successful strategies for break-up conversation?

[Scarlet Runner]

I have come to the point where I feel I need to break up with my uPD boyfriend of 20 years. We've been on-again off-again during that time and I've tried (ultimately unsuccessfully in any permanent way) to end things many times in the past. My situation is fortunate in many ways, we don't live together (in fact he hasn't even been to my place for years) and there are no kids involved.

I am emotionally terrified to have this conversation because I know the possible things he may say. I have no fear of physical abuse, but he has a history of talking and talking and talking until I agree with him, or apologize or both. In historical break-up conversations he has:
(1) told me I'm just afraid to take a hard look at myself and fix my patterns which have created all the pain in our relationship
(2) told me I have to stay because he can't heal without me (again about me admitting the ways I have wronged him)
(3) e-mailed me for months  with his own reflections about the relationship and his growth (but not apologies per se) until I accepted contact again (I had my phone number off during that time and did not respond to his e-mails)
I'm also concerned that he may decide to drive to my place in his desperate desire to communicate with me.

I have been maintaining distance for the past few weeks after two episodes where he verbally escalated and I calmly walked out of his place and left. I have not returned his phone calls and minimally acknowledge his texts saying I'm not ready to talk to him. I know he will want to focus any conversation we have around my "emotional abandonment" of him. I know he is not doing well these past few weeks, suffering from anxiety, probably panic attacks, and possibly inability to even function at work (which I worry about for him).

Ideally I would like to handle this in as compassionate a way as possible, as I do still love him. I know that advice is often given to not worry about the PDs emotions and reactions, but I have a hard time accepting that I would need to do something in a cold or detached way. It seems cruel to me, especially to someone who is already suffering so much. Maybe others have insight into this that I do not understand and can help me to understand differently.

I guess I am looking for any advice or courage to face and conduct this conversation.

[Scarlet Runner]

And now even as I write this I get texts from him saying he wants to apologize for his behavior. I understand hoovering is a thing. But it is so hard for me to call it that when I know the truly loving and sensitive and compassionate person he has the ability to be.

[Poison Ivy]

I have a few suggestions.  Other people might have better recommendations.
1) Unless you have reason to think your boyfriend might harm you, have the conversation in person.
2) It is okay to have the conversation in a public or semi-public place but preferably one where you will not be overheard but can be seen by other people. 
3) If you do have reason to think your boyfriend might harm you, have the conversation over the phone.
4) I think it's respectful to have this particular conversation without a support person's presence. But safety trumps respect, so have a person with you if you think doing so is necessary. (I think it's great to have a support person in other parts of the process. For example, my brother accompanied me to the final divorce hearing. But by that time, everything basically was public.)
5) Prepare yourself for hoovering (or more hoovering). 
6) If you don't bring a support person, do tell a trusted and trustworthy friend or family member what you're planning to do. I think it's helpful to do so because that person can provide moral support before and after the conversation. Also, the person can provide reinforcement, e.g., "You can do this!" "I've got your back." "Call me when it's over." "I'm here for you." 
7) You could rehearse with someone.  If you do this, encourage that person to act like you think your boyfriend will act during the conversation.  E.g., "Please pretend to be really upset and then try to suck me back in."

Good luck!

[Scarlet Runner]

Thanks Poison Ivy for your thoughts.

I tried today to end things over the phone (therapist agreed this was ok). It went horribly. Somehow at the end of 9 hours of going around in circles (mostly him trying to get me to see how it would be so easy for me to just admit my flaws and we could be happy), we are still not broken up and we're both still a mess (him worse than me).  It ended on how I'm responsible for him not being able to function at work (might lose his job) or complete a major financial transaction (where he might now effectively lose a lot of money). Just thought I'd update since you were kind enough to respond to my first post. I'm scared for him and scared for how to proceed as well.

[Poison Ivy]

Nine hours on the phone?  Oh, dear.  You do realize that you're not responsible for him not being able to function at work and you're not responsible for him not being able to complete the major financial transaction, right?  He is responsible for himself. 

[SerenityCat]

I'm sorry that you are going through this Scarlet Runner.

Nine hours of circular conversation is way too much. One way you can now look at this is that you tried that, it did not work, you live and learn, time to do something else.

It sounds like he is being abusive.

You should not have to admit any supposed flaws to him. You are not responsible for his well being. You really aren't.

He needs to get help, for himself.

You can simply end the relationship. You actually don't need his agreement. Taking a stand for yourself is not being cold or cruel. Even if he claims that it is.

You need to choose your own health and happiness. By doing so, you are a potential role model to him, although that isn't really anything to discuss with him. He can be inspired by you taking care of yourself, or not.

You don't have to stay stuck. You don't have to wait for him to be different before you leave. You don't need his permission nor do you need to wait for a sign.

You say that you are scared for him, have you told your therapist this? Your therapist can help you figure out a plan of action. For instance if your boyfriend sounds like he is a danger to himself or others, you can call the police. You can also call the police if you think they need to do a welfare check.

