How to know if you can trust your own feelings?

[notrightinthehead]

I often read 'trust your feelings' and it makes me wonder.

I have recently trusted my feelings and told a family member that I am reluctant to visit her because I feel that I am not welcome at her house. Concluding from the way she behaves towards me. She said that she had no intention to make me feel like that and was sorry that I felt that way.

Now my question is: How do I decide whom to trust? My feelings or her words?
Maybe my feeling of Not-being-welcome stems from my insecurities and I project these into the other person? Maybe my Co-dependency makes me assume that nobody likes me, not even this person? Maybe I subconsciously reject this person myself and project my dislike into her and feel unwelcome?

Is this stinking thinking?

Possibly the behaviour of the other person is a result of their own insecurities, problems, or doubts and has nothing to do with me. So that they behave withholding because they are involved with their own problems, nothing to do with me.

But what, if my feelings are right and they are lying?

Has anybody found a  successful way on how to decide who to trust? Their own feelings or what others say?

[11JB68]

I've been having a very hard time with trust lately. I'm a social person by nature, but I'm having such a hard time even feeling comfortable being friendly with people at work. I feel like everyone is playing a game or has an agenda

[notrightinthehead]

I can relate to that. It is possible to become so unsure and question everything, it almost feels like developing a paranoia (or how I imagine paranoia feels).

[11JB68]

 
Yes. For me though, most of the time, it feels like self protection

[Call Me Cordelia]

It's tough. On the one hand, feelings are not facts. On the other, we have feelings for a reason.

I can't answer about your relative. It could go either way. But if you have mentioned specific behaviors towards you, I guess I would watch and see if anything changes. Her response is total MC, not taking responsibility.

I will say that you have no obligation to go against your feelings and visit her despite your discomfort. Maybe honor your feelings first, while still working them out? We survivors have had enough of squashing down our feelings.

[athene1399]

This is a great question! I struggle with this. I never know if I can trust myself or if I am just being "crazy". I know I can trust "gut" feelings (like "it's snowing bad, I should drive careful"), but regular feelings I don't know about. I am also paranoid and trust absolutely no one (not even myself). But if there's someone I want to trust, I will test them by trusting them and seeing what happens. In your situation, if this was someone I deemed as someone I would want to trust, I would believe what they said while expecting them to be lying (I know that contradictory lol). If I find out they aren't lying, then that's really cool. I'd be more wiling to trust them next time. If I find out they were lying, then I wouldn't trust them next time and I wouldn't get hurt because I didn't trust them to begin with.

If this is someone you do want to see, trust what they say but be weary at the same time. I you start feeling comfortable there and those feelings go away, you'll know they were saying the truth. If the feelings don't go away, then regardless of why you have those feelings (if it's caused by them or you) then don't continue to see them. Maybe something about the situation just makes you uneasy and you aren't ready to process it (or they really are unwelcoming). Or you can only go there when needed (like for holidays or whatever). If the discomfort is really bad, then just don't go. You don't have to see them and the world won't end if you stay away from them. But if it's important to you to try, then try. I guess what I'm really saying is try for you and not them. Don't see them because you feel guilt for not seeing them, go because you want to trust them.

Not sure if that's the best way to go about it, but it's my dysfunctional way of doing it and it works for me. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt and it doesn't always work out, but when it does it feels good. It's hard because if we want to be in a relationship (any type of relationship), we have to be vulnerable and with that bring all the insecurities from our past relationships. You can't be in a relationship without being vulnerable, otherwise it's just a one-sided relationship.

Also, I'm proud of you for being able to tell this person you felt like you were unwelcome. That must have taken a lot of courage.

[Hazy111]

If you were raised by PD parents then it really is a life long struggle to accept and trust your own feelings. Once you begin to do this , you can begin to spot PD people everywhere. They make you feel uncomfortable

I read once and it stayed with me.

"In normal well adjusted good enough families, the parents are responsible for the emotional health of their children, in narcissistic families the children are responsible for the emotional health of the parent"

What chance did we have to trust ourselves when we are constantly monitoring the moods of others.

Trust yourself, the bodys reaction isnt a lie ,its a fact.

[treesgrowslowly]

I think you're asking a really important question. Because this is how our past, comes and affects our present.

