Sad

[Twinkletoes88]

Hi all,

I saw mr NPDm today for the first time in 4 months. I've posted a bit over those 4 months so won't repeat all the background here. Anyway, we met for breakfast. I felt a little awkward and nervous for a while and noticed I struggle to maintain eye contact with her for long. It struck me how I feel I barely know her anymore - since we have grown more and more distant over the last few years.

We chatted about various things but nothing heavy and we didn't speak about one another's husbands - neither did she ask about my stepchildren as is normal.

When it came to us leaving, she suddenly burst into tears and really, really sobbed. I was so shocked and wasn't at all prepared as she's not done this before when we've met up. She cried and said how much she misses me and how she wishes she could see me more and for longer than "just breakfast". I said "well you never text me" which came out before I had thought it through, she said "I do! All the time". I then said "mum you always just want to go out drinking and I don't want to do that" to which she said "I don't" and cried more.

We hugged a bit and I made sure she was okay to drive and told her we could go shopping or something soon and she agreed and nodded and wiped her tears and then she drove off and I went to my own car. After she drove off, I also burst into tears and sat in the car for a while to compose myself.

I've felt sad all day since that happened. Seeing my mother so sad and vulnerable has got to me. I know many people would say that it's manipulation or crocodile tears, and maybe it is, but it felt genuine. I think she really does miss me but it's hard because obviously I separated/distanced myself for a reason.

It's hard. I guess in some ways we both want the same thing: to see each other more and be closer, but our ideas of how that plays out in real life are quite different. So much has changed and so much damage has been done.

Us both not liking or being willing to see the other's husband really doesn't help matters but in my case there's absolutely no chance my husband will ever, ever, see her again. He's very clear on that point.

I'm not sure I have a question really... I just needed to vent a little I suppose.

Maybe I'm being Really naive but maybe she has mellowed and softened a little with some age and a lot of distance? I wish things could be a bit better than they are but I just don't know how.

:-(

[moglow]

Twink, I'm sorry you -y'all- are sad and struggling here. At the root of it, you *have* changed. You made a painful decision to step back and away from a relationship that was in and of itself, painful.

That hasn't changed ... And unfortunately, odds are neither has your mother. I have no doubt she's sad and misses you, as you do her. Id go as far to say it wasnt manipulation at all - that's likely how she felt in that moment, same as you. Does that mean it's a long term lasting change? Nope.

But think! Did she apologize for the mess your relationship became? Did she own up to her part in in? Did she ask you to talk it out?

Here's my (very cynical) take if it were mine - the next step would be a barrage of happy perky random messages. Making plans to get together. Forcing some kind of connection. Still no mention of what got us where we are, no recognition that I'm eying this whole scenario askance and still not telling her anything about my life.

Why? Because I don't trust her as far as I can throw her. The first time I said something she didn't like, stood up for myself or (to use your example) suggest something not involving drinks, the poop would hit the oscillating object. And if be standing there mumbling to myself "this, this right here is why I backed off ..."

Think of this as a grieving process, if you will - in all reality it is. We're grieving the relationships we hoped and prayed for, we're grieving the children inside us who were pushed aside, minimized, abused and abandoned. We're grieving the very real losses we've had along the way, plus the things we chose to ignore for so long.


If we go through the Kubler-Ross stages of grief, acceptance is at the end. Getting there is painful. It's not necessarily a straight or easy, not is it quick or painless. But ultimately acceptance is the goal, accepting that she is who she is, that the only person you'll ever change is yourself.

You're worth it. I promise you, you are worth it.

[Twinkletoes88]

Thank you for your really kind and thoughtful response. I agree with what you say. It's so hard, still! Ive been in therapy for 5(!!!) years this November. 5! And yet I still find myself feeling these things, you would think I would be better equipped by now wouldn't you? I must seem really naive - I feel like if I read my post I would think it was manipulation and playing the victim etc but even despite being able to see that, I still feel really, really sad.

I've been grieving for her/us all these years and yet seeing her cry so hard today made me feel like she's not this monster I have made her out to be... I find myself tonight wondering if I can try to forgive her and move on somehow - I keep thinking that it's not healthy to punish someone forever and that won't help me....

But I also know I'm not doing anything to punish her, it's more to protect myself.

I feel so upset tonight. I keep crying and wishing I could have reacted differently to her today. I keep wishing this could be the start of a healthier, happier relationship for us but you are right, she didn't and hasn't apologised for anything and I genuinely believe she doesn't take any responsibility for anything which really doesn't help.

X

[Adria]

Twinkletoes,

I am so sorry. Reading your post brought tears to my eyes.  I can just imagine the emotional torture going on in your mind right now. I would feel exactly as you described because even after almost three decades of being estranged from my family, if my narc dad called to meet me like that, I would want to hope that he was sincere and I would want everything to be all right despite knowing deep down I can never trust him. I am not sure if that feeling ever goes away. 

It is the saddest thing imaginable that pretty much all of us here on the board live hoping, dreaming and feeling the same way. It seems surreal and so unfair. I don't know what to say.  I'm sure your mom misses you just like you miss her and she meant it from the bottom of her heart.  Maybe a shopping day wouldn't hurt if it was kept short and simple.  Maybe if it gets too weird, you can say you have to leave. I don't know, but I feel your heart may want to give it a try.  It doesn't mean you have to jump back in head first, and it doesn't mean you have to start in all hot and heavy.  But you sound so sad and like maybe you would like to try.  If it goes south, so what. Then you will just remember why it is the way it is and proceed as needed.  Whatever you decide to do, how ever you decide to play this doesn't mean that's the way it has to stay. You can change the rules as needed to keep yourself safe. I wish you all the best. Hugs - Adria

[TriedTooHard]

This is truly a very sad/tragic period you're going through with your mother.  Do you ever wonder in what condition you'd be, or your relationship with her would be, without your therapy?  She may not be a monster, or may not have been manipulative during that encounter, but without all of your progress, she'd probably still be manipulating you and she would be behaving like a monster.  I agree, you've not punished - instead, you protected yourself. 

Its great to know that your boundaries can work with her.  It sounds like she's at the level of uPD where she senses the boundaries.  That may be the only progress she is able to make.  And there may be times where your life and issues prevent you from having to put up boundaries of steel just to be able to deal with her.  Its ok to wait for those periods to pass until you can have contact with her.