I'm glad that you have a therapist. That can help quite a bit.

Remember, you are not your boyfriend's therapist. You are not his social worker, life coach, or minister. His problems are above your pay grade and not appropriate for you to try to solve anymore.

You are not making him lose his job. You aren't interfering with his ability to do financial transactions. If relationship issues are making his life difficult currently, that is his responsibility. He needs to make the changes that work for him.

You may not be able to ever make him happy. I encourage you to take responsibility for yourself, claim your own well being, and enjoy a new life.

[SerenityCat]

Nine hours on the phone?  Oh, dear.  You do realize that you're not responsible for him not being able to function at work and you're not responsible for him not being able to complete the major financial transaction, right?  He is responsible for himself.

[Scarlet Runner]

Thanks again all. Hearing these affirmations is helpful to me seeing things more clearly and not feeling crazy.

My therapist is great - I chose her because she specializes in PD. I've seen her for 2 years to even get to this point of trying to see his problems as his problems. I am not worried my bf will hurt himself or others. Just worried about the repercussions on his life because I care about him and his wellbeing.

I get sucked into these awful conversations almost every time by his emotions (which I feel I have been trained to feel responsible for, but logically know I'm not) and it often feels the only way out of a confrontation is to say what he wants to hear for him to deescalate. My weakness is being I get so uncomfortable at his emotions. I've ordered the book Emotional Blackmail, but have been able to preview some sections online. Its the classic six stages of Demand, Resistance, Pressure, Threats, Compliance, and Repetition. If I don't cave, the pressure stage lasts forever as what I call monologues  (From book: "At first he acts as if he's willing to talk over the issue but the discussion then becomes one-sided and turns into a lecture.") When I try to distance myself and/or block calls I feel even more guilt b/c this his worst fear is abandonment which is when he gets so bad he can't function. He does see a psychiatrist for medicine, but hasn't been for awhile that I know of. Also, I don't think she has him diagnosed correctly (last I heard she said cPTSD, but my therapist and I think maybe APD or BPD). 

Even harder is that I'd say what he does is even Spiritual Blackmail. (I thought about doing a separate post on just this.) We've both studied yoga, shamanism, meditation, and really try to live these practices (and I see that he does with others in his life). It's hard to understand that someone I see as being a good, decent person is treating me in not a good decent way. His pressure takes the form of "You're not acting out of love. You're not being open to the truth. The spiritual Scarlet Runner would see that there is only one answer that is the truth. You're hurting yourself by resisting." And tells me that his actions are love b/c love doesn't let someone continue to hurt themselves. It sounds so crazy as I write it, but when it happens I feel so much doubt about what is "the truth". Even harder is I know he actually believes he is acting from a place of love.

Serenity Cat - thank you for all your clear words. They are so helpful. I will reread them again as needed to help maintain clarity.

[SerenityCat]

When I try to distance myself and/or block calls I feel even more guilt b/c this his worst fear is abandonment which is when he gets so bad he can't function.

You did not cause it.
You can't cure it.
You can't control it.

https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/the-3-cs-rule

No matter what he says, you are not causing his dysfunction. And even if you were, it would still be up to him to make positive changes that do not involve you. He needs to work his own recovery.

You cannot cure him. No amount of talking with him will fix this. What you can do is work on yourself.

You can't control his feelings and behaviors. No matter how hard you try and no matter how hard he manipulates you.

When you feel worried and anxious about his well being - it is time to instead use that energy to work on yourself. Work on your stuff (not his): https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/understand-my-stuffyour-stuff

You are describing spiritual abuse also. This is yet another reason to stay clear of him.

Imagine if all the psychological/spiritual/emotional/verbal abuse was physical. What if all that abuse resulted in visible bruises? All abuse is abuse, it all counts. You may not see anything visible but you are still being affected.

You can continue to work with your therapist on how to stay completely clear of his abuse. You deserve safety and happiness. 

[Doggo]

Following.  I hear you--am going through nearly the same thing right now except we are married and he has no job. I hate to hurt him. But the alternative is hurt myself by letting him treat me this way. He makes a huge fuss about speaking my feelings, telling him what I want and feel--then pulls the type of crap you describe.  How is that remotely respecting me or being a good partner for me? Hope this helps.

[bohemian butterfly]

Scarlet Runner,

I'm sorry you are having to go through this. 

Per the spiritual part, I too worried myself to death about this (thought if I broke it off, causing pain, I would lose karma)

My therapist (who is into energy healing and other metaphysical practices) looked me square in the eye and said, "you being kind to yourself, by letting him go, not only teaches him a spiritual lesson, but I firmly believe that you just increased your karma because you are now starting to love yourself."

You have a kind and loving soul.

I hope that helps and brings you some peace.   It is not evil or bad to let someone go. 

[Scarlet Runner]

Thanks everyone for all the support. It really helps. Truly.

I just made an update in another post.