No contact making it worse?

[survivorcat]

My husband and I are dealing with a smear campaign lead by an SIL. It's a horrifying experience to live though as many folks here know. Family events were unbearable to imagine attending, the effect my SIL is after. I have been no contact for two years, while my husband and adult kids have been in minimal contact. Just recently a nephew and his wife set up a meeting between us and a BIL and our families, although we had no idea. It was a sweet effort by well-meaning kids and the afternoon went really well and a SIL extended an invite to a family reunion. I was considering going. Unfortunately the aftermath was rather horrible. We received a call days later from BIL saying I was not welcome to the reunion and my husband and his brother had an hour of arguing on the phone  . We and the kids in the family are looking for openings where some understanding could happen, or healing. It just doesn't work out. It will take us a couple of weeks to calm down. No contact has intensified the hostilities it seems although what I was trying to do is just give them and me a break. Having not seen them in a couple of years, I am like a shadow of a person that makes it easier for them to hate? Although hellish three or so times a year, would I have kept the hostilities lower by going very low NC instead of NC? Every case is different, but appreciate knowing what other people's experience is after NC.

[NotFooled]

I'm currently VLC with inlaws.  DH has regular contact with OCPDMIL and limited contact with PDBIL.  I've had major health issues this past year.  So I think that maybe the reason I haven't seen too much push back or judgement from any of DH's family.
But when DH's aunt comes to visit it can be a bit uncomfortable when she is expecting to see PDBIL or OCPDMIL at my house.  Last year I just had to be honest when she asked about PDBIL, not coming for dinner. I just said, "we're not that close"  and it pretty much ended the conversation. 
I think she felt bad for PDBIL but as far as I'm concerned she has every right to feel that way.  I don't try to push my negative views about others onto other family members in an attempt to get them to take sides.  If other family members express negative views about me, then I just would not make an effort to host them at my home or travel to visit them. 

I have my own parents/family and my inlaws from my late husband's and DD family that we enjoy spending time with.

[survivorcat]

I think that is how no contact happened—I don't want to be near people who hate and for reasons that are untrue, so no events for me, hosting or going. The last time I went to an event, my husband's parents and siblings won't speak to me. I suppose I could ignore them and focus on family members who are ok with me, which is actually hard to completely discern. I did stick with people who are not mad at me, but I got a negative review for 'not making the rounds with everyone'. I know what you mean about sides. I am aware that I cannot stoop to their level and try and push people toward my side by defending myself. My no contact seems to be taken as an aggressive move. I suppose it is. It makes it difficult for my husband a bit, but he doesn't mind that much. NC feels great. Any door opening is scary and the inevitable knife in the back surprises me every time. Which is rather dumb. I see the advantage of gray-rocking if NC seems impossible.

[Starboard Song]

My wife and I are almost at 4 years NC. It was the right thing for us.

But I honestly believe that NC is categorically different from every other level of contact. Every other level of low and very low and very-very low contact is found "in the wild." It happens naturally between friends, colleagues, neighbors and even close family: people rarely get angry over the natural give and take, because they don't feel directly rejected.

If we tell any healthy, kind loved one that "I do not want any contact with you," it is a rare specimen of a friend who is understanding of that, and can accept that we just needed a little break. People with personality disorders, I figure, are way less equipped to process such a message. Again, don't get me wrong. I am myself NC with in-laws -- and I mean realio, trulio NC -- but declaring No Contact is fighting words, and definitely raises the bar of hostilities so long as this person is bound to be in your life.

I think I read a lot of stories here where people manage contact down to very low levels, and then enforce high boundaries for occassions where they must meet, and report overall success: they are happier, safer, and better able to thrive. And I read stories of declaring NC and achieving the same type of success. But that always seems to be in spite of -- naturally -- a great increase in anger and hostility on the part of the PD person.

Going formally NC with my in-laws ignited them: all communications with all extended family since then (every wedding, birth, or funeral) has been tense and fraught. This was the trade-off we made, and we think it was right for our terrible situation. But, while I will die on the barricade defending the honor of those of us who must choose NC, I do consider it a last resort and intended to be permanent. A manageable VVVVLC, when it is manageable, seems lower-intensity and more likely to heal or help all the hearts involved.

[all4peace]

I agree with everything SS says. We're attempting VLC on both sides for those very reasons.

[bloomie]

survivorcat - What a painful experience this recent blow back has to be. It has to be very difficult to have gone to a meet up, being open to consider attending a larger family gathering and for this to all blow up in your faces. I am really sorry this happened.

I can only speak for my own experiences with levels of contact. I have a uPD high conflict sil who I am NC with. I can unequivocally say that the single thing that amped the hostilities to the current state of NC is boundaries. Simple boundary setting and holding standards for what does and does not work for myself and my FOC in close family relationships.

