Accusations of silent treatment but they are giving it!

[Sidney37]

So I've been getting the silent treatment for months.  UPDM yelled at me and hung up on me when I set a simple boundary and expressed that I didn't like how negatively she was speaking to me.  Even enD said not to talk to her because she was being unreasonable.  He continued to communicate with me in secret for a while, but that stopped about a month ago.

Fast forward to this week.  Now they are accusing me by text of giving them the silent treatment and demanding that I stop!  I know they are telling others that I'm giving them the silent treatment.  Is this the DARVO that someone posted about the other day?  How do you combat being the offender when you are actually the victim without JADEing?  Add to it that enD MIGHT have a serious health condition that they hinted about on social media but haven't told me about.  I heard from someone who follows them because I'm barely looking at social media due to the nonsense.  She likes to weaponize info when I don't call them every day at the proper time. 

[moglow]

Very familiar with this one, Sidney. So many times mother has accused me or others of silent treatment after she's slammed down the phone/abruptly ended conversations in anger. We (and you maybe?) are supposed to grovel, call and call and call until she deigns answer the phone - AND she expects an apology for making her mad. Well, that used to be exactly what happened, for most of my life.

Several years ago now, I finally stopped the grovel. I've backed off and call much less often, visit her even less. Why? I realized a) she's not all thst interested in me/others, just uses people as sounding boards for the many and assorted ills, frustrations and anger in her life; and b) you slam down a phone/hang up on me, I'm going to assume you don't want to talk to me. That's not silent treatment, dear - that's me with nothing productive, useful or pleasant to say. There's a difference!

So really, that's my advice - try calling when you have something to say, news to share, not just to sit and be pounded away at for stuff that isnt yours. I'm not saying make it all about you, but def try and limit the beatdown and gripe sessions. Ask about them, be interested obviously, but dont hang around just so she can fill dead air with anger. And consider setting a mental time limit. Oops look at the time, gotta go, we'll talk soon! Make those calls something to want instead of somerhing to drag yourself painfully through, ya know?

[illogical]

I think you have to decide if you are willing to call your mother given the constraints on your relationship, i.e.--

1) Your mother likely won't ever take accountability for hanging up on you.  She will make something up to blame you for what really happened.
2) Your mother wants to keep you in the "child" role.  She likely won't ever admit you are an adult with your own thoughts.  This is so she can control you.
3) Your father is going to ultimately align himself with your mother.  IMHO, it would be very difficult to carry on a separate relationship with him, as everything he does seems to go past your mother first.  That's what she wants to do with you, to make herself the "gatekeeper".

So given those constraints, are you willing to talk to your mother?  If I did, I agree with Moglow-- i.e., I would only call her if I had something to say, not just to "check in" or ask her about the weather.  And if I did call, I would be prepared for more blaming, shaming and bullying.  So I would have my boundaries firmly in place.

Can your DH call your father to ask him what is going on medically?  I really feel that if your dad wanted you to know what was going on with him, he would contact you.  He is an adult, even if he's constrained by your mother.  Surely he could find a time to call you when she wasn't around. 

[WomanInterrupted]

I don't think I'd have DH ask about your father's "health scare" - I think that was a carrot that was dangled, to see if you'd come running to the rescue. 

My feeling is if people want to play games with information like that, I'm not going  to be involved or concern myself with it.  I don't like being played or manipulated.   

Words intended to bait:

Could be, might be, rule out, possible, maybe, not sure, think, testing, undefined, inconclusive, more testing needed, perhaps - and anything of a *vague* nature, like getting on the internet and asking for thoughts and prayers, but not stating WHY, and leaving people dangling. 

I've been to the "health scare" rodeo FAR too many times, where unBPD Didi started having herself hospitalized for  makeitupitis, and when that didn't work on me, it seemed like every other week, it was a "caaaaaaaaaancer" scare that turned out to be bogus.   

Those also didn't work - I didn't come running.  I stayed home and when she finally was diagnosed with cancer, my first thought was, "Right - pull the other one." 

But I do agree to call only IF you want to, and *when* you feel like you can handle it, and actually have something to say *that can't be used against you later.*  (Like your DD, the arm sling and all the drama your mom created around that.) 

