And here. We. Go. Round 2 with maternal grandmother

[DaisyGirl77]

UBPDGM is in her mid 80s, I think.  I noticed about 5 years ago that she was starting her decline, & her behavior while there, uh, left much to be desired.  In short, red flags waving everywhere.  A two ton bull would have a virtually impossible time of *missing* one of those flags.

She's lived with one of her children for the last 20-25 years.  The first two have passed of cancer in various flavors.  This third, my aunt, also has cancer (suspected ovarian, no idea the stage until she sees an oncologist tomorrow on that & her treatment options).  This particular cancer has caused multiple blood clots on both sides of her brain.  UBPDGM has no idea this aunt has cancer.  They've told her it's fibroids, with a possibility of it being something more.  Otherwise, she'd go Full Metal Waif (TM to WI).

Ain't nobody got time for that.

GM can't live independently anymore.  That was made clear when assorted relatives made the trip up to pack up Auntie for her move into her daughter's house, where she's closer to world-class cancer specialists & doesn't have to travel 2+ hours each way for treatment.  GM is digging in her heels at the thought of leaving her dead son's house...which she's been evicted from by his estate 15 times over 6 years.  She has a hoarding problem as well.  She refuses to sort through her dead daughter's things, let alone disburse them to her four children.  Instead, she's chosen to live in La La Land, declaring she is 100% fine & can handle everything herself.

This house sits on an acre of land, partially wooded.  She cannot handle the day to day responsibilities of maintaining the house or the yard.

At my suggestion, a couple cousins placed a call to APS.  They've got a few ideas from them that they're implementing with uBPDGM.  GM is now insisting she can sort through this hoard, pack what she wants to keep, & organize a yard sale, all before...September 1st.

I'll join you in your laughter.

At the moment, she's left to her own devices after wailing to DD#3, "I have nowhere to put these boxes!"  Her daughter:  "Figure it out."

So...  I've been around this before.  I've already laid my boundary of helping from inside my extremely comfy shark cage:  My house.  I cannot handle being in the midst of this storm like I was last time.  I'll be completely useless, frozen in dissociation & panic attacks galore.  Nope.  Not happening.  What else can I do to help my uBPDGM from here?  I've offered to place calls for my cousins if necessary, & be a general source of support as needed...

AND they're desperately looking for ideas for their mother as she cannot remain under her daughter's roof for longer than a week.  She's also uBPD, so she's a real peach.  Now that she's sick, here comes the queen.  So ideas re: rehoming her somehow...  Is there a Home for the Possibly Terminally Ill Where uBPDs Go to *sobs* Die?   Ideas on how to light a fire under uBPDGM's ass?  Perhaps an actual fire?  LOL.  Kidding, I think.

All joking aside, all ideas are welcome.  I'd love to help my cousins out with more concrete suggestions on managing both of these uBPD relatives.  Thanks!

[WomanInterrupted]

When it rains, it pours!  I'm so sorry!

What I can best advise you to advise your cousins is emulate you:  now that APS is involved, stay in the shark cage, with their hands and feet inside!   

Advise them NOT to go to The Lair - not even for an hour a week.  IIRC, your grandmother is prone to violence, and they don't want to get stuck there, in the event a social worker decides she *can't* be left alone, meaning you're basically stuck until you can get somebody to relieve you, and in unBPD Land, good luck with *THAT!*   

Yes - one of them can be *trapped there* as a virtual prisoner, until relieved by another person. 

Social workers will try to motivate anybody and everybody they can find numbers for to go over and be her *caregiver.*  Just an hour a week, to do laundry, they'll suggest, and the only answer to be had to that is NO.   

They'll write down unwilling, even if you can prove it's impossible, because FOG is the only weapon they have.

I told social workers to write down any damned word they wanted, it changed nothing and the answer was still NO. 

Your cousins need to be firm:  NO, we can't do a thing, and *yes* it's okay if they start blocking numbers.  Just because they called APS, doesn't mean they want to be caught in the crossfire - or have anything to do with your grandmother. 

If social workers won't quit, I'd suggest your cousins throw out this gem:  "Some people don't have relatives.  That's how you'll have to proceed - by pretending we don't exist - and doing what you'd do for people who have nobody.  That is our FINAL decision.  Do NOT call again."   

