Eldeley Dad - not helping himself with "new" things

[p123]

Sure hes not the only one. I'm sure its a bit of a game with him too because if you make his life easier it takes away part of his power I think.

But, honestly, its like the 1950s in his head sometimes.

- Wont use a mobile (cell) phone). Theres no need for them, waste of time.
- Wont use a washing machine. Too complicated. Umm you press a few buttons, and its not like the old days.
- Won't use a taxi/cab. Too expensive and not for people like us. These days taxis are affordable for us peasants!
- Home grocery delivery. Don't like it no point. OK then I'll drive 50+ mile instead shall I?

Don't get me started bout furniture. Pre-1st world war furniture is rarely in good condition.....

And dont his "cheapness". He is clueless. Got thousands in the bank but thinks everyhing is expensive.

His latest thing. I shouldn't have told him I know. Wanted to know how much I paid for childcare for my daughter during the holidays. £36 a day. He went on for ages about it how I had more money than sense and how it should be about that for the week. (yeh right someone is really going to look after you're kid for £7 a day!!!).

It never once crosses his mind that I cant got to work if I can't get childcare so its going to cost me a LOT more than £36 in lost income!

Like I said, sometimes I think - OMG just wake up and get real but then I wonder if hes cleverer than that and playing stupid to get an advantage....

[Pepin]

Like I said, sometimes I think - OMG just wake up and get real but then I wonder if hes cleverer than that and playing stupid to get an advantage....

Yes...he is playing you like a deck of cards by "pretending" to be helpless.  They all do this.  PDmil is the same way though she can operate a washing machine.  Has a cell phone but only knows how to answer it -- and has no interest in anything else about the phone including voicemail, settings, texting, etc. 

Her helplessness is nothing more than a cry for attention from others.  Doesn't want to be a big girl and put her panties on one leg hole at a time!  DH speaks so highly of her until it dawned on me that he is actually talking about himself and others that over the many years have been doing all the work for her while she takes the credit.  PDmil does not do anything on her own.  She has needed help for decades -- and what is sad is that even though she has been shown how to do basic things that most adults can do, she doesn't remember it. 

Is it really that hard to service your car on your own? 
Get a new roof? 
Get the grass cut? 
Go to the bank and take out money? 
Go through mail?   
Grocery shopping? 
Haircut?

OMG, these are all things that seem to require some one else to "help" her with that have been this way for a very long time.

Same thing about the furniture and carpets....all from the 60s.  Thinks everything is expensive.  Has no idea how much things cost other than food at the supermarket...it is actually very sad.

[Andeza]

Mhmm, sounds familiar. uBPDM still has a flip phone, that way she can't text properly if you get my meaning. The smart phones were too hard to use with her arthritis... Yeah, that doesn't make any sense to me either, especially when she has a tablet that she uses just fine.

She barely takes care of her house and moans that no one helps, but won't ask anyone for help either. I'm 1600 miles away, I sure as heck ain't doing it.

Won't learn how to properly take care of a laptop either. Last time we visited I spent five hours digging a virus/trojan horse out of her registry because she downloaded some stupid photo program without vetting it or running a virus scan. Told her next time she messes up her laptop I'm not fixing it. Now she complains it doesn't work but won't explain what exactly that means "It just doesn't work." Okay then. Neither do I 

It's the hypocrisy that really kills me. She hasn't been out to visit her even more elderly mother in months, despite the availability of getting a ride with her sister who lives with my M and goes to visit GM once a week. Then she complains that I never visit? Irony. Karma maybe? Take your pick I think. 

I finally decided I don't really care. Sounds awful, I know, but I'm guilt free and living my life and caring for my FOC that love me unconditionally. It's much more rewarding. M won't help herself, I'm not helping her either. Any attempt to do so would be ignored anyway, so what's the point? Why keep giving of myself when there is no sincere interest or even gratitude? That only leads to heartbreak, exhaustion, health problems for me that I really don't need...

She'll figure this stuff out on her own, or she won't. I have peace.