If that means you don't call for several months - so be it.   

If you decided to call, do NOT grovel or apologize for anything.  Act like everything is just lovely, and if your mom  wants to behave badly, get snotty, sneers or spits words at you, or generally just sounds miserable and unpleasant, I'd end the call with, "I can tell you're getting upset.  We'll catch up later.  Goodbye." 

If more vague hints are thrown out about your father's health, I'd stick with, "I'm sure his doctor knows what he's doing/has this/will refer him to a great specialist." 

Just so you know, unBPD Didi was big on giving me the ST, then acting like  I was the one doing it to her.  I'd *ignore* all insinuations and carry on like things were just fine, use Medium Chill, and she'd still slam the phone down in my ear, five minutes later - because I wasn't doing what she wanted in groveling, begging her forgiveness, and becoming OVERLY concerned about her problems. 

Once you malfunction, that's it - things will never be the same again because you're not playing the ridiculous and useless mind-games they want to play.

[Call Me Cordelia]

 

Heck yeah it's DARVO. Since they are directly accusing you of giving the silent treatment, I think you can state your truth and your boundary one time. Something like, "I am not giving you the silent treatment. You are welcome to call and have a respectful conversation with me." Or whatever fits your situation.

And then when/if they do, do all the stuff WI said lol. Including ending the call should it turn accusatory.

I personally would not end this stalemate by calling, because they would likely see that as they finally WON and their accusations got you to comply.

[Cat of the Canals]

Many years ago, before I was Out of the FOG, my dad informed me via email that my uBPD mother was annoyed that I hadn't been calling enough. He suggested she call me if she wanted to talk to me so badly. Her response was, "I'm not calling her until she calls me first!"  And of course I did exactly that, which only reinforced that if she really wants something from me and isn't getting it, she just needs to rally the Flying Monkeys!

This is a game. Part of her smear campaign to make it sound like Sidney37 is the Bad Guy and mommy is the Poor Victim. If it wasn't the silent treatment she was accusing you of, it'd probably be something else. Don't fall for it.

[Kiki81]

It is indeed a game. It's called "All The Power And Control: Who's Got It?"

sane and healthy people don't participate in this game. Instead, they simply Drop The Rope and conduct their relationships with healthy and sane people, who don't play either.

[TriedTooHard]

Kiki81 is right.

Its confusing and crazy making to be accused of using the same techniques as the PDs.  Especially as we spend a lot of time and effort learning about PDs and healthier coping techniques.  This is not a professional opinion, but as I see it, the depth of our understanding is the major difference between what we're doing and what the PDs do.  I have spoken to a T about this and she reminded me to continue on with learning healthier coping techniques and to not discuss or use psychological terms with most people.  In other words, drop the rope, like Kiki81 writes.

By being aware of this dynamic and not looking at their social media as much as you used to, you are strong and well on your way to getting through this one. 

Think of the differences here between what you're doing, and what your parents are doing.  Your mother's silence comes with these things, along with probably much more:

triangulation (enD, and their social media followers in the middle of communications)
accusations (dropping the rope does not include accusing anyone of anything, it simply means giving up the game and walking away)
resorting to health issues to gain attention

[p123]

Many years ago, before I was Out of the FOG, my dad informed me via email that my uBPD mother was annoyed that I hadn't been calling enough. He suggested she call me if she wanted to talk to me so badly. Her response was, "I'm not calling her until she calls me first!"  And of course I did exactly that, which only reinforced that if she really wants something from me and isn't getting it, she just needs to rally the Flying Monkeys!

This is a game. Part of her smear campaign to make it sound like Sidney37 is the Bad Guy and mommy is the Poor Victim. If it wasn't the silent treatment she was accusing you of, it'd probably be something else. Don't fall for it.

Ha ha - last holiday (vacation) I had numerous facebook messages from Dad FM (my brother) that I hadnt called Dad enough..... Yeh right I'm away, having fun, and theres  a 5 hour time difference. This years I'm going to call him at 8am Eastern time (which would be 3am UK time) and say "only time I can call we're off to Disney. Oops is it 3am?"