If we felt ignored un the past and we didn't know why, then being ignored by someone today can remind us of our past experiences of being ignored.

You say you don't feel welcome at this family members house, and then you mention that maybe their withholding behaviour is because of their issues and has nothing to do with you.

That's a really good insight. A lot of times, peoples behaviour isn't about us it's about what is going on for them.

What is important is how you feel when someone is being withholding. And withholding is on a continuum. Do you feel that they are withholding in a way that you don't? So you are talking to them about different things and they don't share anything about themselves? That can be really confusing and it can be hard to accept that they don't want to share x or z with us.  That can hurt.

Think about a place where you do feel welcome. What's going on there that makes you feel welcome? For me feeling welcome in someone's house: I feel it when they are paying attention to our conversation. I feel welcome when they choose a comfortable room for us to be in. I feel welcome when they show me a new photo they just got framed that they like. Feeling welcome in someone's house is definitely a sensation we can recognize and we know it when we feel it.

If you have read about codependency and any of it fit for you, you might want to explore that because codependency involves accommodating the other person too much. So if I meet someone who is withholding, I compensate by talking more, asking more questions, and so on. The problem is that if someone is withholding, we feel that. We can see that they are withholding and we feel ignored or rejected by them. They are withholding from us and we wish they were not.

Codependency involves feeling bad for feeling rejected and then questioning ourselves. Asking ourselves to change to fix the problem. If someone in our life is busy, distracted, withholding, insensitive, or other such behaviours, its ok that we feel annoyed, frustrated, hurt by this.

Being codependent happens as a survival mechanism and a part of recovering from it is to ask the very questions you are asking so that is why i bring it up here. 

For me, understanding Codependency involved asking the questions. Why we feel not accepted by people. Learning to trust our own feelings and to see when people are emotionally unavailable to us. Maybe ot is temporary that they are emotionally unavailable or maybe it is how they are with us every time.

I spent years wondering what I could do to get a certain family member to be more forthcoming with me before realizing this person is not emotionally available and that is their choice and I can't change it.

"Trust you feelings" confused me for a long time too. Until I learned that codependents feel bad for not being able to make other people less withholding. I thought it was my job to make relationships work. My gut feelings were there trying to tell me that I cannot get "more" from this person no matter what I do but for a long time I ignored my own feelings if listening to my feelings meant being shorter visits and fewer visits with emotionally unavailable people.

Because I wanted to feel included, I ignored how I actually felt around certain people in the family.

Does that resonate? I agree with Call me Cordelia-  trust that you've seen some behaviours out of this person that you might see again.

[TooLiteral]

I have been wondering about this too. My therapist told me that because of the abuse I have sustained, my “moral compass” and my sense of self is all muddled, all jostled and messed up. My narc spent years wearing my self-confidence down enough that now I don’t even know who I am anymore, let alone what I want, what my goals and values are.

She suggested starting off by cultivating habits and rituals that make me healthy and happy. Not just the living stuff like work, eating, sleeping, etc. While these are terribly important, they will not help me grow into the person I am now. She suggested I start off with a self-help journal like 52 lists for Happiness or Mindfulness Journaling, schedule out a time every single day to journal. Make it a little “me time” ritual with candles and a bath or a glass of wine on the porch. Whatever makes it more special. Then grow from there.

I started doing that and it has grown into me taking a literature class online. Nothing huge. But taking that step. Not asking permission. Learning. Doing something I love. It has made me feel VASTLY more confident. I’m starting to remember the voice I lost so long ago. I can feel her stirring inside of me, stretching her wings again....

Just a thought. Whatever you decide to do, please know that you can trust yourself again. We all can. It just takes a little time. Be patient and loving with yourself. Your heart needs to heal. ❤️ Much love and light.

[Penny Lane]

Thanks for starting this topic notrightinthehead! I think about this a lot too.

On one hand you always hear "trust your gut." But on the other hand PDs seem to be masters at manipulating the situation so that either your gut feeling isn't triggered when they do something wrong OR you devalue your own perceptions. And then when you're healing you can get triggered and react in ways that aren't proportionate to the actual situation.