[Phoenix Rising]

Really feel you on this.

One annoying behaviour NPDgran does is give a couple of $20s for a $150 grocery list.. even though she knows my financial situation and she knows how much food costs now. Doesn't ask either, more of a demand. One time, I just got what I could with the $40 bucks and boy was she p'd!! Not good enough? Oh well, go do it and pay for yourself

NPDgran is totally stuck in the past but I think she acts like that to get everyone to do her bidding. Now that my dad is dead, her behaviour is even worse. Dad used to do everything for her.. now she gets belligerent when no one has time to take her to the bank or church. There's telephone banking.. the teller can help set everything up. Church? Take the bus.. ask someone from the church. 

She'd complain about no one helping all the time, so I'd help and she would either complain or decide that it needed to be redone  THEN she'd complain that she had to redo it. I remember the "Back in the old days" comments when helping her too about how kids did everything their parents told them or how so and so did things the right way. Really? It's 2019, do it yourself then.

I don't care if it sounds cold but I'm happy to be 6000+km away and I don't answer her calls now. I have accepted that it's OK for me to not want contact or to do what she says. The whole "I'm old and don't understand how today works" crap doesn't work on me anymore.

[p123]

Oh yes its infuriating. I just think you could make things so much easier for everyone by just making a little bit of effort. Sometimes I wonder if he actually likes things a bit screwed up.

The money thing is crazy. He was telling me the other day how much brother got a new job and said "£100 a week - good money". What? (£100 is $125 BTW). Minimum wage for 17 years is like £8 an hour.

He asked me recently how much childcare cost in the school holidays. I didnt want to tell him and have no idea why he wanted to know. £36 Dad. He then went on how £36 A WEEK was daylight robbery and I must be mad to pay this. Yeh Dad someone going to look after you're kid for £7 a day aren't they? I couldn't resist telling him it was £36 a day - he almost fell over. Basic economics though. Stay home and look after child - save £36 but get zero pay. Pay £36 but earn a LOT more than this. Isn't it obvious?

Same with fuel for the car. "How on earth can you afford £85 to fill the car up?" (Yeh is not the US where you lucky lot have cheap gas!) How on earth do I get to work then Dad?

I think I've said before I'm an IT consultant. Self employed. No work no pay. So no sick, holiday pay etc. Dad is CONSTANTLY telling me to get a proper job or don't take ANY holidays because it costs money. The fact that I get paid more than 3x what the person sitting next to me does sort of makes up for this but he just can't comprehend. I always trot out "I'm sure when my kids grow up, they'll remember where we went on holidays, not how often Dad was in the office or how much money he made". You can tell what my childhood was like!

[Phoenix Rising]

Ahh they LOVE to use siblings to snidely criticize your choices in work, family, etc.  NPDgran uses other grandchildren and uncles/aunts' successes against me.. more of a "why can't you be like them?" Like her puppet I guess?

NPDgran has always been really obsessed about her house and material possessions. I can understand not being handed down anything but isn't family just as if not more important that things you can't take with you when you die? 

My therapist and I talked about having empathy for her wounded inner child.. And well I do but it doesn't mean I have to stick around and be the scapegoat, or put up with crap behaviour that hurts me. She can get her supply somewhere else

[p123]

Ahh they LOVE to use siblings to snidely criticize your choices in work, family, etc.  NPDgran uses other grandchildren and uncles/aunts' successes against me.. more of a "why can't you be like them?" Like her puppet I guess?

NPDgran has always been really obsessed about her house and material possessions. I can understand not being handed down anything but isn't family just as if not more important that things you can't take with you when you die? 

My therapist and I talked about having empathy for her wounded inner child.. And well I do but it doesn't mean I have to stick around and be the scapegoat, or put up with crap behaviour that hurts me. She can get her supply somewhere else

I've had more than one person notice this trait of his...

Dad worked in a factory all his life. Brother does similar sort of thing. Me - completely different - I work in IT in an office.
So, what does Dad do? Tell EVERYONE how hard brother works, does long hours blah blah blah. I never get a mention.