[Sidney37]

Thanks everyone.  It's always good to get a reminder that this is her and not me.  My enD called.  He's still not "permitted" to talk to me, but seems to miss me and the kids.  He seems well aware that it's her not speaking to me, but wants to talk to me in secret,  I told him to think about how crazy it is that it's as if he is having an affair with his own daughter.  It's part flying monkey part sad father/grandfather who has been verbally abused by her for years.

She asked me months ago just before the silent treatment what I meant when I said that I didn't like how negative her comments were to me on the phone and I would would be hanging up when she talked to me like that going forward. She demanded to know what I meant.   I gave her 2 examples of her really snide, negative criticisms.  She's turned one into a completely innocent, polite, grandmotherly question that expresses concern for my safety.     She's now going around telling people that I'm giving her the silent treatment over this totally kind, innocent question.  I hate being made to look like an evil person. 

[WomanInterrupted]

P123 - I thought something sounded off with your time calculation, so I checked.  The UK is 5 hours ahead of US Eastern Daylight Time, so if you want to call him at 3AM, UK time, you'd need to call at 10PM, US EDT.  You can say you just got in from a fun-filled day at Disney -oops!  It's 3 AM.  My bad.   

Friends don't let friends accidentally shoot themselves in the foot. 

Calling him at 8AM, EDT, would mean catching him at 1 in the afternoon, UK time, and you definitely don't want that!   

PS - if you want to get your dad a souvenir, I'd opt for the mouse ears, since he's such a "fan" of the US.   

Sidney, oh, let her bleat her sad, sad, sad, sad, OH SO SAAAAAAD bleats to anybody who wants to listen.  The way she's carrying on, people are going to figure out pretty quickly that she's the one with the problem, and not  you.   

Those that don't?  Well, those are probably minions, and who cares what think? 

Eventually, somebody is probably going to say to her, "If I thought my daughter was giving me the Silent Treatment, I'd call her to smooth things over, even if it meant apologizing for things I didn't know I did.  Why don't you try that approach?"

She'll shoot that suggestion down, probably loudly and angrily - and yet another person will figure out  where the problem really is.   

The more she kicks up and carries on, the *better* it is for you, because people aren't stupid, and will probably start saying - if they haven't started, already - "If that's even *close* to how she talks to her daughter, it's a wonder her daughter didn't cut ties YEARS ago!"   

We know you're not "the bad guy" or "evil" - and you know it, too.   

Your mother *has* to twist things around so she's the victim, because she's *incapable* of being held accountable for her own actions and words.  She's been doing it all her life, and has got it down to an art form - so leave her be, let her twist words and victimize herself, while you bask  in The Silent Treat.   

When she decides it's over, *please* stick to your plan and hang up the second she says anything abusive, negative, nasty, or hostile - and if she wants to think you're giving her the ST again, she can go right on thinking it.   

People like your mom  don't learn and can't  change - but we can, and we can use their own weaknesses and tendencies against them, to make OUR lives better - and a LOT more quiet. 

Hang in there - you're doing GREAT!   

[p123]

P123 - I thought something sounded off with your time calculation, so I checked.  The UK is 5 hours ahead of US Eastern Daylight Time, so if you want to call him at 3AM, UK time, you'd need to call at 10PM, US EDT.  You can say you just got in from a fun-filled day at Disney -oops!  It's 3 AM.  My bad.   

Friends don't let friends accidentally shoot themselves in the foot. 

Calling him at 8AM, EDT, would mean catching him at 1 in the afternoon, UK time, and you definitely don't want that!   

PS - if you want to get your dad a souvenir, I'd opt for the mouse ears, since he's such a "fan" of the US.   

Sidney, oh, let her bleat her sad, sad, sad, sad, OH SO SAAAAAAD bleats to anybody who wants to listen.  The way she's carrying on, people are going to figure out pretty quickly that she's the one with the problem, and not  you.   

Those that don't?  Well, those are probably minions, and who cares what think? 

Eventually, somebody is probably going to say to her, "If I thought my daughter was giving me the Silent Treatment, I'd call her to smooth things over, even if it meant apologizing for things I didn't know I did.  Why don't you try that approach?"

She'll shoot that suggestion down, probably loudly and angrily - and yet another person will figure out  where the problem really is.   