So. I think the first step is to say "these feelings exist" and try to get away from "should I feel unwelcome or not?" The fact is that you feel like you're not welcome. And presumably you don't like feeling that way.

I think the next step is to explore why you feel that way. Sometimes feeling unwelcome means you're picking up on unwelcoming signals. Sometimes it's a simple culture mismatch. Sometimes your brain articulates it as "feeling unwelcome" but if you really dig down what you're feeling is unsafe or unhappy there.

So you don't necessarily have to immediately act on those feelings. The feelings are just a cue to you to do a little thinking about what's prompting them.

I'm glad you mentioned stinking thinking (there's a description here for those of you who aren't familiar) because that process can be really helpful in assessing whether a feeling is based in something you're sensing or just something internal to you.

At the end of the day, you can do all the exploration in the world, and spend a ton of time talking to this relative. But if you've put in all the effort that you're willing to do and you still feel unwelcome - you can just stop going. You don't have to "prove" to yourself or others that your gut feeling is "correct" in order to listen to it. We don't have to put ourselves in unpleasant situations no matter how unhappy they make us.

I hope you can sort through this.

[notrightinthehead]

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies.

I am so glad that I am not the only one who struggles with this.

Cordelia, you are right, we survivors had enough squashing down our feelings, so the consensus seems to be to definitely allow the feelings and to feel them.

Then there is the question of trust when my feelings tell me one thing (e.g. this person does not want me around)  and the person tells me a different thing.  Athene you had success with trusting the person a little while keeping some doubt in your mind. I suppose that works well if we are in a good, not co-dependent, confident frame of mind.

I agree with treesgrowslowly that codependent traits make us knock on doors that will never open. And the more we realize that, the harder we knock. Because not being let in would make us a failure. Not being welcome in someone's house is a painful failure. And it feels quite different to welcoming houses. Sadly, no matter how much effort is put in, some people are just not emotionally available to me.

TooLiteral, I agree, self confidence plays a big part - a confident person would not doubt herself, would shrug unfriendly behaviour off with a 'she is in a bad mood' and move on to more fun people.

And I like your conclusion Penny Lane, in the end, the feeling is there, it is unpleasant, why must I stick it out?

[Lilyloo]

Great Topic!!  I have struggled with this for years, until recently.  I questioned myself, was it me, not all the others?  I would cave and let the same people hurt me and manipulate me. My Mother would bash me, then send an email saying "I miss my daughter"  Oh, I thought, maybe she does love me, maybe I matter. Wrong!!  I would fall for it, go visit and the same 'all about her' was the whole visit. I did this many times hoping for a different outcome. She continued to ignore my needs, and it was once again all about her.

Not anymore!!  I no longer trust easily because I have learned that I can't!  I go with my gut feelings and go also with what I learn each time I am used.  I accept I am nothing but a doormat for my Mother and others.

You and I deserve better and we should trust our feelings first

I remember visiting my Mother and 20 minutes into the visit,  watching the clock saying to myself, just 40 more minutes, waiting till I could get home to where I feel happy. 

So honor your feelings, know you are important and that no one else can fill our needs.

[1footouttadefog]

Do your feelings have to match their words?
...No.

Whether or not you feel welcome is not a matter of fact like some other things such as whether the laundry was done or not.

If you dont feel comfortable you have a right to chose not to be there in their home or presence.

Suppose this was matrer of a woman feeling like a man was hitting on her with unwanted advances and he insisted he was not but said she was sorry she felt that way but then it continued.

We would easily be able to say she should avoid contact with a man who made her feel ill at ease. 

You have a right to decide who you feel safe and accepted by regardless of their facts on the matter.

Family, friends or otherwise.

I think this story could contain elements   fear, obligation and guilt elements for any of us who encounter it or a similar situation. 

That the relative "is sorry you feel that way" sounds like you were medium chilled or grey rocked.  Not a sign she wants much of a connection at all. 

If someone I cared about told me they felt unwelcome in my home my response would be something like:

Wow tuvwxyz, I am sorry,  there must be a misunderstanding.  Of course you are welcome here and I always enjoy our time together. Lets get this cleared up because  you are important to me and if I have been rude to or hurt you in some way, I want to own it and fix it.  I have had a lot on my plate and have been scattered to be sure but by no means intended to send such a message.  Can we talk this through?  I have some time now, or we could get lunch or coffee soon I hope.

