It's grandma all the time

[psychology.student]

Hello everyone,
some time ago I posted about my boyfriend and his bossy grandma. Now I feel so much anger and I have to express it here because I feel like no one understands me.
He and grandma have had unhealthy relationship since his childhood. She isolated him from everyone: his parents, his friends, later even the all relatives. She never let him ride a bike, visit friends, go out as a teenager. Now he's 25 and he is still totally under her influence. We have been in relationship for 8 years and all this time I have struggled to oppose his grandma trying to ruin our relationship ever since. Now I feel like I have lost the battle.
She is very sneaky and never directly says we shouldn't be together or we shouldn't go out. She does this in a smooth way and always says she would never do such a thing. But she does!
We didn't go to vacation this summer, we didn't properly celebrate my birthday and now he doesn't want to celebrate my diploma with my family. On the day when I got the diploma we planned to go to dinner, but she kept calling and she always gives him something to do that cannot wait and of course, he always does this like a puppy. They are both sick.
She plays a victim when I try to confront her. She says I don't respect her and I don't understand that she suffered all her life. Sometimes I start to feel sorry for her. She's very convincing.
She persuades my boyfriend that my family is bad, that they hate him and that they think he's not good enough. But my parents are always nice to him. He hardly goes to our family picnics and birthdays because he thinks we don't like him and he feels unwelcomed.
He does what he's told but in rare moments, he says he's like a slave to her. He's afraid that she would kick him out and he would be homeless.
I wish I had those abilities his grandma posseses. Her influence is so subtile, but on the other hand so strong. I know it's mean but I think things will be ok only when she dies. Waiting for her to die seems too long.
Has any of you had similar experiences? Please don't tell me to end this relationship. I really love this man. I know it's also his fault that he complies to grandma.

[Pepin]

Sadly....the grandma is not going to change and likely your boyfriend won't either.  What they are both showing you is exactly who they are.  What you have to decide is whether or not you can continue with them having the relationship that they have. 

Obviously your boyfriend is happy to continue being with his grandma regardless of what is going on in your life.  I am sorry that he is missing out on you receiving a diploma -- a very important occasion that has personal meaning to you and your family. 

It sounds to me like this kind of relationship is an enmeshment. 

She says I don't respect her and I don't understand that she suffered all her life.

Actually, my read on this is that SHE doesn't respect herself.  She is seeking outside supply through manipulation of her grandson.  Why should anyone have to "respect" another person's suffering is beyond me.  We all have to deal with our own suffering, whatever that is -- and it is not the same for everyone.

Your relationship with your boyfriend is suffering because you have expectations for him that he cannot meet.  Can you go forward loving a man who doesn't love himself?  He loves his grandma and when she is gone he will likely be shattered having succumbed to her every beck and call throughout his life. 

I really don't think there is much you can do...as you have said that you have tried.  Moving far away together might help...but if your boyfriend cannot carve out time for you then what is there?  He has not even carved out time for himself.  He just doesn't know how.

[WomanInterrupted]

What a mess!  I'm so sorry you're going through this!

I know you love him, and you're in it for the long haul, but your BF is 25, which I'm guestimating puts his grandmother in the 65-75 y.o. range, or possibly even 80. 

Many of us here have elderly parents who are WELL into their 80's - or even 90's.  How does the thought sit with you that you could be caught up in this situation for 10 more years, minimum - or possibly 20 or *more*? 

Do you really want to be on standby, that long? 

And grandma isn't going to age well, I can promise you that.  They get WORSE - and your BF will be spending all his time covering for her deficits, because she can't keep up the front of being "fine" without a LOT of help from him - including doing her finances, cleaning her house, taking care of home repairs, making her meals, running her here, there and everywhere, acting as her nurse, and taking her to the ER every time she feels bored - or it's a holiday, it's your birthday or anniversary, or you have a date planned, and grandma doesn't want him spending time with you. 

Is this *really* what you signed on for?  Taking a permanent back seat until she's passed on? 

You said he sometimes says he feels like a slave - that's *exactly* what he is.  Right now, he's a kind of happy slave, or okay with things - it's up to him to decide, NO, this is NOT how my life is supposed to be. 