If your cousins stay out of it, what I think will happen is somebody from APS will pull rank and decide she  has to go to the hospital, because her house isn't safe.   The ER will  probably admit her, and APS will close the file because she's in a safe environment.

Enter the hospital social worker, who will be *totally* clueless about what's going on, other than your grandmother needs to go into AL - or rehab, for the time being - because her insurance won't pay for her to stay beyond X days, if she's got a only minor problems, or is only there for a rehab admission - this person will want the financials NOW.  RIGHT NOW.   

They need the disclosure to place her, which can be faxed to the social worker, who will then find her a bed, and anybody who is still talking to your grandmother can tell her it's only "temporary" - until she's well enough to go home, without actually telling her she's *never* going home.   

There's a couple of other things that can happen, too:

1.  APS decides her house isn't *that* bad, and just keeps making repeated visits, to see that she's okay, while "encouraging" her to hire aides or go to AL, and APS just waits for the day she falls, or has a health issue, to get her admitted to the hospital - if she even lets them in again.   

2.  She gets to the hospital, the social worker speaks to a psychiatrist, and that psychiatrist then speaks to your grandmother - the psychiatrist will NOT be impressed or fooled.  There's a good chance she could be declared incompetent - and that is the BEST thing that can happen!   

Whomever is POA can take it from there, and if nobody is, or wants to be?  She can be made a ward of the state - but the hospital will still need the financials, to place her, *however* if nobody is POA, nobody will be able to write checks on her behalf.

Your cousins will need to discuss that with the rehab, if that's the case.

If your cousins *want* to be POA - they can hire an eldercare attorney that your grandmother pays for (they can pay out of their own account, and write a check to reimburse themselves), and they'll also need to ACT to keep your grandmother compliant - she's going to be in the rehab for a while, and they want to be able to pay her bills for her, so the lights and heat are on when she gets home.   

That was the crock I fed unNPD Ray, to keep him compliant.   

The best things  they can do are staying in the shark cage and working behind the scenes with Team Authorities - including acting *surprised* when your grandmother rails that somebody called APS on her.

What she doesn't know, won't hurt her.   

As for cousin's mom (did I get that right? She's a daughter of the aunt with ovarian cancer?), what she can do, if her mom is hospitalized for treatment, is to tell the social worker, "She CAN'T COME BACK TO MY HOUSE!  She will HAVE to go to rehab, and back to the hospital for her treatments."   

The rehab is a SAFE PLACE.  And yes, again, they're going to want financial disclosure.

If the cancer is too advanced, her mother can be moved to a Hospice Facility if your cousin *refuses* to have her back. 

If you know the system, you *don't* have to be stuck with them.   

Ah, the PD FOO - a gift that just never stops giving.   

[DaisyGirl77]

Thanks, WI.  This isn't my dad's mom, who's violent.  This is my mother's mom, who isn't violent.  She was an extremely neglectful mother to her children growing up--so much so that her children have all said they raised each other.

I can't really write more than that (exhaustion & no time to really write more), so I'll absorb the rest of your post at a later date.

[DaisyGirl77]

Now that I've got a bit more time, here's the update:

Paternal grandmother has been in an all-in-one facility since late last year, I think.  (I tend to tune out a little when Dad starts yammering about her.)  She had had a visiting nurse come by to care for some post-procedure medical issue & she called my father saying her cupboards & fridge were practically bare.  He bawled her out & then said he'd be starting the process with her doctor to put her in a nursing home.  Not the one she wants, where her husband died 20 years ago, oh no.  A special one that's closer to where he lived at the time.  She threw a fit.

It's super fancy:  They have a PCP who comes in at scheduled days during the month for him to see all the patients with appointments that day.  All other specialist appointments (including vision & dentist) are bussed out.  According to him, her mask fell in early spring, I think?.  The staff there is now making notes of her explosions to give to the in-house PCP & psychologist to then proceed with...?  Who knows.  *shrugs*  But I was practically gleeful that I'm now being doubly vindicated that these explosions I experienced have been witnessed by both my father & by multiple staff at that home.   Take that, toxic family members, & everyone else who said I was lying.