I have been at this a very long time - decades. I can see very clearly the expectation from the very start of the relationship with the in laws, but particularly with one sil who is the ring leader who has held a death grip of  power and control over the entire system, that I would stay forever in the role they had cast for a dil/sil. Completely and utterly powerless and deferential.

Growing up and developing healthy boundaries and living them out - which includes changing the LOC I have with people who refuse to manage their harmful behaviors differently, is what initiated the full blown character assignations and years of hostilities offered in a myriad of very painful ways.

In my own case, to a sil who is hyper vigilant and histrionic and seething with resentment that we have escaped her dominance and control, that she has "lost her dear brother (DH) to me" even polite medium chill was an affront and used as proof to other family members that I have broken "the family".

The inexplicable knee jerk response of hate and animus to me changing my LOC is actually a ginormous power struggle and waging war on my audacity to have boundaries and set limits for my life and resources.

It may have been experienced as rejection when I tried to stay in contact using medium chill tactics, but if a soul is indeed that sensitive and the relationship is that important to them, then logically they would work toward being their best self when around me, behaving respectfully, not damaging and dividing, smearing and attempting to destroy. 

I believe it is our boundary setting that initiates the hostilities. Boundaries are a litmus test to the health of relationships and individuals in my experience. Changing my level of contact with this particular sil who persisted to offend time and time again with full knowledge of her offensive behaviors - going from MC to LC to VLC to NC has, over time, been the ONLY thing that has brought relief and peace. I have had to accept that boundary setting has also brought angst to others and hatred toward me.

Time and distance and consistent verbal and non verbal messages around how I allow myself to be treated in relationships has brought relief. There is a hero member here who has in her tag line something like this: every contact with a PD person will bring harm to us.

I have stayed in vLC with other in law family members and I have weighed the risks and benefits of that LOC when it takes days to recover from the damage that even just a few gatherings a year brings. I would suggest that in having strong boundaries and limiting or going NC with people that are not safe in a family system, I am no longer the only one feeling all of the discomfort and pain the toxic ways that this system inflicts on everyone - even if unacknowledged and vehemently denied.

I walked around for years shoulders hunched to my ears, tight chest, in so much pain from the actual rejection and toxic behaviors I was subjected to. I was feeling all of the feelings for everyone and carrying all of the crap of this family. I was the burden carrier. So much had been heaped upon my shoulders and I was in the FOG and was told, and then expected, I was to carry it and make things right for everyone.

By stepping out and away from those toxic behaviors and detaching emotionally, giving back the responsibility for the mess this family is and what they have built together and allow, all of the feelings are now diffused out and yes, others are feeling some of those feelings as well. And they don't like it. Not one little bit. 

[survivorcat]

But I honestly believe that NC is categorically different from every other level of contact. Every other level of low and very low and very-very low contact is found "in the wild." It happens naturally between friends, colleagues, neighbors and even close family: people rarely get angry over the natural give and take, because they don't feel directly rejected.

Starboard—I think you are so right. I spent many years at increasingly lower ends of contact, simmering with resentment several times a year for the sake of the kids, yet still connecting to a few in the more extended in-law group. It was manageable in comparison to the vitriol following their almost moral outrage that I would dare complain about the smearing or defend myself. It is criticism, which is for them is a degree of rejection, so down the hammer goes ever harder on me and also my husband by association. The failure of boundary setting meant the consequence ('we can't spend time together until we come to some agreements') evolved into NC, which is more rejection. It could be the long game, waiting for the less disordered to come around, will pull me back into VVLC, which is where my husband is.

[survivorcat]

Bloomie, thank you. Your descriptions of this experience is so very accurate and parallel (sorry). The longest period of NC I have had, about 5 months, without any leaks—hearing what In-laws say (yeah, my husband has to work on that.) was really helpful. I could feel myself normalizing, ruminating less and sleeping better, feeling more social again. I was approaching acceptance I had thought of all the loss, but this one event put me back in that raw place of panic and wanting to figure out a way, a new angle, to come to fixing it, fix them. They have beliefs about my motivations that are not based on fact. But debunk one lie, and another comes along. I know this. I don't know how to get to the space where it just washes over you, and it's not a surprise. Either I will get to that place or I'll get better at preventing the ambush—solid NC. I am not practiced at boundary setting (obviously having lasted 20 years at dodging), but at this point they don't speak to me, so there is no opportunity to use them. Sending messages through the husband I won't do.

My husband is low contact for the sake of his mother and the need to connect with nieces in nephews. I respect his choice. He manages it better than I do and accepts and works around the role of scapegoat. Contact used to be monthly, now down to twice a year.