Advise me - should I ask for a custody trade for my own vacation

[Arkhangelsk]

Hi All!

So I stopped asking my ex for things years ago.  No matter how logical my request seemed, it always turned into crazy drama.  Instead, I find my own solutions without involving him.  This may mean that I already know my own answer - but I would love some input.  For background, my ex does not ask many favors from me - but when he does (to trade days to take the kids on a trip with his parents, or for me to keep the kids a few more hours so he can see his therapist) I always say yes.

But here is the deal - I train a combat sport - brazilian jiu jitsu.  I train almost everyday and have done for the past 4.5 years.  In February, I want to go to a special jiu jitsu camp to train.  The camp is in Costa Rico and my partner would go with me to make it into a vacation.  The camp is a big deal opportunity to really grow in my sport and I am in a place where it would be really good for me to have an intensive training experience like this.  Plus, I am super excited that my partner (who trains a different combat sport) has decided to support me and come to make it fun for us. The dates are set - so I cannot plan around my custody schedule.  And, of course, the camp is a weekend I have kids.

Generally, I plan all of my personal life for the weekends I do not have kids.  If there is a cool adults only activity, we turn it down.  I compete in jiu jitsu tournaments and I skip a ton of them that I would otherwise go to - if they happen to be on kids weekends. We almost never hire a babysitter for even a few hours - because I want my kid time to be about my kids.  I figure I am actually lucky on many levels to have so much time I can devote to myself - which is not a thing most mothers of 7 and 9 year old kids get.

But I decided this camp would be an exception - and that I would figure out child care, such as asking my parents to watch the kids.  This really makes me sad, however.  It is a long time to not see them.

So that is where we get to it.  Logically, my ex COULD make a trade with me.  I have certainly done it for him.  Chances are high he will say no.  I will not argue with him, if he does.  But some crazy part of me is like, why not ask?  Maybe this time he will do it.

Talk to me.  I am feeling frustrated that I am stuck in this spot with no perfect answer - either never have things just for me for the next 12 years when they happen to fall on the wrong day, or sometimes having a thing for me, but forgo a weekend with my kids.  (I feel like the kids will be very happy hanging with grandad, by the way - they will see this as a treat). 

[Phoenix Rising]

This sounds like a very frustrating situation but it is not impossible. I have NPDex who I share a child with and he never compromises on anything. I learned to just stick to the court arrangements and exhaust every option before asking him for a "favour". Not because I am not agreeable but because he will take any tidbit of information, such as a situation like yours, and use it to be difficult. I learned that it is best to keep everything neutral (gray rock), child-centred and to never expect favours.

Anyway - back to your situation - if this were my own, I would maintain the schedule and arrange for them to spend some time with them.  I would not engage and ask for a favour. You sound like an involved parent, having your kids spend one weekend or one visitation period does not change who you are, what you are to your kids or reflect on your parenting.

In a perfect world, you and ex could just switch weekends but assuming your ex is PD, that won't happen and if it does, it comes at a cost. Maybe it will help you to decide by looking back at the last time you asked ex for something and how it turned to drama. They don't change.

[eyesopen]

To most people, "Why not ask?" is followed by the thought, "the worst they can say is no."  But with the history of creating drama, it's clear he can do far worse than just saying no.

Things working in your favor here are: it's not until February so it isn't a last minute request, you can trade/offset the days so it's not too inconvenient or unfair, and you can just find alternate arrangements for child care if he resists.  Of course, those are all too logical and reasonable for a PD that will be reacting from emotion.

You might be surprised and get a reasonable response (...it could happen, but don't count on it).  Or he may react negatively and prove himself to be exactly who you know he is, but at least you'll know it's coming and can see his response for what it is (drama, manipulation, tantrum, etc.).  Either way, you don't need to get sucked into whatever drama he wants to create but you could at least have a chance at a positive outcome.

If his drama will be mostly words and waving fists around but not tangible action, then I say go for it and see what happens.  If history shows that he'll take action that affects you rather than just throwing a tantrum, then leave him out of it and the kids can stay with granddad.

[Penny Lane]

Oh man. I'm sorry. You're right, there are no good or easy answers.

