Need a gut check here

[H_Allison]

Hello everyone!

I was hoping I could get a little feedback from some trusted confidants about my plans for an impending visit. I just need a little bit of perspective to give me some confidence to hold my ground.

MIL has ramped up her small talk texting which gives a little more teeth to her threat to visit us in a few weeks. I am really trying to only spend time ruminating on things that I know are in my future with her rather than obsessing over anticipating her next move. I hadn't given much thought to the whole 'We should get together'  song and dance, but combined with the marked uptick in random text messages, I am thinking I actually have to start making tangible preparations for seeing her.

I talked with DH and reminded him that I was still not comfortable with her coming to our house (for a whole host of ridiculous reasons) and he said he understood. Here's the kicker though- the weekend that she wants to visit is truly one of only two weekends throughout the entire summer that I will be out of town. Seriously?! This woman has seen us two times in the last year and she happens to pick the ONE weekend that I am busy. Don't worry- the plot thickens. While I am busy that weekend, DH is not and will be hanging with DD for some daddy-daughter time. I'm not fooling myself in thinking that MIL wants to visit me- she is coming for that one Instagram picture she can use on social media to propagate her manufactured self-image of devoted grandmother. I told DH that in keeping with our mutually agreed upon parenting approach, when one parent (me in this case) says no, the answer is no. I am saying that DD may not spend time with MIL without me there. I told DH that I was proud of the recent strides he has made in his journey Out of the FOG, but that I have a hard time with letting my children be around people I do not trust without the necessary safety mechanisms to protect them. I tried to explain to him that as it was still difficult for him to confront his mother and, often times, even detect when she was manipulating him or the situation, he wasn't able to provide the safety net for DD that I would need to say yes. It sounds very harsh when I write it out, but the conversation was positive and also supportive. End message was that no one was going to be set up to succeed (including MIL) if DH took DD to visit MIL without me. DH and I even rehearsed responses he could give to MIL when she asks why DH could visit without DD.

This is reasonable, right? I am not being just like her, am I?

[Call Me Cordelia]

I have the same boundary, but harsher. No contact for me means no contact for kids. If I cannot trust my in-laws enough to be in contact with them, I'm certainly not going to trust them around my children. No matter who is with them. I said very similar things to my own DH about this boundary.

If you trust only yourself to protect the children around his parents, then you only trust yourself. It's a thoughtfully made boundary. DH and MIL won't like it, but that's not your problem.

[treesgrowslowly]

I have the same boundary, but harsher. No contact for me means no contact for kids. If I cannot trust my in-laws enough to be in contact with them, I'm certainly not going to trust them around my children. No matter who is with them. I said very similar things to my own DH about this boundary.

If you trust only yourself to protect the children around his parents, then you only trust yourself. It's a thoughtfully made boundary. DH and MIL won't like it, but that's not your problem.

Yep.

Your gut feeling is strong. You're not alone in this. Protecting the kids brings up that gut feeling really strong for me as well.

I also think we all have those moments of wondering "Am I just like them?". I think that's why the gut check is so wise. In our gut we know we are not just like them.

[Nomoreblind]

Hi, your main duty as a parent of a young child is to provide a safe environment for your little one.  If she was 20 and she was living at your place and you were making that sort of decision, then there is may be a control element.  But when you know they are children and grandma could just say "hey I will take you to Disney" without discussing with you the parent, hence creating disruptions between you and your kid or is just using your kid to show off or just making subtle comments to make the child feel responsible for lack of visits, you stay there Big Time! 

At this point I do not trust my H to be with his UNM and I suspect uBPD or UNSIL and my DD alone.  They both guilt trip him or scare him but he will never admit to it clearly.  In desperation he would sometime say " I have a screwed up FOO." However I do not want my daughter brought into that and until she grows up I will probably be the gate keeper for a while. 

Manipulation or guilt trip is an art mastered by narcisstic Mil for almost 80 years and Sil 50 years and my DD3 is not going to take that load on her little shoulders. Not her duty to carry the weight of their misery.  DH already had and that's where we as spouses of our Hs put our foot down and accept to take the Bad Guy role so as to protect our children, call it instinct or gut feeling, it is rarely wrong.  You are doing what is right for your family. I would rather have been the mum being happy Mil and Sil are around due to free baby sitting or having adult women chats, but my grieving is over regarding such a relationship, they've never changed a nappy for my DD.  They bring loads of gifts which are with strings attached if you are not mentally strong.

[Cat of the Canals]

I think it's perfectly reasonable. And smart to be wary of the fact that your husband is less able to detect the manipulation. I have that problem myself sometimes, and not only with my own parents.

[biggerfish]

Hi H_Alisson! We are all cheering you on.

I'm with everyone's advice here. And in response to your statement, "DH and I even rehearsed responses he could give to MIL when she asks why DH could visit without DD," I'm going to remind you, because reminding is a good thing LOL, that there is no law that says you have to explain yourself. In fact, explaining yourself can easily backfire, leading to the PD person combatting your explanation with a suggested remedy. Then it becomes a battle, in which you lose your power. Explaining oneself is a slippery slope.

