Struggling with boundaries around angry outbursts

[scaredwithfaith]

I've struggled with this for years with my UNPDH.

Let's say I set a boundary around his angry, blaming, HURTFUL outbursts when something triggers him. The boundary is that when he yells at me, I exit the conversation and/or take some space away from him. Leave the house, play with my kids, do something else, etc. The healthy thing to do, right?

Here's where I get stuck:
Once I do that....THEN WHAT??
Once I take my time away...how do I "come back"? Do I act like nothing happened? Do I maintain Medium Chill until enough time that I feel I can warm up again, with a guarded heart?
(If he made a repair attempt, I would receive it openly and clean the slate. But he doesn't.)

I've read the recommended scripts: "We'll  talk about this when you can speak to me with respect" or something.
Then walk away.

And then....??? Do I just return to normalcy once my husband's panties are no longer in a bunch? With no acknowledgement of the harsh words he said? If it were my child, I'd say yes. Clean slate.
Is that the advice to use with my PD?

Often I'm so hurt or angry at the injustice and the disappointment at being spoken to that way, that I *want something else from him* before I can reconnect and move forward with him. I'm working on this. I did a great job with that last night. He yelled at me in bed, (he felt rejected and like I "don't trust him" as we were starting to get sexual), so I went downstairs to sleep. So today I purposely decided to move on without mentioning it (contrary to my old patterns). I thought this was the right tack, until suddenly he bit my head off (I'm guessing because he was still upset about last night). I told him I don't like being snapped at, and he said "get over it."

So now what? Walk away...give him space...don't engage....take care of myself....yes. And then, when I'm with him?

How do I even BE around him when he has hurt me and he won't face it?

If there is no repair (and perhaps I shouldn't expect repair if the boundary is for ME and NOT him), then how and at what point do I reconnect, re-engage?

Or, what do I do for myself while we're apart (as I set the boundary I guess), to heal from the hurt without anything from him?

Any insight?

[Samuel S.]

I struggle in the same ways you do! It's a damm if you do and damm if you don't. My T says to take care of myself and put up an imaginary shield to counter such toxicity. There's a singer that sings a song about healing from a gun shot and that you cannot put a bandaid on it and expect the hurt to go away.

Your trust of him has been blemished big time! Your PD isn't mature enough to know how to be an adult emotionally.

When such toxicity comes your way from him, you need to do what's right for you. I wish there would be one answer that cures it all, but they are complicated individuals who don't and won't understand logic. It is their way or the highway.

Hugs to you!

[Whiteheron]

I think that you did a great job enforcing your boundary. If (when) he comes back to let you have it, leave the room. Each time he starts in on you, leave the room. This will send a strong signal. If you can't leave the room, then MC. I've even asked stbx "are you done?" then went back to whatever I was doing before he entered the room, or went to fold laundry (something bland and uninteresting).

When I started enforcing boundaries with stbx, he didn't handle it well. He was astounded that I would act any differently than I had in the past (therefore I was up to an affair or something equally nefarious). When he would come back and try to get me to join him in his endless circular blaming conversations where I ended up at fault, I would grey rock and MC like nobody's business. This caused him to change tactics. He was so desperate to get the desired reaction out of me, he tried everything he could think of. Thanks to this board I was onto his behavior and recognized what he was doing. I did slip up and JADE a few times, but the more you do it, the easier it gets.

[scaredwithfaith]

thanks so much.

The difference with mine is that he WONT keep coming at me. He will just let it go. Either be grumpy or act normal. And I'm justifiably bothered, but he doesn't seem to care. And we never address either his poor behavior, or the topic that was at issue in the first place. He just moves on and expects me to move on, letting him verbally spew at me with no consequence.

Part of what has me stuck, is how much I *hate* when we're in conflict. I just want to rush to kiss and make up, rather than stay in the negative atmosphere of cold silence and sulking. I always want to "get us back on track."

So—When you committed to refuse to engage, did the topic just eventually get dropped and fade out? When and how did you feel ready to reconnect and get back to "normal" with your PD (meaning, no hard feelings or conflict in the way)?

Were you able to just emotionally recover from the hurt and frustration, without ever addressing it with your PD? I can't help but feel like if I move on and act normal, I'm letting him get away with it.

I should aim to give up any hope of receiving an apology, discussion about the deeper feelings/causes, or even a nonverbal repair attempt from him.

It's my emotional hope in wanting the love back, that keeps me asking "now what?" After I enforce a boundary.