What you can do in those moments is offer *other suggestions* to him - if she needs a ride, she can call Uber or a taxi.  If she needs meals, she can call Meals on Wheels.  If she needs help around the house, she can ask her doctor for the name of a reliable service that provides home care aides.  If she needs a cleaner, she can call Merry Maids.  If she's afraid of being alone, she can obtain Life Alert, and know help is right there, any time she needs it.  If she thinks the house is getting to be too much for her, she could consider Independent Living or Assisted Living, depending on her physical and mental condition. 

If you start planting those seeds in your BF's head, hopefully they'll start to take root and grow - yes, grandma has options, but she *just doesn't want to use them.* 

Once he realizes  that she's taking advantage of him, and is *using* him, with luck, he'll become resentful of her taking up all his time and energy - time and energy he could be using on other things - because grandma just doesn't want to help herself, or manage her own life.

She wants to abdicate ALL responsibility for herself, but retain total *control* - of not only her life, but your BF's - and *yours.*

Once resentment sets in, it's a LOT easier to have boundaries and start pushing things back to her side of the table, where they belong, and your BF might surprise you by saying, "Grandma, if you need your lawn cut, you'll have to hire a service.  I can't do it." 

Or, "Grandma, if you need to go to the ER, call an AMBULANCE." 

Or, "Grandma, I can't just drop everything because your sink is clogged.  Call a plumber."   

You can also start musing aloud that grandma only seems to have "emergencies" when your BF is going to spend time with you or you and yours - isn't that so *odd?* 

Don't sound angry - just put it out there as thought, and keep putting it out there any time it happens.  You want your BF to hear it, so hopefully it'll sink in that he's got to *stop telling her anything.* 

Another thing you can suggest to him is it's time to move out and stand on his own two feet - living with her does him NO good, and puts him at a disadvantage, as he's *beholden* to her for a roof over his head. 

You could broach it to him as a good way to start establishing his own credit - which he'll need as he goes through life.  Paying rent to grandma or living there for free doesn't show up on a credit report, and can actually harm him, when it comes time to try to buy or finance big-ticket items, like a car or condo.  He may be declined for insufficient credit. 

Once he's out, he can try putting her on a *strict schedule* - I come Monday, Wednesday and Friday, for example, and I stay 4 hours *only.*  If anything is needed outside those time frames, you'll have to call somebody else.  I won't be able to do it. 

Grandma will HATE this with the power of 10,000 suns, and fight tooth and nail, *but* it's the only way off the crazy merry-go-round of dysfunction.   He's got to realize what's going on (you, whispering in his ear about the options she's refusing), and pull back enough that the rest of his FOO really sees WTF is going on, and either gets involved in her care, or starts taking action to help her move into IL, where help will be just a  push-button away. 

Another thing you can do is start using Medium Chill on Grandma - it's in the Toolbox and is a  *godsend* for her constant complaints and statements like, "You don't understand!" 

You'll be able to disengage in a neutral way, without being seen as disrespectful - and your BF might start catching on to your lingo and phrases, and start using them himself, to de-escalate situations where she's not getting her way and is about to pitch a fit or have a tantrum - or is just in a snit because you two have a date you won't postpone for her creaky door hinges needing attention NOW. 

It'll be a *lot* of work on your part, being the gentle voice in his ear that doesn't prompt or goad, but merely *offers other options grandma could utilize, but just doesn't want to*, and agrees that yes, she does treat him like a slave - but he doesn't have to live that way, if he doesn't *want* to. 

You could give it a try, and see how it goes - it can't hurt, and hopefully, his eyes will really start to open with your gentle, consistent encouragement.   

You don't want to harm grandma, only help him stop dancing the enmeshed Dysfunctional Dance he's been dancing so long.   

He can stop dancing, if he wants - hopefully your words will help him realize it. 

[TalenCrowhaven]

I was with a "Grandma's Boy" for 23 years.

Do some research on "Mama's Boys". The situation is very similar.

I found it to be a losing battle, even after she died.

Good luck to you!

[psychology.student]

When we go out and she keeps calling like it's an emergency, I always tell him it  can't be a coincidence. He just says I deserve someone better because he accepted that this is how his life is. He says that he's sorry but he can't take me on vacation or dinner. He says he's got no choice.
Sometimes I feel like they don't have respect for me. Last time grandma made fun out of my diploma and psychology itself. She thinks psychologist is not a real or worthy occupation.
She keeps telling my BF that I don't do anything even though I cook and clean every day. Now the problem is that I don't work in the garden. Which is not even mine. She said he needs a girl who does this. The best girl would be from a good family of farmers who doesn't have a diploma because I'm overeducated for him.
Maybe I should just give up. I'm not respected, the grandma treats me like shit and my BF doesn't stand up for me.