*ahem*  Anyway, onto my maternal grandmother:

As far as I know, she is still puttering around my dead uncle's house.  I 100% doubt she will have gotten nothing packed by September 1st, & quite possibly have unpacked the three boxes she & uNPDM packed together last weekend.  In fact, I strongly suspect she will have made the house MORE of a disaster the next time someone goes up to visit as this is the way uBPDGM is.

UBPDGM, to make this more confusing, has 4 living sons & daughters scattered across ~250 miles & several states.  The closest relatives (Sick Aunt's daughter & her husband) are a good 2 hours away from her.  Her first two children, a son & daughter, are both dead.  One uncle is an alcoholic with a perpetually flushed face.  The other uncle is a farmer.  Sick uBPD Aunt is an employee at a chain grocery store.  The other daughter (uNPDM) is the equivalent of a social worker for people with specific disabilities.

The family secrets are coming to light.  UBPDGM loathes her oldest grandchild as she views her as the thing that stole her (dead) son away from her.  She's made it crystal clear through various actions she's taken--some of which were the final nails in the coffin for my cousin--that she'll do anything & everything to prevent this cousin from getting what's rightfully hers.  Including the house she's been evicted from 15 times in 6 years.  Because it belonged to her dead son, who she believes is in the highest heaven possible for...somehow erasing the intergenerational mistakes/sins/whatever nonsense she's decided is now the truth.   (Apologies to all who are members of this particular religion who recognize this belief system.  I generally tune out uBPDGM when she kicks up on her religious nonsense so everything is pretty hazy to me here.)

UBPDGM also sexually abused at least two of her three sons when they were children.  Farmer Uncle says he was abused by both her & her husband #1 for quite some time during their marriage, before they finally divorced.  Alcoholic Uncle is the one who was sexually abused by her, & she admitted to it during a vicious confrontation between them, witnessed by uNM, a few years ago.  She practically ignored her daughters, leaving them to raise each other.  All had 7 outfits:  Monday-Saturday, & Sunday best.  Any extras they needed, like deodorant & razors & things, they needed to pay for themselves as uBPDGM couldn't.  So they ran wild most of the time until they could find whatever work they could get.  All of them were abused by...less than savory people.

So none of them are willing to do much.  All of them have very little patience for her nonsense, which kicks her up into high gear.  "But I don't underSTAAAAAAAAAAAAND" is her go to phrase, & she'll loop it until someone snaps at her & she waifs into everyone else's ear--including spouses of the person who'd just snapped at her, "But I don't underSTAND.  Wasn't _person_ mean to me?  Can you talk to them?"

Anyway, sorry for the derail.  UBPDGM is a handful at the best of times.  Sick Aunt went for all her tests on Thursday & all results won't be in until probably Wednesday.  We're all on tenterhooks with the waiting.

I did a bunch of research into home healthcare options in uBPDGM's area & gave that to everyone in the family group text.  One cousin had the nerve to point out that "uBPDGM doesn't need hospice."  Well, no shit, Sherlock, but practically ALL HHC options quite naturally have hospice.  As you do, when someone's old.  Because EVERYONE is going to need hospice. *rolls eyes so hard they circle the universe before they pop back into my eye sockets.*  Of course, I didn't say it quite that way... LOL.

More stories are certainly to come.

[WomanInterrupted]

You wrote:  The staff there is now making notes of her explosions to give to the in-house PCP & psychologist to then proceed with...?  Who knows.  *shrugs*  But I was practically gleeful that I'm now being doubly vindicated that these explosions I experienced have been witnessed by both my father & by multiple staff at that home.

Who knows?  I do- or at least, I'm pretty sure I do.   

They're probably going to start testing her competency, regularly.  Of course, not being stupid, she's going to figure out what's going on, and if she's in a mood, might start giving snappy answers to stupid questions, like UnNPD Ray.   

She also might try working her own agenda, and answering *her own questions* - just like unNPD Ray.   

A psychiatrist took his sarcasm as "delusions" and "hallucinations" and his agenda as "confabulations" and "grandiosity."

Yup - Ray got himself declared incompetent, just by being himself.   

Ray hasn't used the right words as long as I can remember.  It started when I was a kid, with a simple goof, and he'd get angry, insist he SAID that, or we misunderstood him, or that's what he *meant.*

Ray's only language is English, so it's not like he doesn't know the words.  He misuses them, confuses them, then gets ANGRY.