[notrightinthehead]

Of course you want the love back after a blow up. How did you get it back in the past?
It sounds like you hope your h's behaviour will change with the new enforced boundaries.  It might not, though.
If in the past he yelled at you and then expected you to snap out of it, move on and be normal again, he might continue to do so.
Now you are trying to do something for yourself - remove yourself from a situation where you are being treated disrespectfully. That's the boundary. You leave because to stay will cause you emotional or physical harm.
Afterwards you would like to talk about it and explain your behaviour to him, in the hope that he understands your point, apologizes, you forgive him and he does not do it again.  Has that worked in the past? Have you been able to change his behaviour?
Probably not.
I found it hard to accept that I could not change my NPDh's behaviour. Once I stopped trying and concentrated on what I could do to cope with my own feelings in our situation, I found the answers to how to act after a blow up. I did whatever I needed to do to make myself feel better.

[ICantThinkOfAName]

This so much.  This has me shaking my head.  I too have put up the boundary and walked away.  Whereas in the past, we would duke it out and it would be a big blow up.  He'd storm out, I'd feel bad and then we would come back together and he would apologize and I would apologize and everything went back to normal.  Now that we don't have the faux resolution, I never get an apology.  Nor do I give one.  I have found myself resenting him and realizing that the drama we had with the fights was really the only thing keeping the relationship alive.  I just find myself hurt and angry with nowhere to put it and no way to move past.  I'm also angry with myself for allowing this treatment in the first place.  Now that I don't want that drama, it appears that the relationship will die.  Whereas before, when he was able to get me to bow down and scamper for his approval, he would be nice and tell me wonderful things about myself.  Now that he has no power, he has no interest in being nice. 

I've even gone so far and thought, well I should be the first one to extend the niceness right?  So I tell him nice things about himself.  Like wow you are really good at blah blah blah.  He just takes it and runs.  Well yeah I'm good a blah blah blah because blah blah blah and me me me.  I've been doing this for a while now.  And I'm not seeing any improvement. 

I feel like I'm at the doctor's office being told this relationship has only 2 months to live and I'm trying to bargain with the doctor.  Well surely there must be something we could do?  I need to do the humane thing and put it out of it's misery. 

[Whiteheron]

So—When you committed to refuse to engage, did the topic just eventually get dropped and fade out? When and how did you feel ready to reconnect and get back to "normal" with your PD (meaning, no hard feelings or conflict in the way)?

Were you able to just emotionally recover from the hurt and frustration, without ever addressing it with your PD? I can't help but feel like if I move on and act normal, I'm letting him get away with it.

The topic would eventually fizzle away because I let it. I refused to bring it back up, if he brought it up again, he got the same reaction. In my case, stbx was rapidly spiraling downward and there was no true reconnection or getting back to "normal." Because "normal" was me being his verbal punching bag and I refused to play that role anymore.

I did often feel like I was giving him a free pass (I still do to this day). It took me a long while to realize that he was thriving on my reactions to his abuse, and by refusing to engage I was depleting him of a major source of supply. So it felt like a free pass, but it really wasn't. Did he realize his behavior was wrong and that he should apologize and never do it again? No. That was never going to happen, and when I realized this, it was a very hard pill to swallow.

I was not able to emotionally recover from the hurt and frustration, because he kept going at me time and time again. There was no logic, no reasoning behind his words and actions. My brain struggled to make sense of any small piece of what was going on. I kept coming up empty.

There were a few times I tried to sit down with stbx and address what he'd done, but it ended up a circular blaming "conversation" where his words/actions were caused directly or indirectly by me.

I feel like I'm being such a downer, but in my case there were too many years of damage (20+) and he was getting much, much worse. I stayed until I was emotionally drained and literally could not do it anymore. my stbx was incapable of repairing any damage he'd done, because in his mind he did what he had to do and I had put up with it for 20+ years, so it shouldn't have been a problem (he actually said that in front of his T, as if it was justification that everything was ok and I was creating problems where there were none).

[1footouttadefog]

Several things play out as in these stories.  The same truths emerge.  Not always, and not all, not always, bit a pattern exists.

The non tolerates more and more over the years.  They give more and more.  Over time they get less and less and emotionally they are starved for intamacy.  In some cases they are also starved for physical intamacy while in other cases physical is demanded or expected despite unresolved arguments, and non existant apologies for abuse.

The reconnect happen less and less. The apologies dont come or are not sincere.  Blame, circular arguments and abuses are to be simply dropped, forgotton and no emotional consequences are to exist.

