphany as well. Most people are traumatised and this is how theirs manifests itself.

Its this thing called "friends"  i suppose. Are we friends or are we just using each other as unconscious  therapy. I have a "friend" who i go walking with, but recently i have developed a health condition that restricts this . I still visit him and we go on short restricted walks and chat go for coffee etc , but he brings up this "health condition " and the lack of walking a couple of times now, why cant it be resolved? I think its grating with him.  I know he enjoys my company if we can walk, he doesnt want to just meet up and talk.

[Wilderhearts]

One thing my trauma therapist talks about regularly is attachment styles, and what you've described seems to be classic behaviour of people with avoidant attachment styles: they avoid dealing with painful feelings and experiences by constantly distracting themselves, possibly numbing.  To me, flakiness or inconsistency, constantly being on the move and piling on the activities/work are all avoidant behaviours.  They can of course be a flight response as well, but this makes me wonder if flight responses manifest slightly differently in people with avoidant versus anxious or secure attachment styles.  It would also explain why there seems to be a shallowness to these friendships, why the friendship is more a "doing" than relating or being together (or "chewing the fat" as you said).

I dated a man who was very much like this.  He made such a consistent activity partner because he wanted to do everything all the time, one thing after the other (which I didn't enjoy, but he was up for what I wanted to do).  But it wasn't about presence or connection (and there was zero emotional intimacy), I think, because he was just using activities (and me) to avoid painful emotions.  And yes, he would probably have C-PTSD also.

After I left him, I realized I had been afraid of losing my activity partner and that I wouldn't have people to do things with.  The opposite became true - I had to find new people, and their company during activities was much more enjoyable.  I don't automatically have someone to do everything with, and that certainty was nice, but this is better.

[notrightinthehead]

I have recently been forced to start from scratch, build friendships in a completely new place. I have found that every relationship is different. There are people I enjoy doing certain things with and not others. Common activities are easy, having coffee and chats are more difficult. I am a good listener and have often been exploited for that. Now that I have the opportunity to build a new social network, I focus on what is beneficial and enjoyable for both. Maybe that friend of yours enjoys playing golf with you, but not so much sitting down and chatting. Maybe you can find a friend who prefers chatting with you and does not play golf.