In Dads head, if you work in an office you're a manager (Im not). And as such you're not really working hard like the "real" workers. Its SO obvious the way he is.

I remember him once mentioning that I got paid "for doing nothing" when I did on call/standby 24/7. Its not much though! Then I remember working 24 hours solid after an emergency and him asking me why I agreed to work that long because it sounded really awful. Yes, you've noticed Dad I dont get paid for nothing after all!

[Phoenix Rising]

Ugh yeah that behaviour is really awful. It feels worse (atleast to me) when they do it and then call on help from you... it's like, wait, I thought I was just a peasant making very little. Why would I have any money? 

All the women in my family except myself and another aunt are nurses. Basically I'm nothing cause I don't work in that field.. aunt works in an office but she works downtown and blah blah (aka still a "good job" in NPD eyes) .. I think they are secretly jealous and possessive in the way children get over toys their friends have. The freedom being self-employed brings... they hate that you work with what doesn't fit in their box of perfect but there they are trying to reap the rewards! In this case being readily available in their eyes.

[Hazy111]

Yes their bizarre rituals  and beliefs.

My father resisted all attempts to persuade him when younger (in his 50s/60s/70s) to buy a better car , ie power steering and an automatic, electric windows even!. It was like driving a tank. He could afford to but was so stubborn .  I remember him telling someone that X had a Mercedes! Like it was the most extravagant thing. The guy he was talking to had one.

He sold me his previous car (I know, people think this is strange but i thought it was normal, until it was explained it wasnt. Its normal for PD.)

It was his money and not the families. He spent it as he saw fit. Although my mother worked!! He controlled all the finances and gave her weekly allowance. CONTROL. He kept a book of all financial incomings and outgoings , like a ledger which he checked against the bank statements. CONTROL. Unsurprisingly this all stopped when my mother died.

He has a mobile phone now , but doesnt use it. Im glad in a way he never became IT savy as he would, as so many on here would attest , bombarding me with emails facebook or whatever. Anyway to maintain contact.

He was careful with money all his life and has a good pension now, better than a lot of peoples regular income.

Taxis were absolute no no when we were kids . Too expensive.  Now he uses them every day. The alternative  would be a mobility scooter , a No No thats for old disabled people, though he is old and disabled. Or being pushed in a wheelchair. Again a No No, unless absolutely necessary. 

All is explained by his  narcissism shining through , " im not like others , inferior, im superior". When he talks about other old people its like they are a separate species.

[p123]

Yes their bizarre rituals  and beliefs.

My father resisted all attempts to persuade him when younger (in his 50s/60s/70s) to buy a better car , ie power steering and an automatic, electric windows even!. It was like driving a tank. He could afford to but was so stubborn .  I remember him telling someone that X had a Mercedes! Like it was the most extravagant thing. The guy he was talking to had one.

He sold me his previous car (I know, people think this is strange but i thought it was normal, until it was explained it wasnt. Its normal for PD.)

It was his money and not the families. He spent it as he saw fit. Although my mother worked!! He controlled all the finances and gave her weekly allowance. CONTROL. He kept a book of all financial incomings and outgoings , like a ledger which he checked against the bank statements. CONTROL. Unsurprisingly this all stopped when my mother died.

He has a mobile phone now , but doesnt use it. Im glad in a way he never became IT savy as he would, as so many on here would attest , bombarding me with emails facebook or whatever. Anyway to maintain contact.

He was careful with money all his life and has a good pension now, better than a lot of peoples regular income.

Taxis were absolute no no when we were kids . Too expensive.  Now he uses them every day. The alternative  would be a mobility scooter , a No No thats for old disabled people, though he is old and disabled. Or being pushed in a wheelchair. Again a No No, unless absolutely necessary. 

All is explained by his  narcissism shining through , " im not like others , inferior, im superior". When he talks about other old people its like they are a separate species.

Dad has got £40K in the bank but his carpets are threadbare and his furniture falling to pieces. I've given up trying. His answer "when I was younger we were poor so I don't like wasting money". His idea of wasting money is spending even a penny of it on ANYTHING.