[WomanInterrupted]

Here's the thing - if you moseyed out to the garden and turned out to have the world's best green thumb, or revealed you *do* have farming in your genes (your parents run a successful farm and trained you to do the same),  she'd find something else to complain about.   

That's the nuts and bolts of it.  They will *always* find something to complain about.  You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

If you feel you're being treated with disrespect, your education (which is *impressive*, BTW) is being belittled or treated as a bad thing, and he's put you on notice that grandma always comes first, I think it's really time for you to do some soul searching - he's already told you that you deserve better (probably as a FOG tactic, to make sure you stay), but the truth is you DO. 

You're a psychology student - imagine your BFF writing your initial post in this thread.  What would you advise her?

You might give some advice like mine, or other advice - or you might tell her to drop the relationship and get on with her life, because it's too damned short to be waiting around for a guy who is *never going to be emotionally available.* 

TalenCrowhaven touches on another subject - after grandma passes on, things will probably go from bad to worse - she was his *identity* for so long that he'll be completely devastated and probably unable to cope *and* he'll remember all the disparaging things you said or quirks you pointed out about his grandma and he'll probably be VERY angry and resentful, possibly even accusing you of *wanting* her dead. 

Even if he doesn't go that route, he's going to be a basket case, unable to function or think about anything but his overwhelming grief - like where does he go from here?  Does he have the skills to get a job?  Will he need to go to college or trade school?  What does he want to DO with his life? 

He probably won't have a clue - do you want to wait around and pay the bills, while he sits on his butt, playing video games and calling it, "figuring out my life"? 

Or he could go into a deep depression, and wind up breaking up with you because of that, or other factors - he wants to be on  his own, with no ties, he needs time to find himself and figure out who he is as a person, or he's just sick of  you being around, when you were nothing but unhelpful when it came to grandma.

I just don't this ending well, PS, for you, as a couple. 

If you were my BFF, I'd advise you to cut your losses and start forging ahead, on your own.  Your BF is perfectly content, taking care of grandma - so leave him to it, get YOUR life together, and hopefully, you'll meet somebody in the future who has no problem putting your needs *first* - or sees your needs being equal to their own. 

You deserve somebody who loves you for *yourself* - and doesn't put you down for not being a farmer, or having a degree - or any other reason that's germane to you being you.

Somebody telling me they don't like my shirt is one thing -but somebody telling me I'm not intellectual enough, or I need bigger boobs - TOTAL deal-breaker - and that includes ignoring me for his grandmother, refusing to utilize healthy boundaries, and letting me know that I will always come LAST in his life. 

It's true - they have their own Dysfunctional Dance and it's quite elaborate.  Only they know the intricate steps, and how the dance works.  The only thing you can do is watch from the sidelines, trying to cut in, but *they won't let you* - and the dance is so complicated, you'd only muck it up, which will upset *both of them* and cause them to be angry with *you.* 

I'm not saying you have to make any snap judgments or decisions, but *please* take an honest look at your situation, and start considering whether it's time to move on to greener pastures. 

I think it is, before he's SO consumed with her care (if she's a PD and he's letting her get away with murder, that's pretty much a given!) that it takes up *all his time.*  Every waking moment - and even interfering with his sleep, which will disrupt your life and sleep, too.

In a situation like this, I'll choose me, every single time.  I'll save myself, and leave them to it.

At least with myself, I know what I'm getting. 

[psychology.student]

Thank you for all your advice.
I think me and my BF finally broke up. Me and my parents weren't allowed to go to picnic because grandma's brother was going to be there and he mustn't know my BF has a girlfriend. If he knew, they wouldn't get any money from him anymore and they desperately need it. I refused to tell my parents they aren't allowed there. I just couldn't do this to them so I told them there was no picnic.
I was really angry with my BF and I wrote him a couple of messages where I said he and his family aren't normal and they belong in mental hospital. I also said his grandma did the bad job raising him as a child. Then he showed those messages to his grandma. They both called me on the phone and I refused to answer it.
Today my BF and I started to talk again. Everything would be just as usual and we would get along just fine, if he hadn't said that grandma doesn't allow me to ever come at their house ever again.
It's the same pattern as with his mother and stepmother. At some point, when they had enough and said something bad about grandma, they were kicked out and never allowed to this house again.
Why can't we be together if we want to? This house is crazy! She's crazy! She's a monster!!
I know my BF won't be able to be without me because he still calls me before going to sleep and during the day, but what if grandma never calms down and she finally ruins our relationship? I think about leaving all this behind and find someone new, but I find it so hard because I've been with this BF since I was 14.