I think you are most of the way to a solution - you've identified all the steps you need to take.
1. Ask your ex for a time switch. To expand on this: Give him two simple options - keep things as they are, or this weekend for another specific weekend or stretch of days. My advice would be to not even tell him why you want to switch. If he engages productively (like, suggests a different weekend that works better for him), keep engaging. If not, say "forget it." Spend as little energy on this as possible and don't get your hopes up about the response.
An alternative that might not work for you: Wait until he wants to give up a weekend and suggest he trade it for this specific one.
If that works out, great! You're done. (Though I would have a backup plan for if he cancels at the last minute and you have to find somewhere for the kids to go.)
Or, like the others say, you can skip this step. If that's what your gut is telling you to do, then that's ok too.
If he says no or causes problems 2. Tell the kids they get to have a cool weekend with grandpa, yay! Set it up as a treat for them, don't burden them with guilt over "I'm so sorry to leave you" type stuff.

One thought: Is it crazy to take them with you? My guess is, if it's February it's during school. But if that's an option, that would be special for everyone, I think.

It sounds like your real question though is about reconciling all your feelings about this. You're excited to go, but you will miss the kids. And you're frustrated that, although this SHOULD be an easy situation to work out with your ex, that your coparent is most likely going to be extremely unreasonable. And that means that it'll feel like missing out on precious time with your kids, (whereas if you had your kids full time it might instead feel like a welcome respite).

Here's where I'm coming from: As a stepparent, I don't think I have the same obligation to be there for the kids as the parent does. But, over time my sense of responsibility has grown and more and more I've passed on adults only activities during H's parenting time. The kids expect me to be there and they get pretty bummed when I make other plans, and I take that seriously. So I rarely plan other activities while the kids are with us - going forward I would expect it to be maybe a handful of times per year, and pretty much always only for a few hours at a time. I don't think H has ever hired a sitter for the kids on his parenting time - he's pretty much always there.

Here is what I think, and I think you know this: You doing this isn't harmful to the kids. As you said, they'll be excited. You plan your life around your custody schedule, which I think is generally the right thing to do. But you need to make time to be your own person, too, developing your interests and your passions. That ultimately makes you a better role model and better parent. While you should put your kids first - and you do - in most situations, you can't put yourself last every time either. The biggest problem this trip would create is that you'll miss the kids. You will survive that and so will they! You'll also have a great time, and they'll have a great time, and afterward you can catch up with them and share how much fun you each had. And they will look at their mom see what it looks like to have a happy fulfilling life while still meeting your adult responsibilities. My advice would be different if you were doing this all the time, of course. But as the kids get older this becomes more routine, more reasonable, to be away from them like this. Only you know what pushes "this is a cool thing that I will skip because I'd rather be with the kids" into "this is a once in a lifetime chance and I need to do it," but every parent has that line.

I know it feels more fraught because of the piece with your ex. But really, you'd be having to make this choice if you were still married to their dad. Watching kids deal with a parent who is a PD can create an incredible amount of guilt or sense of obligation - like, I have to be perfect to make up for the other parent. But in 10 years the kids are not going to look back and say, "wow a negative turning point in my life was when mom went away for one weekend." You know? Go on your vacation with your partner and have a wonderful time. Come back with pictures and stories and impart to the kids how great it is to explore, both your own interests and the world. Let them bond with their grandpa. Don't worry about what your ex. This isn't about him, this is about you.

[scapegoatnumerouno]

my thoughts....ask away!!  Who cares.  If he says no (do everything in your body to not let that get to you) the kids get to spend time with grandparents without you!!!  Awesome for the kids.  I am actually willing to be that if the kids had a say (not saying they should) they would tell you to go away for the weekend and let us be with grandma and grandpa!!!! 

[hhaw]

I'd copy the ex on an e mail where you made a change in the schedule for the ex, and ask.

Don't ask, don't get.

If nothing else, you're documenting how fair you're willing to be, and how unfair the PDex consistently is.

[athene1399]

IMO if you ask, don't give an open ended "choose a weekend to switch", maybe give him a couple of choices. Like "Something may have come up for me so I was wondering if I could have the kids on this weekend instead of that one." Then if he says no keep it as is and they can visit their grandparents (which sucks that you miss the time, but it doesn't give your ex extra time if he isn't willing to trade). And keep it vague if he asks what came up. The less he knows the better IMO.

I also like the idea someone said where if he does say yes, have your parents on standby in case he cancels last second.

I hope it works out for you.

[Arkhangelsk]

There is a lot of good advice here.  Thanks, guys.