I always tell him "no prizes for richest person in the graveyard".

[Phoenix Rising]

"I always tell him "no prizes for richest person in the graveyard"

That is brilliant.

I'm wondering, does your father or anyone else's PD family member here act like they don't have money or access to money/credit? As a way of playing to their age, being the "victim" and helpless? E.g. They need a repair done so they run to you and use the age card instead of using their own funds or credit to pay

[p123]

"I always tell him "no prizes for richest person in the graveyard"

That is brilliant.

I'm wondering, does your father or anyone else's PD family member here act like they don't have money or access to money/credit? As a way of playing to their age, being the "victim" and helpless? E.g. They need a repair done so they run to you and use the age card instead of using their own funds or credit to pay

Every single time.......

In the past he's expected me to travel for 2+ hours to collect him from hospital rather than pay £10 for a taxi.....

Also, it seems hours of my time and money equal about 30 seconds of actually thinking for himself and making a little effort.

[p123]

Been trying to get around the "you'll have to visit I've got no food in the house" scam. Don't get me wrong I will visit but I hate this blackmail. Its like a game to him.

He asks me to visit and do grocery shopping for him. He asks for about £20 worth of stuff (I buy £40 he moans). I bought him a chest freezer which he deliberately keeps empty (otherwise thats his number one blackmail issue gone).

So I said "Look Dad its crazy to have a chest freezer about 10% full. The stuff will last for ages".

He now swears blind he didn't know you could put things in the freezer (frozen food anyway!) and it keeps for weeks..... Even when I pointed out that, yes, it says how long frozen things keep good for. (Not sure if USA is the same but its star ratings for freezer and we're talking months generally).

"Oh I still don't want to do that. It might go bad. So to be on the safe side, I'll only put things in there a few days max".

Are you kidding me????

[Hazy111]

Youre comment about the fridge/freezer just triggered me.    My Dads' is always packed to overflowing and me my sister constantly throwing sell past food out. Most of it never opened , its shameful. Literally thousands of £S, but he doesnt care and he always insists on the best cuts etc, no rubbish for him, the King.

Bit of course its about his narcissism and control. He always insists my sister shops every week for him on the day that suits him.  He has  had meals delivered but he always cancelled them , horrible, come at wrong times, etc  and of course he has NO CONTROL ..........

[p123]

Youre comment about the fridge/freezer just triggered me.    My Dads' is always packed to overflowing and me my sister constantly throwing sell past food out. Most of it never opened , its shameful. Literally thousands of £S, but he doesnt care and he always insists on the best cuts etc, no rubbish for him, the King.

Bit of course its about his narcissism and control. He always insists my sister shops every week for him on the day that suits him.  He has  had meals delivered but he always cancelled them , horrible, come at wrong times, etc  and of course he has NO CONTROL ..........

Dad is opposite - fridge is empty as well. He hates spending money in one go because hes so tight....

Talking about waste. Hes the other way. You can't bin anything even if its moldy because "its a waste".
We went away for the weekend. He ate half a pasty (I guess you're from the uk). Left it in my car - it was a hot day. He planned to eat it the next day otherwise "it'd be a waste". I went mad. We had a 2-3 hour drive home and I was not dealing with the fallout of him getting food poisoning.

Dads same with meals on wheel. Don't come time he wants etc.

[Phoenix Rising]

"I always tell him "no prizes for richest person in the graveyard"

That is brilliant.

I'm wondering, does your father or anyone else's PD family member here act like they don't have money or access to money/credit? As a way of playing to their age, being the "victim" and helpless? E.g. They need a repair done so they run to you and use the age card instead of using their own funds or credit to pay

Every single time.......

In the past he's expected me to travel for 2+ hours to collect him from hospital rather than pay £10 for a taxi.....

Also, it seems hours of my time and money equal about 30 seconds of actually thinking for himself and making a little effort.

Ugh so relatable. 

[p123]

Think I've worked Dad out a little and how he is....