The nons have been devalued like a toy that has been set a side.  The toys owner sees the toy to be played with as he or she sees fit.  Lets play fighting today.  Oh wait someone they want supply from is watching lets play nice guy, now they want time for another toy or hobby they put the old one back on shelf.  Wait the toy is not doing its robotic work for them and its stedford wife training is faltering they train it some more.  The program that has worked for all these years is not taking training.  They try more and more intense training.

Eventually the toy has had enough and they try to retrain the trainer, this does not work amd they have decisions to make.

Over and over  the stories play out on this site.  And I amd others need to see this so we dont feel insane when we see it in our homes.

[vonmoot]

I've married for years.  Boundaries are a major struggle because she knows my pressure points very well.  Generally, the wife is very tenacious.  She will want to keep bring up the situation ad nauseum...unless it's something I'm bothered by.

Anyway, it is rare that we resolve a situation in a fair, equitable manner.  Either we fight like cats and dogs or the issue fizzles.

[livinginmyhead]

I used to try and act like nothing happened and it usually worked as far as moving on and ending the stupid circular conversation or argument outburst or whatever.

It's hard to go away and come back though.  To have to pull yourself away like that for your own sanity and
protection and then try and come back and act like everything is normal....  after a while I just couldn't do it any more.  I can't let him back in with a guarded heart.  The back and forth and ups and downs hurt way too much.

He finally went too far and I absolutely slammed a wall into place and for the rest of my life that wall is NOT ever going to come back down.

I am polite and civil.  That's all.  I'm no longer putting my heart and soul out there.  I'll take care of him when he's sick and I might even pamper him a little bit if he isn't too prickly but I definitely don't love him like I used to.  He's family but he's not my best friend, lover and companion.

He may be nearing  the end of his life and he wasted so much time playing mind games and being an abusive control freak to cover up his own shortcomings.  We could have done and built so much together.  We could have had so much fun.  What a waste.  I don't really hate him anymore for how he treated me.  I have more pity for him than hatred.

The back and forth just tore me up after a while.

It was healthier to just put up the wall and be done with it already.  Leaving would have been the healthiest thing to do but I'm not in great health and I'm old enough that I can't just get any old job and start over.  Putting up the wall was the best I could do

Once I put up that wall, I worked on building me back up because I almost disappeared trying to appease him and keep the peace.

I concentrated on long forgotten hobbies, cooking, cleaning, canning, gardening, fixing things, learning new things, saving money, thrifting and finally being fully present for my daughter.  The busier I stay and the more distance there is makes manipulation easier to see and far less painful to realize/deal with.  I feel like I'm a much healthier person now.

Don't worry so much about the other person.  Take care of yourself so you don't disappear.  If you disappear you might get very bitter and angry.  If the person you are with can't face or admit what they've done and move on and work on things and be decent don't worry about trying to "come back".

You're not getting their best-why should you give them yours?

If the person you love refuses to act loving in a consistent healthy manner it is very critical that you love yourself enough to protect yourself from the emotional damage.

[1footouttadefog]

lIMH,

I could have written much of what you wrote word for word. 

It almost describes my situation with pinpoint accuracy.

Took me a few tries with the wall however. Y pd was trying different meds over a two year period so there remained hope and I would let the wall come down when things were better for a while.

At some point though up it went to stay.  My od is now a roommate at best.  He has no emotional connection with me.  He only epresses his emotions as they pertain to his wants and needs.

I am supposed to robotically supply.

[livinginmyhead]

It really is better with that wall up, unfortunately.

I used to struggle with guilt once in while and had great difficulty coming to terms with the fact that we were NEVER going to have that happy camaraderie that normal married people have.  It took so long to give up and let go of the hope for that and then there was this period of grieving.

Sometimes I still think I'm kind of a cold youknowwhat but it has to be this way for everyone.  It works and it's the only thing that does.

He's in the hospital right now after having a mild heart attack.  I went to see him a few times and helped him shower one day because it's the decent thing to do and I'm his wife and that's the kind of thing wives do.  I look at it like a job and I suppose I'm happy enough just puttering around here and taking care of him as long as he can act halfway decent and reasonable.  He also has breathing issues from cancer about ten years ago so I don't know where he found the strength to throw fits and yell and all of it...

He hasn't done that quite some time but it's probably because he's liable to literally die trying.  My daughter and I figured it out the other day that his health issues are the probably the only reason he hasn't blown up in a while.

Anybody else probably would have cut and ran years ago.  He doesn't have much family that can care for him and I don't want to financially devastate him.  Geez, why do I even care anymore?

He's supposed to be getting out of the hospital today.  I'll be glad to bring him home in spite of it alland again if he doesn't get too prickly I'll probably try and even pamper him a bit.  It's just how I'm made.