Penny Lane - you really helped me with my mom guilt.  Because, you are correct.  This is not just a fret about my ex, but also a fret about taking time away from my kid time at all.  I have similar frets about sending my older son to sleep-away camp next summer.  The idea of losing a week of him just feels hard, and I know that it would not feel as hard if I were not splitting custody. 

But - you are right.  Good things can come of it, and in a way, there is some solid parenting going on when you can demonstrate that adults have a real life outside of their kids and that such interests can be balanced with parenting.  I am pretty sure I had no idea my own parents were humans with outside interests until I was 25.  Plus, unlike when the kids stay with their dad, with grandad, I can FaceTime with them every day. 

Thank you.

[cant turn back]

Ugh, nightmare!
My concern: you aren't just asking for a weekend switch, you are also going to be taking them out of the country.  If you throw it out there casually "can we switch weekends"... eventually your Ex will also have to find out that it will be a trip to Costa Rica.  Do they already have passports?  If not, that will be a huge headache to coordinate with your ExH.  It seems fraught with so many opportunities for the PD to create unnecessary drama (which is what they do) and I worry if you will be opening a whole other can of worms for yourself.  It really might be best to just coordinate a grandparents weekend.  I think there should be no issue for you to do something like this for yourself, for one weekend, and I second all of Penny Lane's commentary re mom guilt.. when you take care of and nurture YOU, that also is good for the kids.

[cant turn back]

As I continue to think about my response above, it just makes it so clear to be me how much I avoid dealing with my ExH as to our DD16.  In my situation I don't ever want to ask any favors or requests of my ExH because he makes everything such a nightmare.  Like he will have a fish on the line to jerk me around.  Alternatively, if a situation arises in which I am being asked to flex on something, I do so, no questions asked.  Like, I am still desperate to model appropriate coparenting behavior, desperate for him to catch the clue bus and get on-board, forever scratching my head wondering why he DOESN'T GET IT and rather seems to prefer to make everything harder than it needs to be.  ARGHHH, I still just can't wrap my head around why my ExH can't just be a normal person.  I hope the time will come that I care less about all this.

[Arkhangelsk]

I hear you, Can't.s

I have shifted my motivations on this point.  I am not trying to model anything for my ex.  He is incapable of sharing a reality with me.  Instead, I model for my children how I think co-parenting should work.  I also do not hide what their dad does, so they can come to a conclusion about that on their own. 

I let them in on my values on these things like this:  "I am so excited that you guys get to go to a fun waterpark over your spring break with your grandparents and cousins.  Your dad asked me to trade some days and I agreed right away - because I know you are going to have a great time.  It also gives us a bit of a longer stretch together afterwards, so we are planning to also do something fun.  Want to see some photos of where we will be going?"

Meanwhile, they have come to me to ask to do things on our time - like attend the annual Holi festival at the Indian Community Center, which they LOVE.  The past 2 years it has been on their dad's days.  I do not cover that up.  They ask to go.  I tell them I will ask for the time (we have a special occasions clause in our agreement for just such a thing, but the custodial parent can demure IF they have pre-scheduled plans.  Guess what?  Even months in advance, there are ALWAYS prescheduled plans).  So I end up telling them, "Well, I asked your dad about Holi and he said you have other plans."  Last year, the kids came back and said, "Mama, we stayed at home all weekend.  we missed Holi and there were no other plans."  I nodded and gave them hugs.   

[Penny Lane]

Mom guilt is a real thing! I hope I didn't inadvertently lay on additional mom guilt in my other thread. This is very different from what my BM is wanting to do. If nothing else it sounds like your thing really is once in a lifetime! Plus, your question is "should I go?" and her question is "can I manipulate the kids into being so upset that my ex will be forced to trade time with me?" which is what I'm really objecting to.

Another thing that I've found that it sounds like you're feeling is, we (and especially H) miss the kids when they're at their mom's. So having them be away from us even more during H's parenting time feels really hard and almost like unfair to us? Like missing a whole week because of sleepaway camp. Or even to a lesser degree sleepover birthday parties. But those things are a normal part of kids' development and they NEED to have that time away from either parent. Watching the kids grow up and become independent is just hard and bittersweet for parents. But don't let our culture lay mom guilt on top of that!

[cant turn back]

But those things are a normal part of kids' development and they NEED to have that time away from either parent. Watching the kids grow up and become independent is just hard and bittersweet for parents.