So make your response "content-free." In other words, give an explanation that says nothing. Maybe a response like "...because it doesn't work for us."

(Here's a fun anecdote which is true: A few years ago I had to call a company to ask them to turn off my auto-renew. The rep on the phone asked the inevitable question, "...and why do you want to turn off auto-renew?" To which I answered, "...because it's on." LOL. That's an example of a content-free answer!)

[oddsunflower]

Before my DH came Out of the FOG, my NC also included the kids. In the instance of holidays, I would go and politely interact on surface levels only so they could see the kids. That ended this year after Christmas went crazy and I said no more. My DH continued to interact with them (they were his employer) for another two months before he cut them off as well.
I think doing what feels best for you and your children is the right thing to do. Our SO's are adults and can figure out these things on their own. We are supposed to protect our children from people like my in-laws. I would ask myself, if this was just occurring in a random place with random people, would I stay and allow my children to be subjected to this? It was like a self-check for me...
Best of luck to you! This journey is so difficult.

[H_Allison]

Thank you all for your sound advice and encouragement.

Visit came and went (only lasted about 2hrs). Relatively uneventful- MIL behaved herself but couldn't resist a few last minute changes to the plan just to make herself feel like she was calling the shots.  I was really impressed with myself on how well I was able to grey rock- all thanks to the excellent advice from everyone here!

After the visit- MIL put some sappy post about how she 'came all the way to (FOC's town) to visit' and '(DD) was like this and doing that...' blah, blah, blah post on social media. She also used two lame photos taken in the restaurant parking lot. Here's the thing: none of her post is true. She made us drive 45min to meet her halfway- not in our town like she claims. And the stuff about DD? None of it is true. It's not anything that is necessarily false, but it's not true. Example: she claimed that DD just started standing on her own... uuummmmm that was like 3 months ago, she's very close to taking steps now.

I asked DH if he saw her post and he said he did (He had to correct her for spelling my name wrong 'by accident'). He also said that before they left, she had asked if it was alright if she posted a picture that she took. DH told her she could. For this particular visit- I am not going to cause a big stink about the post- the incongruities are pretty innocuous. But reading your advice about my boundary and protecting DD from the manipulation has me thinking about how I need to protect DD from MIL virtual presence as well as physical. If DD were older and saw this post, would it make her question who was telling the truth? Or perhaps a better example would be to use Nomoreblind's example- what if she were to post about wanting to take DD to Disney? What if the misrepresentation of DD on social media were to embarrass her or paint her in an unflattering light? Should DH have to see the specific picture MIL wants to post to approve it rather than blanket coverage for any photos taken that day?

Not to make this even more of a rambling stream of consciousness, but this does make me question how much information I should be sharing about DD myself. My FOO is very respectful about DD on social media- they don't post anything themselves, but rather will share posts that DH or I make ourselves. It feels like there is an unspoken understanding that as DD's parents, we get to control the messaging about her. Am I expecting too much of MIL? I feel like I need to do some more soul searching on this topic. Anyone have any thoughts, advice, or resources on this?

[candy]

I think responsible adults wouldn't do or post anything on social media without the child's respectively the parents' consent.

That said I would also like to cut your MIL some slack as social media is a challenge that wasn't part of the challenges of raising kids when our parents and ILs raised kids themselves. She may not know better. And she may not be aware of the risks and cons concerning social media and kids.

To me the part in which your MIL is painting a picture (of herself and her grandchild as an enhancement) that does not show actual events but consists of lies is a red flag.

If it was me that would make me feel uncomfortable. I think ,,using" truth and untruth like they were filters designed for social media may possibly confuse kids, especially when they are very young and don't even have a concept of what truth and its opposite is.

The links are articles about studies on narcissism and posting on social media:

https://www.psychalive.org/is-social-media-to-blame-for-the-rise-in-narcissism/

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323830.php

I found them helpful and  disturbing at the same time.

DH and I, we don't post anything about our toddler on facebook. Up until now we haven't been able to agree on how much and in which ways we want pictures of our child to appear. So we refrain from sharing until we agree...

I really don't think that simply not posting anything is the right way. It seems to be right for us, but to be honest we are restricting ourselves on social media bc my ILs are not safe for our child. The ILs have some very strange and disturbing habits that evolve around photos of their grandchildren. DH and I have different LOC with them and we don't want pictures that we post used for another purpose by MIL and FIL. I am NC and I don't want them to have any information on me or my child. I have also adjusted my privacy settings on facebook, instagram and tumblr.

I understand every parent who is proud to share pics and stories of their kids. I sometimes wish I could go back to be just a little more innocent, share pictures of my smart and beautiful and funny child on the internet. Some families live widespread around the world and social media is an easy way to see the kids grow up. There really is no easy way for all.

Although it is for older children I think this link gives a good advice for social media in general:

https://raisingchildren.net.au/teens/entertainment-technology/digital-life/social-media

And here is another one. It gives reasons why not to post that are far away from any toxic family members. My DH forwarded this one whenever he was interrogated why he wasn't sharing.

https://jelliesapp.com/blog/5-reasons-not-to-post-about-your-child-on-social-media