[notrightinthehead]

Thanks 1foot!
My reaction would be similar to yours if anybody told me they felt not welcome at my house.

I like the approach that we are entitled to feel any way we do, no matter what the other persons take on the situation is. This is part of taking oneself seriously - to accept  -this is how I feel now and that's ok.

[athene1399]

This is part of taking oneself seriously - to accept  -this is how I feel now and that's ok.

That's probably part of my problem. I was told by my parents that my feelings weren't acceptable. Maybe that's why I feel I can't trust them now. We are allowed to have feelings. I think I sometimes forget that. Maybe learning to accept the feelings will help us learn to trust them.

[all4peace]

Great question!

I think it's possible for you and the host to be "right." This person may not be comfortable having ANYbody in their home, and you may be picking up on that.

When I'm trying to figure out if my feelings are about something going on inside of me, or in the other person, I often try to observe their behavior over time. Sometimes it's just the way the person is--they're aloof, distant and cool to everyone. Or I go back and look at our recent interactions--does anything stand out as possibly contributing to any change in their attitude toward me? And I look at myself. Have I felt lonely lately? Not enough? Overtired, hungry, not enough exercise? If I haven't been taking care of myself, then sometimes I have a lot of uncomfortable feelings coming up in me that may be totally unrelated to the current situation I'm in. Once I've worked through all that, if I really think it's the other person, I may ask. Their answer may or may not bring light to the situation. If there's dissonance between how I feel in their presence, and how they say they feel in mine, I'll give it a few more times to observe.

I had this happen with a friend recently, only she felt sure I didn't want her visiting me. I looked inside myself, paid attention to how I'd felt about her visit, and I most definitely had been looking forward to having her visit. I told her of one extenuating circumstance that had been on my mind and frustrating me, but let her know it was totally unrelated to her and her visit. And she looked inside herself, realized she'd been dealing with a few things herself that may have been bleeding into our visit. We both owned our "stuff," let it go as one less-than-optimal visit and our friendship continues.

Just my own little case study of one

Back to your question, I think it's helpful to acknowledge if our own histories make us vulnerable to certain feelings. I am very vulnerable to feeling unworthy. You may be vulnerable to feeling unwelcome (or not). So while our feelings may be real, they may not be true. My feeling of unworthiness is very real to me. But it is not ever true. Does that make sense? For me I have been trying to learn to sit with uncomfortable feelings without acting on them. If they're related to someone who is near to me and trustworthy, I may share my feeling with them. I may ask my DD, "Are you and I ok?" when feeling like we're not. Her shocked "Of course!" helps me realize that something else may be leading me to feel fear that we're not ok. Or with DH I may say, "I'm feeling really unimportant to you right now because of XYZ," and it gives him a chance to reassure me of my significance in his life and examine his own behavior.

Brene Brown talks about "The story I'm telling myself is..." Actually I just read a great article about this! Here it is: https://www.gottman.com/blog/john-gottman-and-brene-brown-on-running-headlong-into-heartbreak/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=MM_267_The_Story_I%27m_Making_Up

It's a matter of acknowledging that our reality may not match someone else's, but they're both valid. So we make space for that by acknowledging "The story I'm telling myself is...." and giving them a chance to give their own story about the situation. I hope that makes sense.

Great thread!

[all4peace]

Oh, one more example.

I have a uNBPDm who was violent and abusive throughout my childhood. My feeling around her is wariness, mistrust, lack of safety, vigilance. It doesn't matter how much she or anyone in the world tells me she is safe, my body tells me she isn't and I finally listen to that. Always. I can be kind and polite, and I have physical and emotional distance out of respect for my feelings. I examined the situation in my head from 1000 different angles, and the fact is that her behavior history, her lack of significant change AND what my body tell me matter. Period.

So, sometimes my feelings are not reliable (such as when I was terrified DS was estranging himself from our family the first time he didn't answer my text after he'd left home) and sometimes they are.