The more she kicks up and carries on, the *better* it is for you, because people aren't stupid, and will probably start saying - if they haven't started, already - "If that's even *close* to how she talks to her daughter, it's a wonder her daughter didn't cut ties YEARS ago!"   

We know you're not "the bad guy" or "evil" - and you know it, too.   

Your mother *has* to twist things around so she's the victim, because she's *incapable* of being held accountable for her own actions and words.  She's been doing it all her life, and has got it down to an art form - so leave her be, let her twist words and victimize herself, while you bask  in The Silent Treat.   

When she decides it's over, *please* stick to your plan and hang up the second she says anything abusive, negative, nasty, or hostile - and if she wants to think you're giving her the ST again, she can go right on thinking it.   

People like your mom  don't learn and can't  change - but we can, and we can use their own weaknesses and tendencies against them, to make OUR lives better - and a LOT more quiet. 

Hang in there - you're doing GREAT!   

WI - Of course. I go every year so should know the time difference! Must be going mad.... Thanks - calling him at 1pm would suit him down to the ground - he'd want a call every day!!!!

Ha ha - hes already said "don't buy me any of that rubbish they sell in America!". Always says this. So guess what he gets (whilst wifes mother does get presents ) - sweet FA!!!!!

[illogical]

So glad your dad called!  As I said in my last post, I thought he would if he wanted you to know about his situation, even though your mother is trying her best to act as "gatekeeper".  At the very least, you know in the future that your mother is trying to keep information to use as a weapon toward you and you can make your decisions-- i.e., whether to call/not call, etc.-- based on that knowledge.  Also, she's never going to take accountability/blame for her actions.  That's been going on most of your life, from what you posted on another thread, and will also likely continue. 

[Cat of the Canals]

The way she's carrying on, people are going to figure out pretty quickly that she's the one with the problem, and not  you.   

Those that don't?  Well, those are probably minions, and who cares what think? 

Have you ever been around someone that complains non-stop and plays the "woe is me" card a little too often? Because when I'm around someone like that, I might show some superficial sympathy out of politeness, but on the inside, I'm thinking, "This person always seems to have some crisis they're going through..." And then I start to wonder if maybe they aren't inventing/instigating said crises.

[moglow]

She asked me months ago just before the silent treatment what I meant when I said that I didn't like how negative her comments were to me on the phone and I would would be hanging up when she talked to me like that going forward. She demanded to know what I meant.   I gave her 2 examples of her really snide, negative criticisms.  She's turned one into a completely innocent, polite, grandmotherly question that expresses concern for my safety.   (https://outofthefog.net/forum/Smileys/default/stars.gif)  She's now going around telling people that I'm giving her the silent treatment over this totally kind, innocent question. 

Sing it, sister! Been there, did that with mine too. Very familiar with that particular twist to a straightforward answer to their supposed kind caring question. And let's be honest - what would be her response/reaction were you to make those exact comments (including inflection) to her? Yeah. That.

Mine has historically made snide, belittling, "joking" putdowns, always excused or laughed them off if confronted. You know, I'm too sensitive or can't I take a joke - no recognition that all the negative comments pile up after a lifetime of it. Or that she wouldnt appreciate or find it funny *at all* were I or anyone else to talk to her that way.

A number of years back I stopped her in the middle of an otherwise calm conversation, asked her to please stop saying that I'm (insert insult of choice here). It hurts my feelings and makes me feel that's how she sees me, it's not funny to me in any way. She. Went. Off. Claimed I attacked her, told God and everybody who'd stand still long enough about me attacking her. I insulted her! I mocked her! I abused her! She went from there into a snarl of epic proportions about my lack of character and the disrespect being shown her. Um, huh??? I asked her to stop calling me names, told her I was hurt by it. I didn't raise my voice, say one foul word but I had dared speak up for myself. Not allowed!

Anyway, yes, I get where you are. Try and remember what she tells others says a whole lot more about her than it ever will you. She (and they) may think what they will, you're just not groveling and sweeping her behavior under the rug. You broke her rules - and probably well past time for that.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Absolutely, moglow. I had an eerily similar experience with my MIL. She went so far as to scream, "I am NOT LIKE YOUR PARENTS!" Even though I said or implied no such thing. She knew they were abusive and I had gone NC. Guess where MIL is now? 