Yes!!
My DD is 16yo.  Over the last 18 months since I moved out and share custody (one week on/one week off) with my ExH it has been a time for me to gradually learn and come to terms with the fact that DD16 doesn't really seem to care which of us she is with on any particular week, rather, she is very focused on wanting to do things with her friends, go out, have fun.  So, I've gradually let out more rope when she wants to have lots of sleepovers with friends, etc rather than "but it's my week and I miss you" (which BTW is true).  All of this divorce stuff for me has just come at a time when DD16 is pulling away naturally, as all teens do (which makes it soo hard).  She needs me less and wants to be with me less (basically like all 16 year olds do).  SUCKS!!   Bratty teenagers.

[Arkhangelsk]

Thanks, Penny Lane.  I know that what I am trying to do and your kids' BM is trying to do is very, very different.  She could easily have picked a weekend she already had to throw a party.  Her vacation was no obstacle to that.  She did it for the sole purpose of causing problems.  Birthday parties can happen anytime.

But, you are right - what this is about is that sense of terrible loss.  We are all spending a lot les time with our kids than we wish.  Which has got to be worse with a 16 year old, Cant, then it is with a 9 year old.  But the durn kid just told me he forgets I exist when he goes to the beach with his dad. 

So I feel like I have to make my time count.  But, hey.  Let's look at it this way.  We have this circumstance that helps us take nothing for granted.  So when I am tempted to respond to a work email after dinner but before kid bedtime, I think twice.  When I feel like I do not want to have a 30 minute conversation about a video game, I think about how to find something interesting about it.  I am trying to be keyed in and tangibly present in the time I have.  And I know that I am deeply engaged a much higher percentage of the time I have then I used to be when I had them all the time.  On some level, quality time has to be a thing, because our quantity is reduced.

[cant turn back]

"I feel like I have to make my time count".
Ark, I am right there with you.  And it is this sentiment that causes me so much distress.  When it's my week with DD16 I feel so much pressure to connect, to say the rights thing, to make a positive impact. On those days when she is distant or spending a lot of time on her cell phone, or chillin in her room or dismissive and bratty (generally being a 16yo) .. I STRESS, like I only have so long to right the ship and reconnect and help her and ... you know... get it right... yet, she doesn't even want to talk to me.  Then, inevitably as things get more normal, feel more natural, then, it's time to pack up and go back to dad's house.  The battle to be a good, strong, present parent to a 16yo, when you are only able to do it 50% of the time... it's almost like I feel I have to pull a double shift to make up for when she is not with me... for a 16yo who thinks they don't need any parenting at all.
It's maddening.
I hate to say it or feel it but the weeks my DD16 is not with me are so less stressful and I feel better about myself.    I go to work where I generally have everything under control and have mastery of it, I work out regularly, get to bed at a reasonable hour (my DD16 likes to stay up late)... of course I manage to do much of this when DD16 is with me, but there is just so much more duress, like I'm floundering and failing... reaching my arms out towards her as she is pulling away.
It's the hardest thing.

[Hikercymru]

Hello,
I am weighing in from a grandmothers perspective and from someone who did not see their kids often enough during their teenage years due to manipulation of their dad. (And I am happy to say this has changed as they grew up).
My advice is to not try to swap, but give the grandparents some extra time. Rise above your needs. If you ask for a swap you risk lots of stress.
Think of the grandparents, they probably would love this opportunity to spend time with their grandchild. And it is good for your child to spend time with the older generation.
And, one more thing: Enjoy your time away with a happy heart!

[Arkhangelsk]

Thank you Hiker!
I did ask my parents and they did agree to come live at my house that week and see the kids through their routine.  So I am very lucky they want to be involved that way, and I think my kids will like it a lot.

Cant -
Your situation is different than mine, because your daughter is older.  My challenge is making sure I stay focused - because sometimes my little boys want my attention and I am tempted by other things.  Your situation reminds me to take advantage of the fact that they want my attention right now. 

In your shoes, I think you are being hard on yourself.  You have a set amount of time with your daughter and you can be present and available - but she may not always engage.  But you still get to go to work, to the gym and to bed on time when you have her.  And I think you should.  Just keep letting her know you have time for her.  Schedule meal times or special dates (my dad used to find free concerts at churches and drag me to them to hear classical music).  A lot of times we did not talk about much.  But I had this huge sense that he made time to be with me.  Sometimes I used that time to really talk to him.  Maybe there are even some family chores or activities that you ask her to do with you before all that video time. 

Have you talked to her about it?  Asked her to work with you to mark out some undistracted family time and told her why it is so important?