Even when he was younger he was not really someone who'd sit down and think "right how can I solve this?". He'd take the easy option, make assumptions, and, if possible, let someone else do it. I've only realised now as I've got older. A few examples:-

1. When he got divorced when we were young kids, didn't get a mortgage because "he didnt want to get into debt" instead got a friend to pull strings for him to get a council house (social housing) in a bad area.
2. Never learned to drive. Why bother just get others to cart you around? We lived miles from other family.
3. Washing machine. Never got one - its womens work. Used to carry a suitcase with washing in to his mothers a mile or two away every sunday.

I'm the opposite. It sounds crazy to me that you wouldn't make the effort to find the best option.

BUT even as an adult he was REALLY mollycoddled by his mother and later on his older sister. They did has laundry for him.

As hes got older, hes needed more and more. I've battled in the past with getting things done in the house for him (his amazing ability to not spend money doesnt help). He just will not consider an easy option. He wants things done and he wants someone to do it for him.

I guess this is what hes done all his life...

[1footouttadefog]

There is a difference between being cheap/selfish and being frugal.

I had an elderly friend born in the second decade of last century.  He also complained about new higher prices and kept his old stuff etc.

But unlike a pd could be brought up to date when needed.  We would have breakfast together at a little local place.  I hated that he would tip so little on his turn to pay.  I gently brought it up to him one day.  I asked him how much a gallon of gas and a pack cigarettes cost.  He answered and I reminded him that wait staff only made 2.12 an hour and depended on tips.  My friend was a smoker who liked to drive and smoke for relaxation, and I chatted about how would feel to work a shift and not be able to buy a pack of smokes and a gallon of gas to pick kids up from school and to go grocery shopping, and to the post office with. 
Having empathy he realized he had not kept up with the times and started tipping well. 

The old food thing was a habit of miserly narcissistic aunt of my h's.  She was the stingiest most selfish person I have ever met.   She was so cheap she kept all  her kitchen cabinet doors open for 15 years so she would not have to hire someone to change the hinges.  Yet she tracked to China , Europe, and other places every other year.

[p123]

There is a difference between being cheap/selfish and being frugal.

I had an elderly friend born in the second decade of last century.  He also complained about new higher prices and kept his old stuff etc.

But unlike a pd could be brought up to date when needed.  We would have breakfast together at a little local place.  I hated that he would tip so little on his turn to pay.  I gently brought it up to him one day.  I asked him how much a gallon of gas and a pack cigarettes cost.  He answered and I reminded him that wait staff only made 2.12 an hour and depended on tips.  My friend was a smoker who liked to drive and smoke for relaxation, and I chatted about how would feel to work a shift and not be able to buy a pack of smokes and a gallon of gas to pick kids up from school and to go grocery shopping, and to the post office with. 
Having empathy he realized he had not kept up with the times and started tipping well. 

The old food thing was a habit of miserly narcissistic aunt of my h's.  She was the stingiest most selfish person I have ever met.   She was so cheap she kept all  her kitchen cabinet doors open for 15 years so she would not have to hire someone to change the hinges.  Yet she tracked to China , Europe, and other places every other year.

I would saying being cheap is having plenty of money but not spending it because you want to keep if for some reason.

Don't get me started on tipping. OK in the UK its sort of 10% not like the USA. Still Dad will want to tip a £1.
Hes caused some scenes in restaurants. I went once and he was chasing the waitress around (rather than leave it on the table) and pressed a pound coin into her hand. It was SO embarrassing.

[p123]

Things this week:-

1. Hands free mobile/cell use in the car. for the probably 2000th time he decided to give me a lecture about how I'm not supposed to use a phone while driving. I have literally explained 2000 times!

2. As far as hes concerned the "internet" is just a marketplace for 2nd hand stuff. I've told him and told him - you can buy goods from pretty much every shop. Nope he "doesnt want 2nd hand rubbish off the internet",.

3. Working from home. Wish I'd never started this one. but "how can you do work from home?" "who is making sure you're doing work?"