[athene1399]

I like your thoughts about this

I think it's helpful to acknowledge if our own histories make us vulnerable to certain feelings. I am very vulnerable to feeling unworthy. You may be vulnerable to feeling unwelcome (or not). So while our feelings may be real, they may not be true. My feeling of unworthiness is very real to me. But it is not ever true. Does that make sense? For me I have been trying to learn to sit with uncomfortable feelings without acting on them. If they're related to someone who is near to me and trustworthy, I may share my feeling with them. I may ask my DD, "Are you and I ok?" when feeling like we're not. Her shocked "Of course!" helps me realize that something else may be leading me to feel fear that we're not ok. Or with DH I may say, "I'm feeling really unimportant to you right now because of XYZ," and it gives him a chance to reassure me of my significance in his life and examine his own behavior.

. This sounds helpful. 

[bloomie]

notrightinthehead - this is a great question and a great thread. Something we all have to face as a part of our maturation process I'm thinking, but the FOG of having grown up in a disordered home has in some ways circumvented this necessary ability, is to discern and act on what and who to trust.

Two things that have helped me kind of like a pressure relief valve around this - I honor my feelings and process them and I act on facts... which for me is consistent behaviors over time as all4peace suggested.

If I get caught up in narrative, either my own or another person's, I will flounder around if I am not careful. Because words have been used repeatedly to manipulate and control me and my internal narrative must always be filtered and examined. My own instincts have become more trustworthy over time, but I still examine my own thinking and emotional processes in response to others. And doing so without harsh self judgment and self shame is key for me.

The other thing that has helped me, is after looking at consistent behaviors over time from another person or at history or actual interactions between us, examining the narrative for logic and truthfulness, if I discern that this person is not someone I can trust to have closer contact with, then that is where I land and I do so with peace in my heart.

I could be wrong. Yep, I could be wrong in my conclusions. This person may be as trustworthy and honest as the day is long, but in my own determination, for me, based on history together, they are not safe and I do not draw closer to them.

It is not paranoid to have a different experience or conclusion of another than other people may have. It is just extremely uncomfortable to hold that tension in our heads when we have been conditioned to allow the narrative of another to determine their trustworthiness.

The thing about someone offering me their intentions about an atmosphere of unwelcome around them toward me is that intentions are only visible and of use to the person laying claim to them. Just as feelings are not facts, intentions are not evidence of any kind of actual good will. And unless the claim of good intentions is followed up by actual behaviors that draw you in and offer connection then they are just another narrative used to avoid responsibility ime.

There is a really great African Parable that gets to the heart of the matter for me found here: https://www.nacr.org/resource-center-on-emotional-and-relational-health/a-south-african-parable-what-about-the-bike

So, my thought is what about the hurt and unwelcome you have felt? This is your Aunt. Her intentions are not the issue. The disconnection between you is.

[notrightinthehead]

All4peace you are very lucky that you have people around you who you can ask and who give you re-assurance. Triggered flashback solved.

I am well acquainted with feeling unworthy and I know that this is my internal problem just like mind reading and now – possibly - feeling not welcome. So those would be situations that are best dealt with by being mindful, focussing on my breathing, becoming aware of my internal processes, if necessary or possible talking myself down and pushing through these triggered flash backs until they fade, and I can be an adult again. My feelings then would not be a normal response to a real situation but a triggered traumatic flash back to a situation in my past and it would be wiser for me not to trust them but sit them out.

So waiting it out to decide if it is a flashback or an appropriate response to a real situation would then be one strategy to decide if the feeling can be trusted.

Bloomie I so love the parable What about the bike? Thanks for that link. I did not know it before and found it rather powerful.

I guess my family member is not used to the me that expects to be treated with attentiveness , a bit of consideration,  kindness. She is used to the me that can be treated any way, ignored, left alone, made to do chores for her, snapped at, and all is well. She was surprised and saddened when I told her, I did not want to spend a holiday with her. She thought that a 'I miss you.' and a  'I love you' text should have set me straight.

Like you said, behaviour is the criteria we can use to decide if the feeling is a response to the present or not. And I ask myself – do I treat people I like this way? Do other people, I feel comfortable with treat me this way? Since the answer is no in this case, I have decided that in this particular case, I will trust my feelings.

Sadly it is a lot of work and not the easy default like for some lucky folks. We can flounder and have to sift through so much smoke and mirrors thanks to our past.