Over the years, it got MUCH worse and became word salad, where, "Get me that bookcase!"  could have many different meanings, which were mostly situational - Ray could want something ON the bookcase or near it, he might want coffee, or it might be his way of telling you he's going to the bank. 

Problem:  UnBPD Didi and I understood him *perfectly* but it's no good when one of your translators is dead, and the other is Sir Not Appearing In This Film. 

Still, Ray got to rage at the hapless recipient of his gibberish because his WIFE and DAUGHTER understood him, so what the hell is YOUR problem? 

Ray CAN use the right words - after his fall, that landed him in the hospital (and later the memory care unit), Ray reamed me out and didn't misuse a SINGLE word.   

He just doesn't WANT to and THAT  is what got him labeled as a *violent psychotic* by the nursing home (he kept threatening to kill his roommate - NOT misusing words  then slipping back into the comfort of word salad, and getting pissed that nobody was taking the time to *figure out what he really meant*) - and based on what I told them about misusing words starting a LONG time ago, they said Ray has probably been *psychotic most or all of his entire adult life!*   

And SUDDENLY, my childhood made a hell of a lot more sense!   

The CHILD was the only sane person in that house!   

So...in comparing your grandmother's moods and discussing them with a psychologist, they might be getting ready to slap a psychiatric diagnosis on her, so they can medicate and *control* her.

So I'm pretty sure one or both of those things is going to happen - dementia and a psychiatric diagnosis, or just a psychiatric diagnosis.   

But yes, the VALIDATION is amazing!   

If *they're* having that hard of a time with her, what the hell were you, a mere mortal, supposed to do on your own!?   

They will go to amazing lengths before they'll even consider bouncing her to another facility - and I want to be CLEAR that she will NEVER land on your doorstep, with somebody ringing the bell and running away.

I lost too much sleep over that thought, so I wanted to put it right out there. 

If they can't manage her, it'll be up to your dad to go down the list of facilities they hand him, contact them, and find out which have beds available.  They'll probably be halfway across the country from her current location, and it'll be HIS responsibility to get her there  - and she will NOT like the conditions of   a geriatric psychiatric  wing/facility.  (The pics I've seen look more like prisons, and I *think* Ray's older brother might BE in one.  )

As for your maternal grandmother - anybody who doesn't WANT to help her, *DOESN'T HAVE TO.* 

NOBODY in your entire FOO  HAS to do anything except say, "That's not possible.  Don't call me again." - and start blocking the numbers of social workers like crazy.   

The *only* person who can do anything is the person who owns your grandmother's house - they can legally evict her, which takes time, requires at least court appearance, and will probably involve the police escorting her from the home, on the final day.

You said she's been "evicted" before - if you meant a LEGAL eviction and she just came back, the *homeowner* will have to change the locks, board up the windows and make absolute certain she can't get back into the house, or the homeowner will get to do the same damned thing, over and over again, unless the homeowner wises up and has her *arrested* for B&E.

If you meant "evicted" as  "was given a verbal to leave and just never did" - a LEGAL eviction and follow-through  will make sure she's gone - and where she goes from there is up to HER.   

Nobody can force her to do a thing.  If she wants to live in her car, she can do that and *nobody is responsible for that  except HER.*

If she waifs at anybody still talking to her, they can suggest a hotel, a homeless shelter or the ER - and DO NOTHING ELSE. 

Yes - anybody who wants to walk away CAN, and tell *any* social worker, from any agency, to go pound sand - YOU figure it out.  We want NOTHING to do with her.

There IS a safety net in place for people like your maternal grandmother - and none of you needs to do a thing, if you CHOOSE not to.

She'll never pack her things - and probably DID unbox everything that was packed the previous weekend.  If the homeowner follows through on having her evicted, she'll probably wind up leaving with a car full of miscellaneous crap, while RAGING as the police  escort her  to her car.

It will be up to the *homeowner* to take a stand, get the crap out of the house (and hopefully not listen to her bleats of  NEEDING and WANTING certain items), get the house up to code  -and do whatever they want with it. 

[doglady]

Oh DG77, I do feel for you. Your grandmother definitely sounds waaaaay beyond your, or any other family member's, capacity to deal with, and she should be given a very wide berth.
As ever, Woman Interrupted's clear, sensible and well-researched answer maps it all out. Some great advice there. Hope it all works out.