DARVO, all DARVO. Accepting responsibility for even the smallest thing is simply not possible, no matter how far down the consequence spiral that takes them.

[Sidney37]

Many years ago, before I was Out of the FOG, my dad informed me via email that my uBPD mother was annoyed that I hadn't been calling enough. He suggested she call me if she wanted to talk to me so badly. Her response was, "I'm not calling her until she calls me first!"  And of course I did exactly that, which only reinforced that if she really wants something from me and isn't getting it, she just needs to rally the Flying Monkeys!

This is a game. Part of her smear campaign to make it sound like Sidney37 is the Bad Guy and mommy is the Poor Victim. If it wasn't the silent treatment she was accusing you of, it'd probably be something else. Don't fall for it.

Thanks.  They are all so similar, aren't they?  It's truly crazy making.  I got a text today from her.  The first contact in months.  I stated my boundary again.  I will talk to her as long as she is being kind.  (And honestly I don't by believe she can). I then get the demand that I call her (because she won't call me). stars:

[WomanInterrupted]

I'd ignore the demand and call only IF you have something to say (that can't be used against you), and not to "just check in."

I'd call *only* if and when I felt emotionally healthy and balanced enough to do it - and yes, stick to that boundary.  If she gets angry, nasty, or snotty, the ride stops and you hang up. 

If you haven't blocked her or unfriended her on FB, or made it so that she can't see your posts, I'd do that before I even thought about calling - that way, it can't be used against you to have mountains made out of molehills.

Another thing you can do, if you decide to call, is *set a time limit* - set the kitchen timer to go off, "(Gotta go - food's ready..."), the dryer to buzz, ("Gotta go - these sheets won't fold themselves..."), or ring the doorbell.  ("Gotta go - somebody's at the door.")

If she demands to know WHO - Amazon.  You forgot what you ordered.   

OR  you can take this time to seriously consider blocking her number and going NC.  Your father didn't mention anything about his health problems - and they really are none of your concern.  They are HIS and *he* can manage them.

You don't need to be involved.

And you don't have to have ANY of this in your life if you just say, "I can't do it.  I HAVE to go NC, because these insane games she's playing are only getting WORSE!" 

Just *think* about it, at least. 

[Sidney37]

I don't think I have a thing to say to her.  I don't have anything to tell her or a reason to call.  She eventually uses everything against me or gossips about everything I tell her.  A call right now would be nothing but a check in.  I don't want her to know a thing about me or my family.   I can't think of one thing that I want to say.  I'm not at a place emotionally that I want to call her.  I can talk briefly to her and be nice if she calls me, but she has refused for quite some time to call me or to even return a call.  I have to be the one to call, know her schedule as to when she will be there, read her mind to know if it's a time she actually wants to talk, etc.   If she's not there, I have to keep calling until she answers.  Remember I called multiple times on Mother's Day and she didn't answer?  I was told that I didn't call enough times.  I should have tried more.     It's a game and it's controlling.  Calling her after all of this time on a demand is a game that she is playing.  I'm not playing her phone games any more.

She's put me in a position where she demands that I call.  If I don't will tell others "See, I tried to talk to Sidney and SHE's the one who's not being nice. I offered to talk to her, but SHE won't talk to MEEEEEE."  My boundary was that I would talk to her if she was being nice. She'll insist that telling me to call her is being nice.  It isn't.  I know I'll get lectured by her if I do call about ME giving HER the silent treatment or how mean she thinks I have been to her.  If I don't call, she and the flying monkeys will use it as proof that I lied. I told them that I'd talk to her if she was kind, but she tried and I didn't call her.  She "tried to be kind" and I didn't respond.  I'm made to feel guilty no matter what I do. 

[Cat of the Canals]

I'm not at a place emotionally that I want to call her.

That's all I need to hear. Don't call!

I'm having my own mini version of this right now. Mom was giving me ST, but now that she's decided to lift it, I'm expected to pick up the phone and be best buddies again.  I almost caved last night and did it, just to get it over with, but I knew I'd feel horrible if I did. I'm done pretending that "everything is fine" for her benefit.