[SerenityCat]

You can leave all that abusive craziness behind. You can enjoy freedom. You can find someone new.

As WI said, this guy and his grandmother are in an elaborate dysfunctional dance. I personally would have to completely walk away from them.

I actually think at this point that he himself is abusing you. He is enabling grandma and even doing her psychological dirty work on you. That is abusive.

Part of growing up includes letting go of old patterns, people, behaviors, sometimes even how we wear our hair. My guess is that if you claim your freedom and walk into your new life, you may find it eventually easier and more fun than you currently think. 

[WomanInterrupted]

I agree with Serenity Cat - what else did he think was going to happen when he tattled on you to grandma?  He *knows* what happens - people get banned - so he *chose* to have you banned from the house, yet still expects a relationship with you!? 

That's nuts - and abusive, in that he's *enabling her* to treat you badly.   

Just because you've been with him since you're 14 doesn't make it True Love.  It makes it a *bad habit* I'd advise you break, so you can go on with the rest of your life, while he stalls in his, caring for grandma.   

I think that's his chosen vocation, and she'll probably be around for many, many years - well, he can have her, while you succeed and thrive, widening your circles instead of having them grow smaller and more
insular. 

Think about this - if my DH and I want to go out for pizza, we just *go.*  We don't have to check with anybody, we don't have to ask permission, and we don't have any relatives determined to make it impossible, because it's not about *them.* 

We just GO - and that's the kind of healthy relationship I'd like to see you in, eventually - once you work on yourself, get your bearings, and put a period to the boyfriend who is more like a ball and chain, and has already let you know you come dead-last in his  life.

Somebody who claims to love you never puts you last - they put you on equal  footing  where your needs matter just as much as theirs.

I think you've outgrown him - and I think he'll be *fine* without speaking to you during the day, or before he goes to bed.   Grandma will see to that, by keeping him busy with her endless wants, needs and complaints.

You deserve SO much better than to *settle* on a man with only his grandma and getting money from relatives as a career path  - and very little else, outside those two things.

[qcdlvl]

If you stay with him, what's the endgame? His GM could live for years, even decades. And even then, there's a high chance she'll then immediately become in his eyes St. Grandma of the Perfect Order of Martyred Saints, and you're the sinner she said wasn't good enough or whatever for him, the one who tried to lure him away from St. Grandma. Or he could find someone else to take her place instead of acting like a proper adult. Or he could just have a breakdown, having built his entire identity around GM.
Yes, you're right that you're not respected by either of them. It's nothing personal I think - any partner would be a threat to his GM's control over him, everything else is just an excuse. If you had a different degree she's mock that, if you didn't have one she'd mock you for not having one. As for him, he's made it abundantly clear that GM comes first, and the fact that GM knows when to declare an emergency means he's feeding her information as to when to sabotage your plans. He could just keep GM on an info diet, but instead he gives her ammo to use against you. When a partner is giving someone else ammo to sabotage the relationship, then the real problem isn't GM, it's your bf. Do you really want to be the third wheel in your own relationship until GM dies, with the very real possibility of things getting worse rather than better when that happens?

[Pepin]

I think you've outgrown him - and I think he'll be *fine* without speaking to you during the day, or before he goes to bed.   Grandma will see to that, by keeping him busy with her endless wants, needs and complaints.

This all the way.  The only person in this 3 person relationship that grew was you.  You are likely the only one that has and is experiencing pain as a result.  You fought and stood up for yourself and what you believed you deserved to have.  If anyone wins, it is you.

It is very sad that your boyfriend is in the position that he is in because of his grandma....but only he can extricate himself if he *wants* to.  He doesn't know any other way and despite all the seeds you have planted, he didn't want to change - therefore, he never grew.  His grandma sounds like a horrible and selfish person and I hope that karma takes care of her in the end.  She has been getting away with hurting those around her for too long.

[Poison Ivy]

qcdlvl, I privately refer to my ex-husband as "D[his name], patron saint of martyrs and deserters."  Thus, I like your name for this grandma.